| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? 16:47 - Apr 17 with 4047 views | rgp1 |
Anybody have any ideas what levels of taxation will be
Say income tax 25 to 30 percent
Vat 25 percent
Any thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 12:46 - Apr 18 with 883 views | longtimefan |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 12:29 - Apr 18 by Durovigutum |
Or this - sorry, missed this reply. |
Yep, Sparks got there first, but thanks anyway. | | | |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:19 - Apr 18 with 844 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 09:37 - Apr 18 by sparks |
There is an assumption, which deserves closer consideration, that higher earners should not only pay more, but pay at higher rates.
Why is that? Its not as if the higher earners are not already paying far more. Clearly there is the practical consideration- i.e. they are more able to take the hit. But thats about it isnt it?
As for loopholes, some of the people with small companies need to be looked at. The manner in which you can pay yourself a modest salary in a succesful small company (which is effectively just you or not much more) and then take money by dividends at a lower rate than everyone else pays, seems problematic. |
Yes, it is about those who can pay paying.
Would you rather a system where everyone pays the same?
What would you do about those who cannot afford to?
There is a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth as it is with the system we have.
My bigger problem is with the nature of taxation generally. Things like the loopholes you claim where I know rich people who pay very little tax because they pay themselves a very low wage and take massive earnings in dividends. When you get to the point where it is cost-effective to employ an accountant to save you paying tax shows there is a problem in the way the system works. |  |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:38 - Apr 18 with 822 views | Plums |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:19 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Yes, it is about those who can pay paying.
Would you rather a system where everyone pays the same?
What would you do about those who cannot afford to?
There is a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth as it is with the system we have.
My bigger problem is with the nature of taxation generally. Things like the loopholes you claim where I know rich people who pay very little tax because they pay themselves a very low wage and take massive earnings in dividends. When you get to the point where it is cost-effective to employ an accountant to save you paying tax shows there is a problem in the way the system works. |
I’ll get shot at for this but it’s worth pointing out that those taking payment in dividends are also paying large sums in corporation tax (unless they have some crooked way of increasing expenditure and minimising profits).
If the government doesn’t go after Amazon and others who are currently profiting hugely without paying anything into the exchequer then there’s something seriously wrong. |  |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:43 - Apr 18 with 818 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:38 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I’ll get shot at for this but it’s worth pointing out that those taking payment in dividends are also paying large sums in corporation tax (unless they have some crooked way of increasing expenditure and minimising profits).
If the government doesn’t go after Amazon and others who are currently profiting hugely without paying anything into the exchequer then there’s something seriously wrong. |
No, my rich friend pays very little in corporation tax. Why would he? He is a self-employed builder.
I don't know how it all works but there is a reason why he chooses a very low salary and to take large dividends to live off. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:56 - Apr 18 with 804 views | longtimefan |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:38 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I’ll get shot at for this but it’s worth pointing out that those taking payment in dividends are also paying large sums in corporation tax (unless they have some crooked way of increasing expenditure and minimising profits).
If the government doesn’t go after Amazon and others who are currently profiting hugely without paying anything into the exchequer then there’s something seriously wrong. |
I believe corporation tax is 19%. Beats paying 20 or more likely 40%. | | | |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:05 - Apr 18 with 790 views | Plums |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:56 - Apr 18 by longtimefan |
I believe corporation tax is 19%. Beats paying 20 or more likely 40%. |
You realise there’s dividend tax as well? | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:08 - Apr 18 with 785 views | bluefunk |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:43 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
No, my rich friend pays very little in corporation tax. Why would he? He is a self-employed builder.
I don't know how it all works but there is a reason why he chooses a very low salary and to take large dividends to live off. |
You obviously don’t understand this.
Either he operates as a self employed individual, in which case he income tax on his profits (income less allowable expenses) and NI as a self employed individual
Or
He operates as a Limited Company, pays Corporation Tax on the Company’s profits. Then, when he takes money from the company, it’s either as en employee (tax and NI on income) or via dividends.
If it’s the latter, the ONLY major benefit is that he won’t pay National Insurance Contributions either as an individual or via the company. The way the tax system works now dividends attract as much income tax as wages. |  | | |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:08 - Apr 18 with 785 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:56 - Apr 18 by longtimefan |
I believe corporation tax is 19%. Beats paying 20 or more likely 40%. |
I have just looked it up.
