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Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 21:25 - Mar 9 by WeWereZombies
That is not what Trevor Phillips said. He was defining Islam as a faith open to all races, therefore attacks on Islam were attacks on a belief system and not on any one race in particular.
I think you've got this a bit wrong Zombers. Even if that can be argued in an academic sense, clearly Muslims have become a racial group in real life (Warsi) and the onus is on Phillips to have the same standard for other religions and beliefs (Oborne).
He's talking about 2.5 million people in very narrow and specious terms. At best Phillips is clumsy and offensive. At worst, he's guilty of racism.
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Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 21:41 - Mar 9 with 4841 views
Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 20:24 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont
To be fair Livingstone never said anything as prejudicial against Jews as Phillips has said against Muslims. And I believe his challenge of the suspension was what kept him around more than anything else.
Livingstone's statements were crass and offensive but not antisemitic per se. He was right to be expelled for being a knob about it.
But nice to see so many people actually backing up Phillip's comments. FFS.
To be fair you're wrong Livingstone comments were anti-Semitism and to say they were only crass are ffs a joke. Plus who gives a shlt about his legal challenge, if Labour really wanted to make a stand they could have banned him and stood up against any legal challenge, it's called a matter of principle. Plus labour is a club even if they had lost the challenge they still wouldn't have to let him in, principles.
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Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 21:46 - Mar 9 with 4835 views
Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 21:41 - Mar 9 by BloomBlue
To be fair you're wrong Livingstone comments were anti-Semitism and to say they were only crass are ffs a joke. Plus who gives a shlt about his legal challenge, if Labour really wanted to make a stand they could have banned him and stood up against any legal challenge, it's called a matter of principle. Plus labour is a club even if they had lost the challenge they still wouldn't have to let him in, principles.
I think we'll have to disagree on that. I've explained it before so Google the thread.
As for the rest of your post, have a word with yourself. You can't change the rules when it suits you.
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Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 22:31 - Mar 9 with 4667 views
Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 21:33 - Mar 9 by Darth_Koont
I think you've got this a bit wrong Zombers. Even if that can be argued in an academic sense, clearly Muslims have become a racial group in real life (Warsi) and the onus is on Phillips to have the same standard for other religions and beliefs (Oborne).
He's talking about 2.5 million people in very narrow and specious terms. At best Phillips is clumsy and offensive. At worst, he's guilty of racism.
No way, a faith is predicated upon beliefs and is determined by the brain. Islam is very clear on this requiring complete submission to the will of God (Iman الإيمان‎) as a metaphysical act that involves development of conviction beyond doubt, i.e. not blind belief.
Race, by contrast, is a social construct based on folk taxonomies and, whilst in modern times the dependence upon biological characteristics has been played down, often reliant upon ethnicity and traits. It is not dependent upon a conscious decision by individuals in the way a religious belief is (even if that decision is an affirmation during adolescence when the consequences are denying the religion are severe).
One thing that Christianity and Islam share is the characteristic to adapt to very different cultures whilst retaining a core text across the World, the Old and New Testaments for Christianity and the Koran for Islam. There are obvious racial differences between African Americans and Arabs but there are adherents to either faith in either racial grouping.
To grasp the essential difference between faith and race is vital to understanding what Trevor Phillips means because to disregard the semantic difference is to begin a journey to a place where the use of language breaks down altogether.
Trevor Phillips then, the daft 'racist'. on 19:39 - Mar 9 by lowhouseblue
your constant repetitive posting to deny the extent of anti-semitism in the labour party is one of the weirdest and nastiest obsessions i've encountered. seek help.
But you tories still fail to acknowledge the antisemitism in the tory party - look up the activities of many in the ETG mob. Not to mention Islamaphobia
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 07:44 - Mar 10 with 4582 views
Labour's general secretary Jennie Formby suspended him as a matter of urgency to "protect the party's reputation".
I nearly spat out my tea when I read that bit!
Reading the BBC's coverage and listening to Phillips on R4 I find it wrong that he's been treated like this.
Is it Islamophobic to say that all muslims are wrong, believe in fairy stories, and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who? I know Phillips didn't say that, but if I went on a platform and said that would I be deemed as an Islamophobe?
Phillips is speaking his mind and is clear in his context.
If we did the right thing and banned all religions this wouldn't be a problem. After all, do you believe in fairies?
