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1. The Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Rogue One 4. Revenge of the Sith 5. Return of the Jedi 6. Rise of Skywalker 7. The Phantom Menace 8. Solo: A Star Wars Story 9. The Last Jedi 10. The Force Awakens 11. Attack of the Clones
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:48 - May 18 by BrixtonBlue
No, Jedi's not my favourite. Empire is my favourite, but that's probably largely because it was the first film I ever saw in the cinema (of ANY film!) Imagine "Luke, I am your father" being the first thing you ever saw on a big screen as an impressionable child!
Jedi isn't a rehash - it's Luke completing the training he started with Obi Wan. TFA is every single original Star Wars trope repeated.
While TFA is clearly full of old troupes I think it's lazy to write it off, it's a good film and does have unique elements to it.
I think you have to consider it's purpose. Disney had just purchased Lucas Film for an astronomical amount of money and had to start making a return on it ASAP, they needed to produce something that would put Star Wars back into the public consciousness after just over a decade of absence, they also had to consider the fact that last time it was at the forefront of the public mind it went out with more of a whimper than a bang.
They didn't want to reboot everything so they made what I've seen referred to as "a soft reboot" a story which sat in the existing canon which echoed beats from previous films. Artistically most working on the film had no issue with this due to Lucas' previous assertions that the story is like poetry, each act a stanza that rhymes or mirrors another, it's inkeeping with this theme even if at times it's a little on the nose.
As I say there's some very interesting new threads and themes which often get overlooked when it's discussed.
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Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:57 - May 18 with 833 views
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:48 - May 18 by Libero
He is f*cking terrifying in that scene, really takes you back to being a kid.
When you contrast it to the Yoda scene in AOTC (which I do have a fanboy fondness for), it just works so much better on every level. It’s believable, terrifying and actually enhances what is an iconic character.
Some critics say that it makes the fight scenes in the original trilogy seem pedestrian just misses the point. He was just wasting a bunch of civilians - which is precisely what he does to Captain Antilles within the first five minutes of ANH - the fight with Obi Wan was the first time he had faced his mentor since he left him burning on the edge of a lava river...it’s not likely he would just charge at him and waste him.
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Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:00 - May 18 with 822 views
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:48 - May 18 by BrixtonBlue
No, Jedi's not my favourite. Empire is my favourite, but that's probably largely because it was the first film I ever saw in the cinema (of ANY film!) Imagine "Luke, I am your father" being the first thing you ever saw on a big screen as an impressionable child!
Jedi isn't a rehash - it's Luke completing the training he started with Obi Wan. TFA is every single original Star Wars trope repeated.
Agree to disagree. There's a lot of rehashing in all of the films, including Jedi as per my previous examples (another Death Star, apprentice turns on master again). It's a good film, I just prefer The Force Awakens, which as I said in a previous post may be because it was the first of the new Star Wars films that I actually genuinely enjoyed.
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:59 - May 18 by IPS_wich
When you contrast it to the Yoda scene in AOTC (which I do have a fanboy fondness for), it just works so much better on every level. It’s believable, terrifying and actually enhances what is an iconic character.
Some critics say that it makes the fight scenes in the original trilogy seem pedestrian just misses the point. He was just wasting a bunch of civilians - which is precisely what he does to Captain Antilles within the first five minutes of ANH - the fight with Obi Wan was the first time he had faced his mentor since he left him burning on the edge of a lava river...it’s not likely he would just charge at him and waste him.
Ah man, the thing is there are two explanations for the manner of the first fight on the Death Star...
1st, you've got the real life reason. It was 1977 and the individuals performing the duel were not trained in such things. Yes, compared duel of the fates it isn't dynamic but it still holds gravitas and tension on viewing it 40 odd years later. Obviously when the film was made they didn't expect to ever get green lit for a sequel, let alone for it to be cinematic Goliath that spanned over 40 years.
2nd, and bare with me because this is the nerdy response... When Vader and Obi-Wan meet on the Death Star it's theorised that this isn't the first time they've met since Obi-Wan left him burning on Mustafar. There's a line in ROTJ as Vader and Luke are duelling where Luke tells Vader he can feel the conflict within him and senses the good in him, Vader responds "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" - it's dangling thread that's desperate to be pulled.
There is currently an Obi-Wan Kenobi live-action TV show in development which is set during the time of Obi-Wan's isolation on Tatooine overlooking Luke, there's a chance that part of the plot will be a traumatised Obi-Wan making one last attempt to track down his former apprentice and turn him to the light.
