| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. 12:28 - Jan 23 with 27818 views | monytowbray |
Is why many feel the need to assume what they think is patriotic or the opinion of the masses? Farage I regularly used to see referred as the man of the people. Tommy Robinson and Hopkins are regularly said to "just be saying what everyone's thinking" by the same folk.
Why do they feel the need to project their lack of values on everyone or claim it's the British thing to do? These people are far from a "majority", let alone a "silent" one if you spend 5 minutes reading the rubbish spouted on social media.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone equate a leftist idea as patriotic or something everyone believes deep down because to do so with any idea is nonsense, even if in the actual majority. I don't believe banning hunting is the British thing to do or something everyone thinks for example, even though you'd hard pressed to find many people who are pro-hunting next to the masses of people against it.
Eurgh. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 23:13 - Jan 24 with 4307 views | GaryCooper |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 21:33 - Jan 24 by jeera |
You'd have to do better than that if you want to enforce a point GC.
Our language is made up of some 28% French, some Latin [directly], Sanskrit, Arabic, Germanic, Old English, others...
I like we've been relatively welcoming to some immigration but the honest truth is we actually haven't been too welcoming in times of need and there has been some serious campaigning to the government in the past to allow even the most immediately endangered people to come here for safety.
It wasn't with open arms - much of it was reluctant.
It's ok to love your country, but that doesn't mean we have to reinvent history in order to do so.
We have to come to terms with our identity. That doesn't make us personally responsible nor does it mean we're alone having a nation of some portion of disgraceful historical conduct.
Far from it unfortunately. |
Yes the language is a confection but is the international language of communication.
The people from British history are responsible for incredible achievements but politicians and royalty in our countries name, terrible feats. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 23:23 - Jan 24 with 4286 views | jeera |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 23:13 - Jan 24 by GaryCooper |
Yes the language is a confection but is the international language of communication.
The people from British history are responsible for incredible achievements but politicians and royalty in our countries name, terrible feats. |
Right. So we have so far in my opinion:
Architecture.
Engineering.
Football.
Batter pudding.
That's not a bad start. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 09:32 - Jan 25 with 4229 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 19:57 - Jan 24 by GaryCooper |
The language, the wars against extremism, the welcoming of immigrants, inventions that have saved millions of lives, ad nauseum. Endless British achievements if one opens their mind. |
First of all, there are British people and the British state. The empire was a state run enterprise, yes there were private companies but they were essentially government contractors.
I have no doubt British people have done some great things, every nation will have its fair share of inventors, medical professionals and philosophers. We may have more due to the fact we had a nicer and wealthier country due to stealing wealth from abroad.
We need a language, and it's a hybrid of many languages, mainly old Saxon and Latin/French, so I'm not sure why we should feel proud of it.
What wars against extremism, too? Wwii was primarily fought as a war of survival and hegemony. The fact Hitler was a genocidal psychopath only came into it as a secondary reason.
And I should think so, re welcoming immigrants: after we stole their country, its sort of the least you can do without being an evil hypocrite. We're also not particularly welcoming, see the Jewish refugees we left to die in Germany or how Afro carribean people were treated on their arrival, or, for a more recent example, Windrush, where we tried to deport people who have lived here for 60 years. [Post edited 25 Jan 2020 9:34]
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 11:01 - Jan 25 with 4209 views | Lord_Lucan |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 17:16 - Jan 24 by monytowbray |
This sort of comes back to the "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MOVE TO NORTH KOREA" argument I've seen mentioned in the past (not to say that is the point you are making here). Just because some places in the world are worse doesn't mean we don't have our own issues to fix.
TBF the UK isn't half as desirable as it once was. Much news in recent years has stated many migrant labour workers would rather go elsewhere for better money and quality of life.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/09/lack-of-migrant-workers-left
There are also many reasons people may want to come to the UK beyond the simplified idea that it's a great place. The fact English is a fairly common second language is a big factor. As are things like already having family/friends here. |
"This sort of comes back to the "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MOVE TO NORTH KOREA"
Yes, that is exactly the same as what I said.
Have a day off Callis and go and plant a carrot or something. |  |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 11:13 - Jan 25 with 4195 views | Oxford_Blue |
You could make the same criticism of the left and replace “nationalism” with “anti-nationalism”. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 12:34 - Jan 25 with 4150 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 11:01 - Jan 25 by Lord_Lucan |
"This sort of comes back to the "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT MOVE TO NORTH KOREA"
Yes, that is exactly the same as what I said.