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 07:44 - Mar 10 by hampstead_blue
Labour's general secretary Jennie Formby suspended him as a matter of urgency to "protect the party's reputation".
I nearly spat out my tea when I read that bit!
Reading the BBC's coverage and listening to Phillips on R4 I find it wrong that he's been treated like this.
Is it Islamophobic to say that all muslims are wrong, believe in fairy stories, and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who? I know Phillips didn't say that, but if I went on a platform and said that would I be deemed as an Islamophobe?
Phillips is speaking his mind and is clear in his context.
If we did the right thing and banned all religions this wouldn't be a problem. After all, do you believe in fairies?
"Is it Islamophobic to say that all muslims are wrong, believe in fairy stories, and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who? I know Phillips didn't say that, but if I went on a platform and said that would I be deemed as an Islamophobe?"
No. It's the bit when you then single out Muslims as being "different" from other people and religions. That's the very definition of prejudice right there.
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:15 - Mar 10 with 4555 views
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:10 - Mar 10 by Darth_Koont
"Is it Islamophobic to say that all muslims are wrong, believe in fairy stories, and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who? I know Phillips didn't say that, but if I went on a platform and said that would I be deemed as an Islamophobe?"
No. It's the bit when you then single out Muslims as being "different" from other people and religions. That's the very definition of prejudice right there.
Ok, so if I say that muslims are 'different' because they believe if fairy stories, is that wrong?
Phillips has done nothing wrong. He's a very bright lad with a huge track record in equality. He knows his context which, if I have read it right, is that islam is not based on a single race. It's race agnostic. That is my understanding the word 'different'. Christians are the same.
They are all wrong btw and should be a global unilateral ban.
For Dear Jenny to come out with that is simply hilarious.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 07:44 - Mar 10 by hampstead_blue
Labour's general secretary Jennie Formby suspended him as a matter of urgency to "protect the party's reputation".
I nearly spat out my tea when I read that bit!
Reading the BBC's coverage and listening to Phillips on R4 I find it wrong that he's been treated like this.
Is it Islamophobic to say that all muslims are wrong, believe in fairy stories, and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who? I know Phillips didn't say that, but if I went on a platform and said that would I be deemed as an Islamophobe?
Phillips is speaking his mind and is clear in his context.
If we did the right thing and banned all religions this wouldn't be a problem. After all, do you believe in fairies?
"and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who"
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:15 - Mar 10 by hampstead_blue
Ok, so if I say that muslims are 'different' because they believe if fairy stories, is that wrong?
Phillips has done nothing wrong. He's a very bright lad with a huge track record in equality. He knows his context which, if I have read it right, is that islam is not based on a single race. It's race agnostic. That is my understanding the word 'different'. Christians are the same.
They are all wrong btw and should be a global unilateral ban.
For Dear Jenny to come out with that is simply hilarious.
If you're saying they're different from the other people who believe in fairy stories and different as people then yes, that's wrong.
There's nothing wrong with being anti-religion or pointing out cultural issues. But when you single out 2.5 million people in the UK (massively diverse group at that) and say they are different and can't integrate then that's clearly not right.
It's insulting not just because it's prejudicial but because it's stupid.
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:41 - Mar 10 with 4496 views
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:15 - Mar 10 by hampstead_blue
Ok, so if I say that muslims are 'different' because they believe if fairy stories, is that wrong?
Phillips has done nothing wrong. He's a very bright lad with a huge track record in equality. He knows his context which, if I have read it right, is that islam is not based on a single race. It's race agnostic. That is my understanding the word 'different'. Christians are the same.
They are all wrong btw and should be a global unilateral ban.
For Dear Jenny to come out with that is simply hilarious.
Well, you have demonstrated a willingness to adhere to a belief rather than fact.
Which of course makes you a human, much like many other humans that follow belief systems.
You probably can’t see the flies in your eyes, because of the flies in your eyes.
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 09:02 - Mar 10 with 4473 views
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:19 - Mar 10 by DanTheMan
"and that the Prophet was a three headed monster from Dr Who"
You do know he was a real person, right?
I know. But the whole religion is based on fictitious stories. They all are.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 08:41 - Mar 10 by eireblue
Well, you have demonstrated a willingness to adhere to a belief rather than fact.
Which of course makes you a human, much like many other humans that follow belief systems.