Anyway, there's a chance that Vader is wary of Obi-Wan because of this and is treating the duel with extreme caution/conflicted throughout, his verbal pontifications are somewhat out of character as although Vader's no stranger to a sarcastic quip he doesn't often hold out and out conversations with people, if he really wanted Obi-Wan dead he would have just done it without having a natter.
There's a great lightsaber fight in the Animated show Star Wars Rebels where Obi-Wan dispatches a fan favourite character with a similar lack of athleticism and in 3/4 moves. The whole thing is so tense but is all done within 25/30 seconds.
Oh, and there's also a superb fan made re-imaging of the original death star duel using original footage and modern computer techniques which fans might be interested in.
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Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:22 - May 18 with 800 views
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:55 - May 18 by Libero
While TFA is clearly full of old troupes I think it's lazy to write it off, it's a good film and does have unique elements to it.
I think you have to consider it's purpose. Disney had just purchased Lucas Film for an astronomical amount of money and had to start making a return on it ASAP, they needed to produce something that would put Star Wars back into the public consciousness after just over a decade of absence, they also had to consider the fact that last time it was at the forefront of the public mind it went out with more of a whimper than a bang.
They didn't want to reboot everything so they made what I've seen referred to as "a soft reboot" a story which sat in the existing canon which echoed beats from previous films. Artistically most working on the film had no issue with this due to Lucas' previous assertions that the story is like poetry, each act a stanza that rhymes or mirrors another, it's inkeeping with this theme even if at times it's a little on the nose.
As I say there's some very interesting new threads and themes which often get overlooked when it's discussed.
Oh I appreciate the reasons for it. I guess I was just lucky enough to see the original when I was a kid, and TFA wasn't really aimed at me in that case.
I just think they went too far in copying what had gone before.
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:26 - May 18 by BrixtonBlue
Oh I appreciate the reasons for it. I guess I was just lucky enough to see the original when I was a kid, and TFA wasn't really aimed at me in that case.
I just think they went too far in copying what had gone before.
I can understand why it may be off putting to some. I suspect you'll really enjoy the Mandalorian, very different why still being very Star Wars.
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Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:44 - May 18 with 773 views
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:16 - May 18 by Libero
Ah man, the thing is there are two explanations for the manner of the first fight on the Death Star...
1st, you've got the real life reason. It was 1977 and the individuals performing the duel were not trained in such things. Yes, compared duel of the fates it isn't dynamic but it still holds gravitas and tension on viewing it 40 odd years later. Obviously when the film was made they didn't expect to ever get green lit for a sequel, let alone for it to be cinematic Goliath that spanned over 40 years.
2nd, and bare with me because this is the nerdy response... When Vader and Obi-Wan meet on the Death Star it's theorised that this isn't the first time they've met since Obi-Wan left him burning on Mustafar. There's a line in ROTJ as Vader and Luke are duelling where Luke tells Vader he can feel the conflict within him and senses the good in him, Vader responds "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" - it's dangling thread that's desperate to be pulled.
There is currently an Obi-Wan Kenobi live-action TV show in development which is set during the time of Obi-Wan's isolation on Tatooine overlooking Luke, there's a chance that part of the plot will be a traumatised Obi-Wan making one last attempt to track down his former apprentice and turn him to the light.
Anyway, there's a chance that Vader is wary of Obi-Wan because of this and is treating the duel with extreme caution/conflicted throughout, his verbal pontifications are somewhat out of character as although Vader's no stranger to a sarcastic quip he doesn't often hold out and out conversations with people, if he really wanted Obi-Wan dead he would have just done it without having a natter.
There's a great lightsaber fight in the Animated show Star Wars Rebels where Obi-Wan dispatches a fan favourite character with a similar lack of athleticism and in 3/4 moves. The whole thing is so tense but is all done within 25/30 seconds.
Oh, and there's also a superb fan made re-imaging of the original death star duel using original footage and modern computer techniques which fans might be interested in.
That reimagined thing is very well done but I still prefer the elegance and sophistication of the original. In this one Vadar punches Obi Wan a couple of times which is just silly.
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:44 - May 18 by BrixtonBlue
That reimagined thing is very well done but I still prefer the elegance and sophistication of the original. In this one Vadar punches Obi Wan a couple of times which is just silly.
Yeah me too, I think there's something very samurai about the style and control in original.