Have a day off Callis and go and plant a carrot or something. |
I literally just said after it that wasn’t what I was claiming you were saying at all. It was just based on the logic of others that we shouldn’t judge good on the standards of others. What you’ve replied with is the opposite of what I said. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 12:35 - Jan 25 with 4147 views | monytowbray |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 11:13 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
You could make the same criticism of the left and replace “nationalism” with “anti-nationalism”. |
Define “anti-nationalism” please, you’ve lost me. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:48 - Jan 25 with 4110 views | Lord_Lucan |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 12:34 - Jan 25 by monytowbray |
I literally just said after it that wasn’t what I was claiming you were saying at all. It was just based on the logic of others that we shouldn’t judge good on the standards of others. What you’ve replied with is the opposite of what I said. |
If it wasn't what you thought I was claiming there was absolutely no point in saying it.
None whatsoever.
Why would you just spout out something that you thought had no relevance to what you were replying to.
It's nonsensical. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:52 - Jan 25 with 4106 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 12:35 - Jan 25 by monytowbray |
Define “anti-nationalism” please, you’ve lost me. |
I can’t put it any clearer.
They are against the concept of nationalism, national identity, and are ashamed of the country and its history - but are happy to support the IRA, Palestinian terror organisations. Just think of Corbyn. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:57 - Jan 25 with 4098 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:53 - Jan 24 by Lord_Lucan |
And it is puzzling that millions of people would love to live here.
I just can't work it out. |
Because you have the luxury of free speech?
There are many places in the world where life expectancy is low, war and crime is rife, and poverty is a killer.
Not hard to see why this country is attractive. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:58 - Jan 25 with 4097 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 12:41 - Jan 23 by monytowbray |
Preaching to the choir there, I'm more interested in the opinions of the board's right wingers to be honest. Although I doubt I'll get much sense in terms of an answer.
It's funny how most educated people are usually left wing too. Bloody teachers and students and doctors and professors. How dare they use their intelligence to form a political opinion. |
“ It's funny how most educated people are usually left wing too.”
You’ll have to provide some evidence for that bold statement. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:01 - Jan 25 with 4090 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:44 - Jan 24 by BackToRussia |
You've named two good things, and completely ignored all the atrocities listed. Head in the sand. Your best line was Russia and China have committed genocide too so its OK. |
Britain has provided many engineers, scientific and medical advances, great literature, art and music, and has provided some of the enlightenment values that shaped the modern world.
These are clearly things to be celebrated - unless you’re motivated by hating the country. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:07 - Jan 25 with 4074 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:01 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
Britain has provided many engineers, scientific and medical advances, great literature, art and music, and has provided some of the enlightenment values that shaped the modern world.
These are clearly things to be celebrated - unless you’re motivated by hating the country. |
So has every other country. Many of them without enslaving and exploiting and invading. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:44 - Jan 25 with 4046 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:07 - Jan 25 by BackToRussia |
So has every other country. Many of them without enslaving and exploiting and invading. |
Absolute nonsense.
This notion that Britain is the only country to have fought wars and had an empire is simply a lie.
You tell me which other countries developed parliamentary democracy or had the first industrial revolution, and had major advances in science, engineering, art, the abolition of slavery, literature, and the rule of law - but never fought a war or invaded anyone else.
I’m sorry you hate the country so much and I guess it’s trendy in some circles to do so, but it belies a serious and deep ignorance about history, and progression. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:17 - Jan 25 with 4021 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:44 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
Absolute nonsense.
This notion that Britain is the only country to have fought wars and had an empire is simply a lie.
You tell me which other countries developed parliamentary democracy or had the first industrial revolution, and had major advances in science, engineering, art, the abolition of slavery, literature, and the rule of law - but never fought a war or invaded anyone else.
I’m sorry you hate the country so much and I guess it’s trendy in some circles to do so, but it belies a serious and deep ignorance about history, and progression. |
Doesn't warrant a response. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:36 - Jan 25 with 4013 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:17 - Jan 25 by BackToRussia |
Doesn't warrant a response. |
Run off then and avoid a question you can’t answer.
The intellectual and moral coward’s response. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:41 - Jan 25 with 4011 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:36 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
Run off then and avoid a question you can’t answer.
The intellectual and moral coward’s response. |
I've put plenty in this thread that no one has replied to, including yourself. Feel free to stop being lazy and read them. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:57 - Jan 25 with 3999 views | Clapham_Junction |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 13:52 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
I can’t put it any clearer.
They are against the concept of nationalism, national identity, and are ashamed of the country and its history - but are happy to support the IRA, Palestinian terror organisations. Just think of Corbyn. |
I think you're confusing anti-nationalism with anti-imperialism.
And nationalism as a general concept is not necessarily a right/left wing thing. Opposition to Scottish nationalism tends to be much higher on the right. |  | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:05 - Jan 25 with 3978 views | Lord_Lucan |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:57 - Jan 25 by Clapham_Junction |
I think you're confusing anti-nationalism with anti-imperialism.
