| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 11:57 - Feb 14 with 2162 views | No9 |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 07:54 - Feb 14 by Steve_M |
The whole recent 'debate' on Churchill has been facile point scoring that makes the politics threads on here look balanced and mature. Churchill is a massively contradictory figure, one that might benefit from (more) serious historical analysis but that is too much like hard work clearly.
Good thing there is nothing catastrophically important going on at the moment that politicians and media commentators should be concerned with. |
When I started work Churchill was still alive.
I soon learned that among my new colleagues he was not a popular person in any way but more often reviled. There were many popular jokes about him & his charachter which would now be considered unpleasant & very non PC.
Times change & often history gets re-written |  | |  |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 12:05 - Feb 14 with 2158 views | Championship |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:55 - Feb 14 by lowhouseblue |
because to someone like mcdonnell a class myth from 100 years ago is justification enough to avoid saying anything positive about ANY tory. he lives in a simplistic cartoon world of good and bad that hasn't changes since his grandparents were about. |
No9 is McDonnell?!?! |  | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 12:34 - Feb 14 with 2131 views | Clapham_Junction |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 11:09 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
No he didn’t.
From the BBC “At a Politico event, when asked to give a one-word answer on whether Churchill was a hero or villain, the shadow chancellor said: "Tonypandy - villain".
You think Churchill is a villain? Wait until somebody tells you about the bloke he beat. [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 11:35]
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On that basis, is Stalin also a hero?
All this nonsense seems to prove is that binary definitions of people like this are a bit stupid.
Here's what McDonnell said when he was given the opportunity for a nuanced answer:
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-14/john-mcdonnell-calls-winston-churchill-a-vil |  | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:00 - Feb 14 with 2112 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
My favourite little known Churchill fact is that like Thatcher his sh1t didn't stink.....a quite remarkable, yet exclusively Conservative, trait. |  |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:31 - Feb 14 with 2091 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:55 - Feb 14 by lowhouseblue |
because to someone like mcdonnell a class myth from 100 years ago is justification enough to avoid saying anything positive about ANY tory. he lives in a simplistic cartoon world of good and bad that hasn't changes since his grandparents were about. |
Have you ever said anything positive about Corbyn? |  |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:34 - Feb 14 with 2083 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:18 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
We live in an age where the leaders of the Labour Party condemn Churchill as a villain yet praise their “friends” in Hamas and Hezbollah, say we should “honour” members of the IRA for their “bullets and bombs” and name “Lenin and Trotsky”, who were responsible for the mass murder of political opponents and inaugurated many of the communist state’s dictatorial methods, as their “biggest influence”.
Stop the world I want to get off. |
Can you provide me with the link where the Labour Party leaders have praised the bombs of the IRA? | |
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| on 13:34 - Feb 14 with 2083 views | _ |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:04 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Since the election he has been doing his best to portray himself as the moderate and acceptable face of Corbynism. But in the last few days he’s been making moves towards the hard left in the Labour Party.
Perhaps he’s doing the groundwork for a leadership election.
If people think Corbyn has some dodgy views and associations, McDonnell is a real bad bastard. |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:37 - Feb 14 with 2079 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 11:09 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
No he didn’t.
From the BBC “At a Politico event, when asked to give a one-word answer on whether Churchill was a hero or villain, the shadow chancellor said: "Tonypandy - villain".
You think Churchill is a villain? Wait until somebody tells you about the bloke he beat. [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 11:35]
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Why was he asked to give a one-word answer? | |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:37 - Feb 14 with 2079 views | lowhouseblue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:31 - Feb 14 by BrixtonBlue |
Have you ever said anything positive about Corbyn? |
not intentionally no. I had contempt for him long before you even knew he existed. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:43 - Feb 14 with 2059 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:37 - Feb 14 by lowhouseblue |
not intentionally no. I had contempt for him long before you even knew he existed. |
No worries. I've made my point. You expect others to see nuances but don't adhere to that yourself.
There's a word for that... | |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:44 - Feb 14 with 2050 views | No9 |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:37 - Feb 14 by lowhouseblue |
not intentionally no. I had contempt for him long before you even knew he existed. |
Why?
Apart from the fact you are a right winger
You must have some sensible reasons? | | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:46 - Feb 14 with 2043 views | No9 |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:04 - Feb 14 by Guthrum |
It's an old Labour myth - "Churchill ordered the army to shoot striking miners". That never happened. The army didn't shoot anyone in South Wales in 1910. The myth was reinforced by pictures of Churchill with armed police and soldiers at the Sidney Street Siege the following year.
It was a particularly vicious industrial dispute, however. Including riots, battles with the police and, in the aftermath, considerable emigration from the area. The period before the outbreak of war in 1914 was a difficult one, economically. |
Tonypandy wasn't an isolated incident tho' was it? | | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:47 - Feb 14 with 2043 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:34 - Feb 14 by BrixtonBlue |
Can you provide me with the link where the Labour Party leaders have praised the bombs of the IRA? |
John Mcdonnell: “It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA. Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands, we now have a peace process.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/18/john-mcdonnell-apologises-for-i
Jeremy Corbyn: When asked about his standing for a minute's silence in honour of a gang of IRA men who died while trying to blow up a police station "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for a united Ireland".
