| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 20:45 - May 12 with 2764 views | BackToRussia |
How can you be centre left if you think billionaires should somehow use their money to avoid paying more tax? |  |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 20:57 - May 12 with 2733 views | tractordownsouth |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 20:45 - May 12 by BackToRussia |
How can you be centre left if you think billionaires should somehow use their money to avoid paying more tax? |
I don’t? I think it’s ridiculous that millionaires are planning on upping sticks if Corbyn gets in |  |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:16 - May 12 with 2694 views | BloomBlue |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 20:57 - May 12 by tractordownsouth |
I don’t? I think it’s ridiculous that millionaires are planning on upping sticks if Corbyn gets in |
Lots of millionaires started with nothing but got there via sheer hard work and taking a few risks. A lot of them did things that anyone could do, maybe they think its not someone wants to take a lot of their money and give it to some people who want to sit around and do nothing. |  | | |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:26 - May 12 with 2684 views | Darth_Koont |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:16 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Lots of millionaires started with nothing but got there via sheer hard work and taking a few risks. A lot of them did things that anyone could do, maybe they think its not someone wants to take a lot of their money and give it to some people who want to sit around and do nothing. |
A lot of people work harder than most millionaires and struggle.
If you want everyone to get where they should through ability and hard work then you need to ensure the vast majority of opportunities and wealth don't get sucked into the stratosphere. |  |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:32 - May 12 with 2667 views | BackToRussia |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 20:57 - May 12 by tractordownsouth |
I don’t? I think it’s ridiculous that millionaires are planning on upping sticks if Corbyn gets in |
It's just you said the bloke was spot on and that's what he's said. | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:37 - May 12 with 2664 views | tractordownsouth |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:16 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Lots of millionaires started with nothing but got there via sheer hard work and taking a few risks. A lot of them did things that anyone could do, maybe they think its not someone wants to take a lot of their money and give it to some people who want to sit around and do nothing. |
Billionaires will have had access to education, which is paid for by the welfare state, so they should pay for it.
And as for the hard work argument, yes there are always going to be scroungers but they are the minority
It’s not about how important your work is to others, it’s about who the work is important to. I earn just above the minimum wage as a support worker for disabled people, who wouldn’t be able to function without our support but we only earn a small sum because it’s government subsidised and the people who we support are on benefits so we don’t get much. Whereas people working for hedge funds do nothing but make more money for millionaires and get huge bonuses. What’s more socially important?
Just proves that it’s about who the work is important to and not how important the work is | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:38 - May 12 with 2654 views | tractordownsouth |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:32 - May 12 by BackToRussia |
It's just you said the bloke was spot on and that's what he's said. |
It’s a video of Nawaz calling out those who want to leave the country if JC gets in | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:44 - May 12 with 2645 views | BackToRussia |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:38 - May 12 by tractordownsouth |
It’s a video of Nawaz calling out those who want to leave the country if JC gets in |
I haven't watched the video, but I have read the article which quotes him. He said he thinks Corbyn's critics shouldn't leave the country, they should spend money now (presumably with political donations and other financial lobbying) to keep the Tories in power so they can avoid paying any more tax than they already are.
I just found that an odd sentiment to agree with as any sort of leftist. | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:58 - May 12 with 2620 views | tractordownsouth |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:44 - May 12 by BackToRussia |
I haven't watched the video, but I have read the article which quotes him. He said he thinks Corbyn's critics shouldn't leave the country, they should spend money now (presumably with political donations and other financial lobbying) to keep the Tories in power so they can avoid paying any more tax than they already are.
I just found that an odd sentiment to agree with as any sort of leftist. |
That was part of the video but it was mainly focused on the point of people leaving the country. I don’t agree with the spending the money on keeping the Tories in part | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 23:37 - May 12 with 2529 views | bournemouthblue |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 20:57 - May 12 by tractordownsouth |
I don’t? I think it’s ridiculous that millionaires are planning on upping sticks if Corbyn gets in |
It's funny how this one always get's trotted out when we talk about the threat of the very rich actually getting taxed
In many cases the rich have already left or weren't here to start with
Look at all this massive tech companies who look to base themselves in the most convenient tax havens etc yet are happy to make money out our country without contributing their fair share?
The same people arguing that the rich will leave if we tax them don't want immigrants coming in 'stealing' their jobs and are actually contributing to our nation [Post edited 12 May 2019 23:40]
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 08:32 - May 13 with 2408 views | tractordownsouth |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 23:37 - May 12 by bournemouthblue |
It's funny how this one always get's trotted out when we talk about the threat of the very rich actually getting taxed
In many cases the rich have already left or weren't here to start with
Look at all this massive tech companies who look to base themselves in the most convenient tax havens etc yet are happy to make money out our country without contributing their fair share?