If you watch the clip in the video from the animated show above the re-imagined version Obi-Wan fights in exactly that controlled and measured style and dispatches his foe with ease. The tension they build between the two is very reminiscent of ANH. (fight starts about 1:10)
[Post edited 18 May 2020 13:50]
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Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 14:02 - May 18 with 756 views
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 13:48 - May 18 by Libero
Yeah me too, I think there's something very samurai about the style and control in original.
If you watch the clip in the video from the animated show above the re-imagined version Obi-Wan fights in exactly that controlled and measured style and dispatches his foe with ease. The tension they build between the two is very reminiscent of ANH. (fight starts about 1:10)
[Post edited 18 May 2020 13:50]
Yeah I did watch that as well, just not so much a fan of cartoons.
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 10:19 - May 18 by Libero
As Captain of the reigning Champions of Ipswich’s Star Wars Quiz I’m sure you’ve all been eagerly awaiting my official list...
1. Return of the Jedi 2. A New Hope 3. Rogue One 4. The Empire Strikes Back 5. The Force Awakens 6. The Phantom Menace 7. The Last Jedi 8. The Rise of Skywalker 9. Solo 10. Revenge of the Sith 11. Attack of the Clones
Although it the last 4 episodes of The Clone Wars could be considered as a film it’d be sat nicely between TLJ and TROS.
Although I'm a massive Star Wars fan, I'd never got round to watching Rise Of Skywalker. This thread prompted me to. Jesus, what a mess. It looks pretty, it's fast and exciting, but lots of it just doesn't make any sense with the original story.
Palpatine has suddenly come back to life, with no explanation?! WTF?!
The Force now gives you healing powers/the ability to bring people back from the dead?! Bit of a shame they didn't use it on everyone who died in all the previous movies! Anakin literally turned evil and became Darth Vadar in his quest to get healing powers and Rey just picks them up easy as that!
What on earth was the dagger all about? It shows the co-ordinates of the thing Rey was looking for on the wreck of one of the many old Death Stars... if you happen to be standing on the right spot and hold it at the right angle. What?!
The big reveal - Palpatine is Rey's grandad?!? You're having a laugh! It's just so forced (pardon the pun). And why is everyone in the Star Wars universe related to everyone else?! I just don't buy it.
People keep dying and then they're not... Chewy, C3PO, Kylo, Rey. This is just Disney trying to mess with our emotions, but if you keep doing it it just becomes silly.
Kylo Ren and Rey's kiss... I NEVER saw that coming, probably because there's never been any chemistry between them. They've always seemed like brother and sister (they probably are, I lose track of who's related to who).
WTF was that creepy scene with Lando and the girl at the end? "Where do you come from? Let's find out..." Excuse me?!
What did Finn want to tell Rey? They ended the movie before they remembered to answer that.
The only good thing about this movie (apart from the special effects - the space fight scenes were awesome) was Richard E Grant. He was very good as a new bad guy, although I don't know where his character has come from because he seems to have risen up the ranks from nowhere.
So yeah, in terms of the story itself, an absolute mess. I didn't even include horses running along the outside of a spaceship in the middle of space! You have to suspend a BIT of disbelief!
Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 08:07 - May 23 by BrixtonBlue
CONTAINS SPOILERS!!
Although I'm a massive Star Wars fan, I'd never got round to watching Rise Of Skywalker. This thread prompted me to. Jesus, what a mess. It looks pretty, it's fast and exciting, but lots of it just doesn't make any sense with the original story.
Palpatine has suddenly come back to life, with no explanation?! WTF?!
The Force now gives you healing powers/the ability to bring people back from the dead?! Bit of a shame they didn't use it on everyone who died in all the previous movies! Anakin literally turned evil and became Darth Vadar in his quest to get healing powers and Rey just picks them up easy as that!
What on earth was the dagger all about? It shows the co-ordinates of the thing Rey was looking for on the wreck of one of the many old Death Stars... if you happen to be standing on the right spot and hold it at the right angle. What?!
The big reveal - Palpatine is Rey's grandad?!? You're having a laugh! It's just so forced (pardon the pun). And why is everyone in the Star Wars universe related to everyone else?! I just don't buy it.
People keep dying and then they're not... Chewy, C3PO, Kylo, Rey. This is just Disney trying to mess with our emotions, but if you keep doing it it just becomes silly.
Kylo Ren and Rey's kiss... I NEVER saw that coming, probably because there's never been any chemistry between them. They've always seemed like brother and sister (they probably are, I lose track of who's related to who).
WTF was that creepy scene with Lando and the girl at the end? "Where do you come from? Let's find out..." Excuse me?!