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:49 - Feb 14 with 2027 views | baxterbasics |
You can understand someone of McDs politics to disapprove of heavy handling of a strike. It's one of the (many) reasons he would also class Thatcher as a villain. But his total ignorance of historical context and disregard for Churchill's wartime achievement is plainly silly, and typical of a hard leftist. |  |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:50 - Feb 14 with 2020 views | No9 |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:47 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
John Mcdonnell: “It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA. Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands, we now have a peace process.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/18/john-mcdonnell-apologises-for-i
Jeremy Corbyn: When asked about his standing for a minute's silence in honour of a gang of IRA men who died while trying to blow up a police station "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for a united Ireland".
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You have done this to death GB.
& as always there are two sides to every story, you will not accept that | | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:51 - Feb 14 with 2016 views | baxterbasics |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:50 - Feb 14 by No9 |
You have done this to death GB.
& as always there are two sides to every story, you will not accept that |
Not everyone got the memo. He was asked to provide a quote and did so. | |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:53 - Feb 14 with 2007 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:50 - Feb 14 by No9 |
You have done this to death GB.
& as always there are two sides to every story, you will not accept that |
I was asked to provide a link by somebody and I did the courtesy providing one. [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 13:53]
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:53 - Feb 14 with 2005 views | No9 |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:51 - Feb 14 by baxterbasics |
Not everyone got the memo. He was asked to provide a quote and did so. |
DOes that cover all or part of the history of Ireland? | | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:56 - Feb 14 with 1987 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:53 - Feb 14 by No9 |
DOes that cover all or part of the history of Ireland? |
I wasn't asked to write a dissertation on the history of Ireland. Just tom provide a link of McDonnell prasing the bombs and the bullets of the IRA. | |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:57 - Feb 14 with 1981 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:47 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
John Mcdonnell: “It’s about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA. Because of the bravery of the IRA and people like Bobby Sands, we now have a peace process.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/18/john-mcdonnell-apologises-for-i
Jeremy Corbyn: When asked about his standing for a minute's silence in honour of a gang of IRA men who died while trying to blow up a police station "I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for a united Ireland".
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Cheers for the context. I won't defend what McDonnell said other than that it was one comment made 16 years ago, for which he has unreservedly and "shaking with emotion" apologised.
But why frame it as 'the Labour Leadership' making these comments? We know why don't we? You want them to rub off on Corbyn, even though he said no such thing.
The Corbyn quote I've seen. It's nothing to do with bombs so not sure why you've included it here*. It's a man basically saying it's horrible that people died fighting for a united Ireland. Which it obviously is.
*I do know really. It's part of the smear campaign.
Do you think you'll ever get out of the gutter in regards to politics and talk about actual issues and policies? I never thought you'd get out of the Tory Party, so I guess there's hope. | |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:59 - Feb 14 with 1975 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:51 - Feb 14 by baxterbasics |
Not everyone got the memo. He was asked to provide a quote and did so. |
He also provided an irrelevant quote in order to smear. | |
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 14:03 - Feb 14 with 1964 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:57 - Feb 14 by BrixtonBlue |
Cheers for the context. I won't defend what McDonnell said other than that it was one comment made 16 years ago, for which he has unreservedly and "shaking with emotion" apologised.
But why frame it as 'the Labour Leadership' making these comments? We know why don't we? You want them to rub off on Corbyn, even though he said no such thing.
The Corbyn quote I've seen. It's nothing to do with bombs so not sure why you've included it here*. It's a man basically saying it's horrible that people died fighting for a united Ireland. Which it obviously is.
*I do know really. It's part of the smear campaign.
Do you think you'll ever get out of the gutter in regards to politics and talk about actual issues and policies? I never thought you'd get out of the Tory Party, so I guess there's hope. |
I said Labour leaders not the leadership. McDonnell is one of the top people in the Labour party.
The Corbyn quote has nothing to do with bombs? He made it whilst honouring IRA bombers who were thankfully shot dead before they could murder more people with their explosives.
You asked for the quotes - I provided them. [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 14:11]
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 14:11 - Feb 14 with 1946 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:59 - Feb 14 by BrixtonBlue |
He also provided an irrelevant quote in order to smear. |
Still wearing those smear glasses Dollers?
[Post edited 14 Feb 2019 14:12]
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| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 14:13 - Feb 14 with 1937 views | No9 |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 13:56 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
I wasn't asked to write a dissertation on the history of Ireland. Just tom provide a link of McDonnell prasing the bombs and the bullets of the IRA. |
OK< that isn't clear as the bit seems to be about the object of your fascination - Corbyn.
But I don't read anything there that suggests he was gloryfying the IRA or prasing their bullets.
I am not an IRA sympathiser but having worked with a number of people from the R.o.I i do appreciate there is more than a few lines in a right wing newspaper behind the 'troubles' | | | |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 14:21 - Feb 14 with 1921 views | BrixtonBlue |
| John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 14:11 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Still wearing those smear glasses Dollers?
[Post edited 14 Feb 2019 14:12]
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#gutterpolitics | |
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