You probably can’t see the flies in your eyes, because of the flies in your eyes.
Not at all dear Sir.
I am in a believer. Science and fact are my belief systems.
What I love about science is that it can scrub out religion at GCSE level. Nobody cares to accept it though.
Oh, Koont, I'm listening and sending
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 10:03 - Mar 10 by jeera
" Nobody cares to accept it though."
Apart from the hundreds of us on here who are dismissive towards religious beliefs daily you mean.
Now you seem to think you've invented scepticism.
I'm talking about wider society, not here.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 10:19 - Mar 10 by hampstead_blue
I'm talking about wider society, not here.
“ .....Nobody cares to accept it though”
Can you explain, using scientific fact. How your statement is correct about wider society in a way that it doesn’t apply to here then.
Feel free to include recent statistics and trends on numbers of people that follow a religion, to back up your claim of “nobody” as applied to wider society.
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 11:25 - Mar 10 with 4349 views
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 10:27 - Mar 10 by eireblue
“ .....Nobody cares to accept it though”
Can you explain, using scientific fact. How your statement is correct about wider society in a way that it doesn’t apply to here then.
Feel free to include recent statistics and trends on numbers of people that follow a religion, to back up your claim of “nobody” as applied to wider society.
Science can prove how we came about.
There was no creator. Evolution happens over a very long time.
The proof that 'nobody cares to accept it' is in the existence of religion. People choose to believe in some mystical creator.
I cannot express myself as majestically as these gentlemen. Please do listen and we can discuss further.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 09:58 - Mar 10 by Darth_Koont
But dodging whether Phillips is right to be so specific and prejudiced about Muslims compared to other believers.
Stick to the point.
DK come on even you when you first read this must have our your head in your hands and thought WTF are these people thinking of. Just been hammered in an election completely out of touch with the vast majority, what should we do. I know suspend STP one of the most respected individuals across the UK for all his wonderful work over the decades in truly fighting equality across all faiths, colours and religions, yes that’s a truly fantastic idea and this will really show the electorate we are listening. It’s complete madness from this leadership, naive, misguided, misjudged completely unbelievable.
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 20:44 - Mar 10 with 4244 views
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 20:01 - Mar 10 by jimmyvet
DK come on even you when you first read this must have our your head in your hands and thought WTF are these people thinking of. Just been hammered in an election completely out of touch with the vast majority, what should we do. I know suspend STP one of the most respected individuals across the UK for all his wonderful work over the decades in truly fighting equality across all faiths, colours and religions, yes that’s a truly fantastic idea and this will really show the electorate we are listening. It’s complete madness from this leadership, naive, misguided, misjudged completely unbelievable.
Hang on. I was pointing out Phillips as a dodgy contrarian way back.
Get some standards and ask yourself why you're defending someone who is proudly prejudiced against Muslims. However logical and reasoned you might think it is, this goes even further than Livingstone who even I criticised in terms of his offensiveness.
The problem with you politically and recently motivated "antiracists" is that the politics is always more important. That's when you show yourselves for what you are.
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Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 20:56 - Mar 10 with 4218 views
Jenny Formby, made me laugh! on 11:25 - Mar 10 by hampstead_blue
Science can prove how we came about.
There was no creator. Evolution happens over a very long time.
The proof that 'nobody cares to accept it' is in the existence of religion. People choose to believe in some mystical creator.
I cannot express myself as majestically as these gentlemen. Please do listen and we can discuss further.
May I point out that science is all theory, theory supported by experiment that will subsist until a superior theory debunks the extent of our present knowledge. To state that there was no creator we need to be confident about the big bang theory or alternatives supporting a solid state Universe etc. and then posit what might have happened before these phenomena to bring them about (if we accept time's arrow and that is not beyond question).
Evolution is far more convincing than theories of a prime mover but it must be remembered that evolution is a group of theories, complementary and detailed, still being finessed. There is far more that can be accomplished by explaining them to those yet to be convinced rather than getting on a high horse and being dismissive.
Apparently Phillips has asked the Labour leadership candidates to "pick a side".
Well good on Lisa Nandy.
Admittedly as she seems to be in third place she's got nothing much to lose by taking on the right-wing press and mainstream acceptance of Islamophobia, but pretty critical that Starmer and Long-Bailey also make a statement and presumably take the hit.
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