The same people arguing that the rich will leave if we tax them don't want immigrants coming in 'stealing' their jobs and are actually contributing to our nation [Post edited 12 May 2019 23:40]
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Indeed. Ironically, quite a few millionaires ( Tim Martin, Mike Ashley etc.) actually increase the welfare bill by paying their staff below the living wage too | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 08:44 - May 13 with 2394 views | Darth_Koont |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 08:32 - May 13 by tractordownsouth |
Indeed. Ironically, quite a few millionaires ( Tim Martin, Mike Ashley etc.) actually increase the welfare bill by paying their staff below the living wage too |
So Bloom was right. These multi-millionaires got where they are through hard work (mainly others' hard work) and taking risks (mainly others absorbing those risks). | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 09:12 - May 13 with 2374 views | hampstead_blue |
John McDonald was on Pinaar's politics on Sunday.
He openly said he would raise taxes and was in the slightest bothered about the capital flight.
He also wouldn't say just how much he would take from pensioner's, pension funds, et all, when he nationalises the water companies. His plan is to pay shareholders in bonds but won't pay fair or even face value.
Typically when a company is taken over the predator pays a premium. He is going to ony give people pennies in the pound.....
He stated that 'investors would want gov bonds instead of high income and growth shares'. His ideas were wiped out 60m years ago when T-Rex got hit by a big lump of space rock.
Lethal. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 09:32 - May 13 with 2352 views | No9 |
I heard something on the radio about that yesterday one of the comments was that the threat of billionaires to leave the UK for tax purposes was not the downer they think it is and some comments were, "take away their British nationality if they do" - so much poverty now people are losing patience with governments who bow & scrape to the super rich.
Dyson doesn't realise milloins of people in the UK can't afford to buy his overpriced (& not particularly good) stuff |  | | |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 10:45 - May 13 with 2314 views | hampstead_blue |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 09:32 - May 13 by No9 |
I heard something on the radio about that yesterday one of the comments was that the threat of billionaires to leave the UK for tax purposes was not the downer they think it is and some comments were, "take away their British nationality if they do" - so much poverty now people are losing patience with governments who bow & scrape to the super rich.
Dyson doesn't realise milloins of people in the UK can't afford to buy his overpriced (& not particularly good) stuff |
People like Dyson, whilst manufacturer overseas, create a lot of highly skilled jobs in the UK.
Dyson spends crazy sums on R&D and his set-up in teh West is a hub of amazing entrepreneurship
We need people like him to stay. Not leave. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 10:46 - May 13 with 2314 views | Guthrum |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:16 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Lots of millionaires started with nothing but got there via sheer hard work and taking a few risks. A lot of them did things that anyone could do, maybe they think its not someone wants to take a lot of their money and give it to some people who want to sit around and do nothing. |
A lot of them got there through sheer luck. Being in the right place at the right time with the money (either inherited or borrowed) to exploit new markets or gaps in existing ones. To make a fortune, you generally need to be in at the beginning of a new trend or technology.
They also all have that most vital skill of being excellent salesmen. The chutzpah to present their ideas and (particularly) attract backers is vital.
Once they had made the initial breakthrough, it is a lot easier to continue the roll, as people approach them with opportunities rather than having to dream up new things themselves.
True, they did work hard, but that effort would have counted for naught without the above factors in their favour. You don't hear about the thousands who flogged themselves to pieces but lacked the necessary finance or whose projects did not take root. |  |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 11:34 - May 13 with 2272 views | hampstead_blue |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 10:46 - May 13 by Guthrum |
A lot of them got there through sheer luck. Being in the right place at the right time with the money (either inherited or borrowed) to exploit new markets or gaps in existing ones. To make a fortune, you generally need to be in at the beginning of a new trend or technology.
They also all have that most vital skill of being excellent salesmen. The chutzpah to present their ideas and (particularly) attract backers is vital.
Once they had made the initial breakthrough, it is a lot easier to continue the roll, as people approach them with opportunities rather than having to dream up new things themselves.
True, they did work hard, but that effort would have counted for naught without the above factors in their favour. You don't hear about the thousands who flogged themselves to pieces but lacked the necessary finance or whose projects did not take root. |
I feel you have misrepresented the amount of sheer hard work, risk taking, and determination it takes to be as successful as the wealthy entrepreneurs.
Luck is but a small element.
Most people are not brave enough to take the levels of risk required to make it big. They are happy ticking along.
That's great, no criticism there.
Your points are wrong. Sorry but you've completely got it wrong.
Are you an entrepreneur? | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 13:03 - May 13 with 2217 views | Guthrum |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 11:34 - May 13 by hampstead_blue |
I feel you have misrepresented the amount of sheer hard work, risk taking, and determination it takes to be as successful as the wealthy entrepreneurs.
Luck is but a small element.
Most people are not brave enough to take the levels of risk required to make it big. They are happy ticking along.
That's great, no criticism there.
Your points are wrong. Sorry but you've completely got it wrong.
Are you an entrepreneur? |
I have been running my own businesses for the majority of my working life. I also had a role for several years which involved studying the very wealthy.
To be a highly successful entrepreneur, you need an opportunity, an opening. Preferably to be in at the start of some new thing or process which you can exploit. Think Branson with the changes in the music industry in the 1970s, then more competition among airlines, Sugar or the Microsoft lot with computers, Zuckerberg with social media, Lucas and Gosling with car parks, Green with the retail explosion of the '80s, the Russian oligarchs with the collapse of the Soviet Union. If you are not in that sweet spot, there isn't the space for the business to become huge. You need an eye to recognise the developing situation early and to position yourself to take advantage of it.
