| That's mick out stuff isn't it? 18:27 - Dec 14 with 2383 views | artsbossbeard |
Still, the emporer has new clothes, so all is fine. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:32 - Dec 15 with 354 views | Mullet |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:26 - Dec 15 by pointofblue |
But it shouldn’t be a case of black-and-white decision making; just because Hurst and, to an extent, Lambert failed/is failing doesn’t mean the decision for Mick to leave wasn’t the right one. He took us as far as he could and eventually something had to give because treading water is only acceptable if fans can accept Groundhog Day over and over again. History probably went against him, that we were a club punching above our weight for so long, as well as his success particularly in 2014 raising expectations. But the belligerence both parties showed grew into unrest which resulted in neither being able to tolerate the other - the club was not going to survive with him at the helm.
Our time at the top is over; unless some mad billionaire takes a liking to us after a bang on the head we’re never going to compete again. Mick is probably the right manager for that kind of club but only for so long. |
No one is saying that. It was right for Mick to go, he didn't deserve the abuse he was getting and lack of support from Evans any longer. The entitlement and lack of reality possibly through the familiarity of the division didn't help.
But that wasn't the argument, it was a footballing one which was obviously bobbins then as now. People wanted way more and made all these grandiose statements, then tried to whitewash this relegation and that hasn't come to pass either.
They're the true minority I'd say. Most people can see what a dark time this is and have from a long way off. |  |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:40 - Dec 15 with 327 views | pointofblue |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:32 - Dec 15 by Mullet |
No one is saying that. It was right for Mick to go, he didn't deserve the abuse he was getting and lack of support from Evans any longer. The entitlement and lack of reality possibly through the familiarity of the division didn't help.
But that wasn't the argument, it was a footballing one which was obviously bobbins then as now. People wanted way more and made all these grandiose statements, then tried to whitewash this relegation and that hasn't come to pass either.
They're the true minority I'd say. Most people can see what a dark time this is and have from a long way off. |
Mick didn’t help himself and I agree with you that, if the run continues, Lambert will be digging a hole with his comments as well. Whether fair or not, there’s a reason why a fanbase gets edgy - as a manager you either have to placate or argue and the latter rarely ends well for someone’s career. I’m someone who thinks Mick did a good job here but can also say he didn’t help himself as I feel he could have quashed most of the bile early on when it was fair criticism; he decided not to do so. That’s not to advocate how far it went in the end from the fans, that was nasty and unnecessary. I think it was a case of any change will do, the risk is worth it.
I actually thought that, until the hour mark, we played some of the best football I’d seen for a while but it has been too long coming and I think agitation is starting to set it from the fan base yet again. How Lambert handles both off-pitch and on-pitch over the next few weeks will dictate how his career pans out here; if we only pick up only a couple of draws from the next four I can see him gone before the Exeter match. |  |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:40 - Dec 15 with 327 views | LeoMuff |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:26 - Dec 15 by pointofblue |
But it shouldn’t be a case of black-and-white decision making; just because Hurst and, to an extent, Lambert failed/is failing doesn’t mean the decision for Mick to leave wasn’t the right one. He took us as far as he could and eventually something had to give because treading water is only acceptable if fans can accept Groundhog Day over and over again. History probably went against him, that we were a club punching above our weight for so long, as well as his success particularly in 2014 raising expectations. But the belligerence both parties showed grew into unrest which resulted in neither being able to tolerate the other - the club was not going to survive with him at the helm.
Our time at the top is over; unless some mad billionaire takes a liking to us after a bang on the head we’re never going to compete again. Mick is probably the right manager for that kind of club but only for so long. |
I don’t think anyone would argue he had to stay, but that was because some numb nuts gave him abuse, which was hugely unfair considering his results and the budget given, he reacted to this abuse and started a cycle from which there was no return.
The tragic thing was the outers wouldn’t agree he was massively over performing and the style of football was a needs must when we were on a bottom 3 budget, they have now been shown the truth. |  |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:50 - Dec 15 with 312 views | Mullet |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:40 - Dec 15 by pointofblue |
Mick didn’t help himself and I agree with you that, if the run continues, Lambert will be digging a hole with his comments as well. Whether fair or not, there’s a reason why a fanbase gets edgy - as a manager you either have to placate or argue and the latter rarely ends well for someone’s career. I’m someone who thinks Mick did a good job here but can also say he didn’t help himself as I feel he could have quashed most of the bile early on when it was fair criticism; he decided not to do so. That’s not to advocate how far it went in the end from the fans, that was nasty and unnecessary. I think it was a case of any change will do, the risk is worth it.
I actually thought that, until the hour mark, we played some of the best football I’d seen for a while but it has been too long coming and I think agitation is starting to set it from the fan base yet again. How Lambert handles both off-pitch and on-pitch over the next few weeks will dictate how his career pans out here; if we only pick up only a couple of draws from the next four I can see him gone before the Exeter match. |
That's not true either though, he said nothing/little for ages and when he finally stopped people then cried because he didn't name everyone personally and make it clear who was angry at.
That's all beside the point of people unable to take a fraction of what they were giving out.
He was treated appallingly by a fanbase and club that prides itself on not being like Leeds and the like. To expect Mick McCarthy not to be Mick McCarthy in the face of that has always been an interesting shout. Was he wrong? Sure, but only if you ignore what was happening in my opinion.