And nationalism as a general concept is not necessarily a right/left wing thing. Opposition to Scottish nationalism tends to be much higher on the right. |
Nationalism in Scotland is accepted by and large as being proud of your history and heritage whereas nationalism in England is looked at as being supported by ruddy faced right wing loons or young anti immigration fanatics.
Well, these are generally the views of the left to be completely honest about it. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:07 - Jan 25 with 3975 views | Clapham_Junction |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 14:44 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
Absolute nonsense.
This notion that Britain is the only country to have fought wars and had an empire is simply a lie.
You tell me which other countries developed parliamentary democracy or had the first industrial revolution, and had major advances in science, engineering, art, the abolition of slavery, literature, and the rule of law - but never fought a war or invaded anyone else.
I’m sorry you hate the country so much and I guess it’s trendy in some circles to do so, but it belies a serious and deep ignorance about history, and progression. |
The reason the UK developed in the way we did is in large part down to good fortune of our geography. We live on an island (which is relatively easy to defend compared to being on the continent), has a very mild and temperate climate, few natural disasters, productive land and plenty of natural resources.
Being an island also meant we developed a good navy, which happened to be a handy tool to build an empire at the point in history when worldwide travel became a reality.
I think the accusations that left-wing people hate their country are ridiculous. Many people (quite justifiably) hate the current government and the inequalities in the society we live in, and are not willing to defend the Empire, but that's not the same thing as hating the country. Do people really believe this, or is it just a fact-free stick to beat people on the left with?
IMO, patriotism is wanting the best for your country, not thinking it is the best. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:15 - Jan 25 with 3960 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 15:41 - Jan 25 by BackToRussia |
I've put plenty in this thread that no one has replied to, including yourself. Feel free to stop being lazy and read them. |
I’ve read your posts and you don’t address my question.
You can’t name any other country that has contributed to the extent that Britain has and which has not also been involved in wars. So it undermines your glib suggestion that there are lots of other countries which have contributed what Britain has, but not invaded others or been involved in wars.
Even a cursory glance at history shows that Britain has significantly contributed in many many fields. Those are things which we can and should recognise. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:17 - Jan 25 with 3954 views | Oxford_Blue |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:07 - Jan 25 by Clapham_Junction |
The reason the UK developed in the way we did is in large part down to good fortune of our geography. We live on an island (which is relatively easy to defend compared to being on the continent), has a very mild and temperate climate, few natural disasters, productive land and plenty of natural resources.
Being an island also meant we developed a good navy, which happened to be a handy tool to build an empire at the point in history when worldwide travel became a reality.
I think the accusations that left-wing people hate their country are ridiculous. Many people (quite justifiably) hate the current government and the inequalities in the society we live in, and are not willing to defend the Empire, but that's not the same thing as hating the country. Do people really believe this, or is it just a fact-free stick to beat people on the left with?
IMO, patriotism is wanting the best for your country, not thinking it is the best. |
Please explain how Shakespeare, the common law, and industrial revolution were caused by geography. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:17 - Jan 25 with 3954 views | Clapham_Junction |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:05 - Jan 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Nationalism in Scotland is accepted by and large as being proud of your history and heritage whereas nationalism in England is looked at as being supported by ruddy faced right wing loons or young anti immigration fanatics.
Well, these are generally the views of the left to be completely honest about it. |
I think when you have countries like the UK, nationalism amongst the minority groups tends to be more left-wing and nationalism amongst the majority group tends to be right-wing, I suspect because it is more authoritarian (keeping control over all the territory/people) or reactionary against the minority groups' nationalism. And I say this as an English nationalist.
In Spain, the recent events in Catalonia led to the re-emergence of a significant Spanish nationalist feeling, which has been expressed in the rise of the right/populist/far-right Vox party. | | | |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:35 - Jan 25 with 3931 views | BackToRussia |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:15 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
I’ve read your posts and you don’t address my question.
You can’t name any other country that has contributed to the extent that Britain has and which has not also been involved in wars. So it undermines your glib suggestion that there are lots of other countries which have contributed what Britain has, but not invaded others or been involved in wars.
Even a cursory glance at history shows that Britain has significantly contributed in many many fields. Those are things which we can and should recognise. |
How many imperialist empires have there been that have committed atrocities on the scale we have? I'd say maybe 20 or so across history, out of thousands of nations that have come and gone.
You're making zero distinction between Britain as a state and people who have the nationality of Britain, so your analysis counts for nothing. | |
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| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:39 - Jan 25 with 3922 views | footers |
| One thing that's really bugged me a while about the right wing. on 16:17 - Jan 25 by Oxford_Blue |
Please explain how Shakespeare, the common law, and industrial revolution were caused by geography. |
What is your argument exactly? That there is something uniquely British which has enabled us to produce great works of art or advances in governance and science that are unattainable to other nations? I really don't understand what you're getting at. |  |
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