The only alternative is to be brilliantly good at what you do. A better salesman than anybody, to have more innovative ideas and an eye for refining processes. That requires a very strong skillset, one which few people have all together. To a large extent, you need this even with new opportunities, to outpace rivals trying to grab the same space as yourself.
You also need to expand the business from its start. For that you need funds, which requires credit, support from family, a windfall or savings. To get credit you need the ability to sell your product/service strongly.
Lots of people are brave, take risks, work hard ... and fail.
I don't want to minimise the hard work aspect, because that is also a vital part of the recipe. But it does not, on its own, guarantee success. Neither does a willingness to take risks. It also takes skills, intelligence, funding and a decent slice of luck. | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 14:19 - May 13 with 2164 views | hampstead_blue |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 13:03 - May 13 by Guthrum |
I have been running my own businesses for the majority of my working life. I also had a role for several years which involved studying the very wealthy.
To be a highly successful entrepreneur, you need an opportunity, an opening. Preferably to be in at the start of some new thing or process which you can exploit. Think Branson with the changes in the music industry in the 1970s, then more competition among airlines, Sugar or the Microsoft lot with computers, Zuckerberg with social media, Lucas and Gosling with car parks, Green with the retail explosion of the '80s, the Russian oligarchs with the collapse of the Soviet Union. If you are not in that sweet spot, there isn't the space for the business to become huge. You need an eye to recognise the developing situation early and to position yourself to take advantage of it.
The only alternative is to be brilliantly good at what you do. A better salesman than anybody, to have more innovative ideas and an eye for refining processes. That requires a very strong skillset, one which few people have all together. To a large extent, you need this even with new opportunities, to outpace rivals trying to grab the same space as yourself.
You also need to expand the business from its start. For that you need funds, which requires credit, support from family, a windfall or savings. To get credit you need the ability to sell your product/service strongly.
Lots of people are brave, take risks, work hard ... and fail.
I don't want to minimise the hard work aspect, because that is also a vital part of the recipe. But it does not, on its own, guarantee success. Neither does a willingness to take risks. It also takes skills, intelligence, funding and a decent slice of luck. |
Good points and I didn't mean to rain on you, just disagree on your points. I completely respect your experience.
Sometimes luck is a way to get started but after that you need to work really hard and be dedicated to stick at it.
I'm an entrepreneur and whilst it's draining and can destroy your confidence in a heartbeat, it's also amazing when you begin to get traction (hate that word but....).
No offence meant. Just didn't quite see it from you the words you used. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 14:39 - May 13 with 2145 views | HARRY10 |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 21:16 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
Lots of millionaires started with nothing but got there via sheer hard work and taking a few risks. A lot of them did things that anyone could do, maybe they think its not someone wants to take a lot of their money and give it to some people who want to sit around and do nothing. |
really ?
odd how no one I know who went to my school or grew up on the same council estate as me is a billionaire, or even a millionaire
perhaps they haven't ' worked hard enough'
and maybe attending Eton encourages you to 'work harder'
as to it being 'their money' how much of that would they have if the former did not work hard ? | | | |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 15:14 - May 13 with 2122 views | Guthrum |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 14:19 - May 13 by hampstead_blue |
Good points and I didn't mean to rain on you, just disagree on your points. I completely respect your experience.
Sometimes luck is a way to get started but after that you need to work really hard and be dedicated to stick at it.
I'm an entrepreneur and whilst it's draining and can destroy your confidence in a heartbeat, it's also amazing when you begin to get traction (hate that word but....).
No offence meant. Just didn't quite see it from you the words you used. |
No problem. It just grinds my gears a bit when people put forward the idea that all you need to do is work hard and success will automatically follow. There are plenty of other things which can go wrong (e.g. in 2009, along came a recession and 80% of my work evaporated, had to start again from scratch).
Also the suggestion that it's easily done as long as you put the work in, when in reality specific skills, qualities and knowlege are required, along with some backing and well-thought-out, viable ideas (you can't just "start a business", actual goods/services need to be sold to make money).
Much of the reason I keep going is because when it's good, it is good. | |
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| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 15:55 - May 13 with 2089 views | hampstead_blue |
| I’m a critic of JC and more centre-left on the spectrum on 15:14 - May 13 by Guthrum |
No problem. It just grinds my gears a bit when people put forward the idea that all you need to do is work hard and success will automatically follow. There are plenty of other things which can go wrong (e.g. in 2009, along came a recession and 80% of my work evaporated, had to start again from scratch).
Also the suggestion that it's easily done as long as you put the work in, when in reality specific skills, qualities and knowlege are required, along with some backing and well-thought-out, viable ideas (you can't just "start a business", actual goods/services need to be sold to make money).
Much of the reason I keep going is because when it's good, it is good. |
when it's good it's amazing!
I agree. Hard work is not the magic bullet. It's complicated and many things have to align. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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