Likewise Lambert is keen to tell us he "might not be here much longer" so if he does walk again, it'll be odd if fans act surprised. It'll actually harm us far more than if he stays. We're seen as difficult to work with and for in the football world, and our reputation is long gone. Especially as it'll come at a time when Hurst and McCarthy are now doing well since leaving us.
Evans needs to sort this out to put it simplistically. | |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 11:08 - Dec 15 with 297 views | pointofblue |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:50 - Dec 15 by Mullet |
That's not true either though, he said nothing/little for ages and when he finally stopped people then cried because he didn't name everyone personally and make it clear who was angry at.
That's all beside the point of people unable to take a fraction of what they were giving out.
He was treated appallingly by a fanbase and club that prides itself on not being like Leeds and the like. To expect Mick McCarthy not to be Mick McCarthy in the face of that has always been an interesting shout. Was he wrong? Sure, but only if you ignore what was happening in my opinion.
Likewise Lambert is keen to tell us he "might not be here much longer" so if he does walk again, it'll be odd if fans act surprised. It'll actually harm us far more than if he stays. We're seen as difficult to work with and for in the football world, and our reputation is long gone. Especially as it'll come at a time when Hurst and McCarthy are now doing well since leaving us.
Evans needs to sort this out to put it simplistically. |
Hurst is sitting mid table with a side expected to walk League a Two whilst Mick’s team managed to score one goal in 180 minutes against Georgia and three in the same amount of time against Gibraltar, who failed to keep out less than three goals in every other qualifier. I’d argue define ‘well’.
Yes, the fanbase was unrealistic and harsh but Mick didn’t handle it well. Simply acknowledging why people were edgy would have been sufficient but he failed to do that and it spiralled with both taking pot shots. It was pointless and unedifying.
Our we really a more unreasonable fan base than the majority of others? I don’t think so. I took a quick look at the Bristol Rovers forum, for example, and they weren’t even united over whether Coughlan was good enough, at least before yesterday. Football managers know going from job there will be expectations, some higher than reasonable. That is now the nature of the beast. | |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 11:14 - Dec 15 with 290 views | Mullet |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 11:08 - Dec 15 by pointofblue |
Hurst is sitting mid table with a side expected to walk League a Two whilst Mick’s team managed to score one goal in 180 minutes against Georgia and three in the same amount of time against Gibraltar, who failed to keep out less than three goals in every other qualifier. I’d argue define ‘well’.
Yes, the fanbase was unrealistic and harsh but Mick didn’t handle it well. Simply acknowledging why people were edgy would have been sufficient but he failed to do that and it spiralled with both taking pot shots. It was pointless and unedifying.
Our we really a more unreasonable fan base than the majority of others? I don’t think so. I took a quick look at the Bristol Rovers forum, for example, and they weren’t even united over whether Coughlan was good enough, at least before yesterday. Football managers know going from job there will be expectations, some higher than reasonable. That is now the nature of the beast. |
You're cherry picking Mick's run and Hurst's terrible start there, he's just won MOTM and seems to have dispelled early fears about him from what I can see.
We're being seen that way, certainly in no part thanks to people charging into the hands of planks like Sutton and Glendenning, that's the key difference. When you make those two look bob on more than once, let alone for months, it's you not them.
But certainly in terms of pretty much everything Evans does off field we're not seen in a good light, "ticket tout" nonsense aside. | |
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| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 11:25 - Dec 15 with 264 views | reusersfreekicks |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 10:13 - Dec 15 by TractorCam |
Thought we were moving on? |
So did I. This revisionist worshiping of MM is nonsense imo. The football is better now wheras under MM it was not even an aspiration. Defenders told to hoof it at every opportunity etc etc.
How many more times do we have to self indulge in this argument? It was time for him to leave when he did. Look at the dross served up by ROI, football has left him behind.
The fact that what followed him has been a let down changes the above not a jot. |  | | |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 11:35 - Dec 15 with 254 views | pointofblue |
| That's mick out stuff isn't it? on 11:14 - Dec 15 by Mullet |
You're cherry picking Mick's run and Hurst's terrible start there, he's just won MOTM and seems to have dispelled early fears about him from what I can see.
We're being seen that way, certainly in no part thanks to people charging into the hands of planks like Sutton and Glendenning, that's the key difference. When you make those two look bob on more than once, let alone for months, it's you not them.
But certainly in terms of pretty much everything Evans does off field we're not seen in a good light, "ticket tout" nonsense aside. |
Mick did well enough against the tougher sides but his team failed to impose themselves against weaker opponents, which was very much the issue at the end of his time here. Hurst has the strongest squad in League Two at his disposal yet is nine points off the Play Offs after throwing away a two goal lead at home yesterday - and we think Lambert is doing badly!
The treatment of McCarthy is the only time we can be called out as a fanbase for being unreasonable. We were surprisingly patient with Hurst, considering. Lambert has been given a lot of breathing space and time despite failing abjectly to turn us around last season and now taking us on a run of one win in ten against lower level sides than we played in 18/19. Evans might be an issue but our fanbase is generally accepting. I admit that not many may agree with that perception, due to the treatment of McCarthy, in the wider world. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 11:43]
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