He will pay 20% if he makes a profit of £300K or 21% if it is more than that.
So, assuming he takes all profit out of his business in dividends, he can earn £300K at 20% tax without paying any NI or employment taxes etc on it at all.
As Sparks said, it is a loophole that ought to be closed. Some people have been able to make a lot of money out of it and they are not somehow silently paying their way as Delia suggests. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:13 - Apr 18 with 781 views | Plums |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:43 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
No, my rich friend pays very little in corporation tax. Why would he? He is a self-employed builder.
I don't know how it all works but there is a reason why he chooses a very low salary and to take large dividends to live off. |
I hope he sleeps well at night. That’s not a tightrope I’d want to be walking. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:38 - Apr 18 with 767 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:08 - Apr 18 by bluefunk |
You obviously don’t understand this.
Either he operates as a self employed individual, in which case he income tax on his profits (income less allowable expenses) and NI as a self employed individual
Or
He operates as a Limited Company, pays Corporation Tax on the Company’s profits. Then, when he takes money from the company, it’s either as en employee (tax and NI on income) or via dividends.
If it’s the latter, the ONLY major benefit is that he won’t pay National Insurance Contributions either as an individual or via the company. The way the tax system works now dividends attract as much income tax as wages. |
That's interesting.
As I say, it isn't something I follow that closely and it may well have changed from when he did explain it to me. He certainly used to pay a lot less by earning that way. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:39 - Apr 18 with 765 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:13 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I hope he sleeps well at night. That’s not a tightrope I’d want to be walking. |
Why? | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:41 - Apr 18 with 764 views | bluefunk |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:38 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
That's interesting.
As I say, it isn't something I follow that closely and it may well have changed from when he did explain it to me. He certainly used to pay a lot less by earning that way. |
Dividend rules have recently changed, so it’s not as it was. | | | |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:45 - Apr 18 with 758 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:41 - Apr 18 by bluefunk |
Dividend rules have recently changed, so it’s not as it was. |
So his accountant won't have found some other way to avoid paying the tax? | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:45 - Apr 18 with 758 views | NotSure |
It's possible that with all this "new money" being created by the bank of England that the government are planning to reduce the overall debt with inflation.
Pensions should also be frozen (or at least something like 5% below inflation). The young are being hardest hit by Coronavirus when ironically it physically affects them the least. |  | | |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:57 - Apr 18 with 750 views | Plums |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:39 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Why? |
The business pays corporation tax on profits and dividends can only be paid if the business is profitable and therefore the tax your mate pays and his dividends should reflect the profitability of the company. You can’t have one without the other. Drawing big dividends and not paying proportionate corporation tax (unless it’s retained profit from previous years - on which tax has already been paid) sounds very dubious but I’m not an accountant. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:09 - Apr 18 with 744 views | bluefunk |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:45 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
So his accountant won't have found some other way to avoid paying the tax? |
There isn’t one that’s legal, even the old “directors loan” dodge/loophole ( where the company loaned money to a director without it ever getting repaid) has been closed. | | | |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:12 - Apr 18 with 738 views | sparks |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:19 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Yes, it is about those who can pay paying.
Would you rather a system where everyone pays the same?
What would you do about those who cannot afford to?
There is a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth as it is with the system we have.
My bigger problem is with the nature of taxation generally. Things like the loopholes you claim where I know rich people who pay very little tax because they pay themselves a very low wage and take massive earnings in dividends. When you get to the point where it is cost-effective to employ an accountant to save you paying tax shows there is a problem in the way the system works. |
Didnt say anything about everyone paying hte same.
What I think needs to be noted on occasion, is that higher taxpayers already pay a good deal more. Its a percentage- and there are things such as the child benefit removal and personal allowance removal (both tory policies by the way) which mean they already pay far more.
The argument is a sliding scale so they pay ever greater percentages. Not sure of the rationale for that, other than assumed ability to pay. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:13 - Apr 18 with 734 views | sparks |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 14:38 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I’ll get shot at for this but it’s worth pointing out that those taking payment in dividends are also paying large sums in corporation tax (unless they have some crooked way of increasing expenditure and minimising profits).