What did Finn want to tell Rey? They ended the movie before they remembered to answer that.
The only good thing about this movie (apart from the special effects - the space fight scenes were awesome) was Richard E Grant. He was very good as a new bad guy, although I don't know where his character has come from because he seems to have risen up the ranks from nowhere.
So yeah, in terms of the story itself, an absolute mess. I didn't even include horses running along the outside of a spaceship in the middle of space! You have to suspend a BIT of disbelief!
Lots to unpack here but before I do I should say that I went to see it 4 times with various friends and family. I really enjoyed it every time I saw it in the cinema, felt it was a great spectacle even if it did have some very Star Wars issues with it, but the first time I watched it at home it was incredibly underwhelming and the breakneck speed and big visual effects didn't take me on the ride it did in the cinema on multiple occasions.
I dunno if you're aware but Abrams was never supposed to do this film, the fella that's done those piss poor Jurassic Park reboots was supposed to be the director, his script has leaked online and all I can say is i'm glad they didn't make THAT film.
Okay so, will start at the beginning...
"The Force now gives you healing powers/the ability to bring people back from the dead?! Bit of a shame they didn't use it on everyone who died in all the previous movies! Anakin literally turned evil and became Darth Vadar in his quest to get healing powers and Rey just picks them up easy as that!" - the force doesn't "give" you anything, it surrounds and binds all beings, it's not a magic power. There have been examples of force healing in every Star Wars property, the one you'll probably remember is when Obi-Wan finds Luke in the dessert on Tatooine and he touches him to bring him back round. Rey (and later Ben) gave away part of their life force in order to sustain/bring round/re-animate the other, it was a selfless act on the light side of the force. Anakin wanted to explore dark science and magic in order to keep both himself and Padme alive, ironically we can see what that leads to in this film with the emperor and it's not pretty... It's also worth pointing out that different jedi are in tune with different aspects of the force, it's not a case of one knows everything, as I say don't imagine "super powers" imagine it as Lucas has Obi-Wan describe in ANH.
What on earth was the dagger all about? It shows the co-ordinates of the thing Rey was looking for on the wreck of one of the many old Death Stars... if you happen to be standing on the right spot and hold it at the right angle. What?! It's goofy but I loved that, very Indiana Jones. I guess you could argue that the force led her to be standing in that exact spot and gave her the intuition to open it...
The big reveal - Palpatine is Rey's grandad?!? You're having a laugh! It's just so forced (pardon the pun). And why is everyone in the Star Wars universe related to everyone else?! I just don't buy it. I liked the message in this but felt the execution was sloppy. It's been publicised that Rian Johnson who directed TLJ took the Rey story in a real different direction than was set out, this felt like JJ was trying to clumsily pull it back round while not stepping toooo hard on TLJ's good bits. I find it hard to swallow but as with most things like this in the SW universe I'm sure there will be additional material which will make it sit better with me over time. Again though, the message is great; you're not defined by the actions of your family, no one is inherently evil, nor inherently good, etc. It's all about the choices we make and the paths we take.
People keep dying and then they're not... Chewy, C3PO, Kylo, Rey. This is just Disney trying to mess with our emotions, but if you keep doing it it just becomes silly. i think that's a wider SW troupe tbh. You ever heard of Force Ghosts... lol I enjoyed the Chewie fake out and found C3P0 in the film real on point, many lols. Ben's sacrifice at the end was the perfect end to his arc in my opinion, although from earlier in conversation in this thread I understand why it may have been underwhelming for you as you didn't think much of his charcter.
Kylo Ren and Rey's kiss... I NEVER saw that coming, probably because there's never been any chemistry between them. They've always seemed like brother and sister (they probably are, I lose track of who's related to who). Genuinely surprised that you were surprised by this. The moment they touch hands in the hut in TLJ was described by director Rian Johnson as "the closest thing to a sex scene you'll see in Star Wars" that whole film was littered with a will they, won't they tension - to the point that there's actually a fan cult called "Reylos" who before this happened in TROS spent A LOT of time and effort making podcasts about it, making fan art, talking about it no stop on internet forums, etc. i think it was the one thing that was nailed on no matter what direction they went with the story, two people who inexcpliity understand each other like no one else, that have shared a bond and are very similar to one another, again I guess as you didn't think much of Kylo beyond the poor Vader impression the seeding in other films may have passed you by.