If the government doesn’t go after Amazon and others who are currently profiting hugely without paying anything into the exchequer then there’s something seriously wrong. |
Corp tax and dividends = less than higher rate tax by some distance I believe. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:14 - Apr 18 with 730 views | sparks |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 15:13 - Apr 18 by Plums |
I hope he sleeps well at night. That’s not a tightrope I’d want to be walking. |
That is the norm.
You take salary up to your tax allowance. Or perhaps to the lower rate limit. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:46 - Apr 18 with 716 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:12 - Apr 18 by sparks |
Didnt say anything about everyone paying hte same.
What I think needs to be noted on occasion, is that higher taxpayers already pay a good deal more. Its a percentage- and there are things such as the child benefit removal and personal allowance removal (both tory policies by the way) which mean they already pay far more.
The argument is a sliding scale so they pay ever greater percentages. Not sure of the rationale for that, other than assumed ability to pay. |
Sorry if I misread the initial post.
The idea is that as there is a basic standard of living that requires a certain income, anything earned above that is disposable capital to choose how you improve above that basic minimum. It seems reasonable to me that those who have more in that latter category pay a higher percentage of it.
Or to view it another way, the distribution of wealth in this country continues to become more uneven. Why should the richest have so much more than the poorest/average? Our current reliance on doctors, nurses, delivery drivers, shop attendants and shelf stackers betrays the idea that higher earners are inherently more worthy/valuable to society. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:51 - Apr 18 with 714 views | sparks |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:46 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Sorry if I misread the initial post.
The idea is that as there is a basic standard of living that requires a certain income, anything earned above that is disposable capital to choose how you improve above that basic minimum. It seems reasonable to me that those who have more in that latter category pay a higher percentage of it.
Or to view it another way, the distribution of wealth in this country continues to become more uneven. Why should the richest have so much more than the poorest/average? Our current reliance on doctors, nurses, delivery drivers, shop attendants and shelf stackers betrays the idea that higher earners are inherently more worthy/valuable to society. |
The point is that the nature of percentages means they already pay far more. I think the logic (other than ability to pay) of increasing the percentage is open to question.
As with most things, there is a continuum. There comes a point when you are effectively penalising success on ideological grounds. I know people who have not bothered applying for roles because of the 60% marginal rate and related pension issues. They would have more responsbiility for very little reward. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:56 - Apr 18 with 707 views | monytowbray |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:12 - Apr 18 by sparks |
Didnt say anything about everyone paying hte same.
What I think needs to be noted on occasion, is that higher taxpayers already pay a good deal more. Its a percentage- and there are things such as the child benefit removal and personal allowance removal (both tory policies by the way) which mean they already pay far more.
The argument is a sliding scale so they pay ever greater percentages. Not sure of the rationale for that, other than assumed ability to pay. |
I still find it funny you still swear you aren’t a Tory. |  |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:57 - Apr 18 with 710 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:51 - Apr 18 by sparks |
The point is that the nature of percentages means they already pay far more. I think the logic (other than ability to pay) of increasing the percentage is open to question.
As with most things, there is a continuum. There comes a point when you are effectively penalising success on ideological grounds. I know people who have not bothered applying for roles because of the 60% marginal rate and related pension issues. They would have more responsbiility for very little reward. |
I get what you are saying but would the same individual not likely have said "why bother with that extra responsibility when my £50K salary I already have gives me the lifestyle I want"? What would the extra £5K bring them that the extra £4K wouldn't? There will always be someone else who does chase after the money unless you really are punitive with the tax rate. I would be against ridiculous tax rates but the staged percentages seems reasonable to me. | |
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| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 17:00 - Apr 18 with 700 views | sparks |
| Inevitable tax rises after this is over ? on 16:57 - Apr 18 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I get what you are saying but would the same individual not likely have said "why bother with that extra responsibility when my £50K salary I already have gives me the lifestyle I want"? What would the extra £5K bring them that the extra £4K wouldn't? There will always be someone else who does chase after the money unless you really are punitive with the tax rate. I would be against ridiculous tax rates but the staged percentages seems reasonable to me. |
I am not convinced about the principle of increasing percentages.
You pay more as you earn more anyway. Not sure why you should pay even more as you earn more.
The suggested rates seem very punitive as well. 50% at 70k?
the elephant in the room, of course, is that higher rate payers are about 4m folks at the most? The lower raters are 26m odd. So in terms of raising revenue, just hitting the higher ones doesnt tend to do the job. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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