WTF was that creepy scene with Lando and the girl at the end? "Where do you come from? Let's find out..." Excuse me?! That was a last minute alteration - the original version of the scene was a call back to a cut scene where Lando say's that the First Order took his daughter and they insinuate more family links. Thankfully they decided against that, but it was weird to repurpose the scene into what it is now, I guess they wanted Lando at the end of the film and that's all they had? It certainly seemed to promise future adventures that I doubt they are going to deliver on...
What did Finn want to tell Rey? They ended the movie before they remembered to answer that. Again, I'm surprised this passed you by. One of my favourite parts of the film. Finn is clearly force sensitive. When he talks to Jana (sp?) when he instinctively knows where the signal is coming from on the cruiser, when he senses that Rey is okay, he's in touch with the force and maybe has been ever since The Force Awakens, the conversation between Finn and Jana when they fixed the ship insinuated that the reason that Finn and later Stormtroopers rebelled against their programming and training was because of being in touch with the force, I loved that. You don't have to be a full jedi to be in tune with the force, see Chirrut ÃŽmwe One for example... It was later confirmed post film by JJ Abrams that this is what Finn wanted to tell Rey.
The only good thing about this movie (apart from the special effects - the space fight scenes were awesome) was Richard E Grant. He was very good as a new bad guy, although I don't know where his character has come from because he seems to have risen up the ranks from nowhere. There's literally exposition in the film where he's talking to Palpatine via hologram. "as I served you in the old wars, I will serve you in the new" That means he was either part of the Imperial reminent/a warlord who was picked up by the First Order/a sleeper agent placed by Palps in the event of his resurrection.
So yeah, in terms of the story itself, an absolute mess. I didn't even include horses running along the outside of a spaceship in the middle of space! You have to suspend a BIT of disbelief! It is a shambles and the breakneck speed doesn't help as it means a lot of things pass you by if you're really not paying attention. It took me till my 3rd watch to realise a lot of the things I'm talking about here... They're not running on a spaceship in the middle of space though. They're in the planets atmosphere, remember when Palpatine opened the celling roof and Rey looked up and could actually see the battle happening above her? She then looks past it, beyond it, into space, the galaxy, a world between worlds on another plane and communicates with the jedi passed (although one of them isn't confirmed dead in canon and it's been insinuated she may be alive) - again though, that took me a few views to figure and my instant reaction was the same as yours.
I enjoy the film but have my own issues. Number one is Palpatines Son, they're going to need to do some reaaaaaaally good weaving in and out of canon to give an explanation about how and why he passed through the net, but I'm sure they will so I'm just parking it. I'm also a bit gutted that Matt Smith pulled out of playing Palpatine's son as I think visually he's a better fit, thought it was cool that Rey's Mum was Jodie Comer from Killing Eve though.
Other than that my only other unanswered question is about Snoke. We see bodies resembling Snoke's on Exogol in the Emperors lair, he insinuates he was Snoke with the "I have been every voice, you have ever heard inside your head" line to Kylo early on. - so was Snoke a puppet of Palpatines? Or is that just an elaboration on Palps proclaiming he is "all of the sith" (which I took to be metaphorical, he has the collection of all their knowledge, just as Rey now has the collection of all the jedi knowledge from the texts, etc)
In my head canon currently Snoke is a dark side user that preceded Palpatine that Palpatine ressurected alongside him to use for his nefarious and complicated plan, he used the same dark science and magic body regeneration techniques which is why Snoke looks so gnarly and why there were two Snoke bodies in jars, they'd need replacing regularly as the dark side of the force corrupted their physical being (think the early shot with Palpy's fingers rotting away) - i'm basing that purely off what I saw in TROS and a line that was cut from TFA where Snoke say's he has seen "the rise and fall of the galactic empire"
Anyway, yeah, some real fair criticisms in there. Ultimatly not my favourite but by no means the worst one going - was alwaysssss a bit of a poison chalice, i'm just glad they've drawn a line under the story and will now be focusing on telling stories in other parts of the galaxy like in the Mandolorian, etc.
If you've any other Star Wars based questions/points of contention, fire them at me, I f*cking love this sh1t :')
Libero - Team Captain of Yates, Ipswich Star Wars Quiz 2019 Champions. xoxo
[Post edited 23 May 2020 10:34]
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Star Wars films ranked in order of preference on 12:26 - May 23 with 547 views
The three best are New Hope, Empire and Rogue One. Rogue One is so far better than any of the prequels/sequels that you have to ask why its director wasn't asked to do at least one of the latest three sequels, preferably all of them. JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson produced a load of sh*t.
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