Forum | Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. by Coco

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Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. 14:30 - Aug 7 with 16380 views

Clear route to the first team. Excellent coaching. Clear strategy. Brilliant recruitment.

But we don't.

	#SellUpMarcusEvans #LambertOUT // Sent from my iphone - which explains all the felling spuck ups
Poll:	When we're finally freed from Mick McCarthy would you like to see Burley as DoF?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:01 - Aug 7 with 5222 views

positivity

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 14:56 - Aug 7 by Libero

It might be relevant if he was some kind of Dinosaur, but George was a coach first and foremost, he worked with players, improved them as individuals and knew how to piece them together into a team.

George's sides were balanced, contained Academy players, supplemented by solid purchases, Premier League youths that had been released and experienced pros who helped guide the side.

We're losing our identity as a club and are working under more and more restrictions, our one saving grace is the Academy. No Manager coming in would understand the benefits of the Academy as well as George, he has worked with many of it's staff before and has a history wherever he has been of bringing through youth players, he has touched the careers of some of the UK's best players over his career, many of whom are still playing.

To suggest he's out of touch is an absolute LOL.

can anyone think of a manager who's had a decade out of the game who's been "in touch" enough to make a successful return?

i'm struggling to think of any, but willing to listen to exceptions

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:02 - Aug 7 with 5212 views

Coco

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:01 - Aug 7 by positivity
can anyone think of a manager who's had a decade out of the game who's been "in touch" enough to make a successful return? i'm struggling to think of any, but willing to listen to exceptions

Dalglish?

	#SellUpMarcusEvans #LambertOUT // Sent from my iphone - which explains all the felling spuck ups
Poll:	When we're finally freed from Mick McCarthy would you like to see Burley as DoF?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:02 - Aug 7 with 5211 views

Illinoisblue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 14:39 - Aug 7 by Libero
Right here, right now, Burley's the only man for the job. Tony Mowbray would also be a good fit, but why would he want to come here? When Lambert is sacked I really, really, really hope they give it to George, let's just hope it happens before we lose all identity as a club.

We’re all singing “Right here, right now... doo doo doo...” aren’t we?

	62 - 78 - 81
Poll:	What sport is the most corrupt?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:04 - Aug 7 with 5197 views

positivity

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:01 - Aug 7 by Coco
ðŸ¤· Pochettino got sacked by Spurs! Wouldn't want him either.

spurs weren't second bottom of the championship with no wins from 5 though were they!

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:05 - Aug 7 with 5190 views

BrixtonBlue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 14:55 - Aug 7 by Mach_foreignBlue
And got sacked by Palace.

Oh yeah, how terrible for us to get a Premier League cast off.

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:07 - Aug 7 with 5175 views

BloomBlue

They were so good we got relegated from the Prem

-3

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:07 - Aug 7 with 5173 views

positivity

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:02 - Aug 7 by Coco
Dalglish?

that's a good one, though he left on his own terms rather than being sacked from his previous 3 jobs (i'm not counting hearts as that was an unjust sacking based more on personality than the job he was doing)

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:08 - Aug 7 with 5168 views

Coco

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:07 - Aug 7 by BloomBlue
They were so good we got relegated from the Prem

Reeeeeeeeaaaalllyyyyyyy?

	#SellUpMarcusEvans #LambertOUT // Sent from my iphone - which explains all the felling spuck ups
Poll:	When we're finally freed from Mick McCarthy would you like to see Burley as DoF?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:09 - Aug 7 with 5166 views

positivity

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:05 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue
Oh yeah, how terrible for us to get a Premier League cast off.

palace weren't premier league then, they were 43rd!

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:09 - Aug 7 with 5160 views

Libero

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 14:59 - Aug 7 by positivity
ok, salary cap, modern player mentality, inability to bring in the magiltons/stewarts/moggas who were so key in getting the team over the line, tactics, formations, marcus evans cf sheepy, the modern academy structure and it's weighting towards category 1 clubs, improved coaching quality elsewhere your turn!

Salary cap
This is new to all the managers in the league...

Modern Player mentality
You're going to need to be more specific, what is it that you believe is so different to today's player to that for 2011's

Inability to bring in the Magiltons/Stewarts/Moggas who were so key in getting the team over the line
You're pulling this out of thin air, I am sure Burley would still manage to supplement his teams with players who have achieved a relevant amount of experience to play the senior pro role you're describing.

Tactics
Any particular element of tactics you're concerned about? Because George Burley had his teams playing 3 at the back for a good period of the 90's and playing out from the back, again you're being far too general and your concerns are not justified.

Formation
I can't believe I'm bothering to respond to this dribble piece by piece.
As I've already stated above, George was tactically ahead of his time, I have seen Burley's Ipswich play 3-5-2, 4-4-2, 3-4-3, 4-3-3, which formation are you concerned about exactly?!

Marcus Evans instead of David Sheepshanks
In truth this is the biggest stumbling block and one that only George knows if he could live with, however he has thrown his hat into the ring multiple times, this suggests he thinks it's a situation he can operate in.

the modern academy structure and it's weighting towards Category 1 clubs
How would this effect George Burley's job?
He wouldn't be taking an active role in the Academy, he would simply be providing a pathway to the first team for those that he and his staff felt posses the requisite skill or potential.

Improved coaching quality elsewhere
You're reaching so hard to discredit him, this is just plain and simply b0llocks.

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:11 - Aug 7 with 5145 views

Libero

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:01 - Aug 7 by positivity
can anyone think of a manager who's had a decade out of the game who's been "in touch" enough to make a successful return? i'm struggling to think of any, but willing to listen to exceptions

Kenny Daglish and Kevin Keegan are the two that come to mind from my era.
Daglish is the most relevant comparison, in my opinion.

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:14 - Aug 7 with 5135 views

BrixtonBlue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 14:59 - Aug 7 by positivity
ok, salary cap, modern player mentality, inability to bring in the magiltons/stewarts/moggas who were so key in getting the team over the line, tactics, formations, marcus evans cf sheepy, the modern academy structure and it's weighting towards category 1 clubs, improved coaching quality elsewhere your turn!

The salary cap literally cam in hours ago. I don't see how it would make things harder for Burley than any other ITFC manager.
What is different about modern players' mentalities?
Not sure why he wouldn't be able to bring in players like you've stated, unless you're referring to the wage cap again - which means you're counting that twice.
Tactics?! What's so different about the tactics now? Please list some modern tactic Burley won't know about.
Formations?!? You're basically repeating tactics and hoping no-one notices!
Evans? Don't know the relevance here, or why Burley would struggle more with him than any other ITFC manager.
Modern academy structure? We have some great kids. One of Burley's best attributes was bringing kids on. Don't know how the structure would stop him coaching our best young players to be better.
Improved coaching quality elsewhere?!? What on earth does this mean?!

Load of old nonsense, frankly.

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:16 - Aug 7 with 5124 views

Libero

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:14 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue

I'm yet to see any one who uses the "he's been out the game too long" line to make any kind of pertinent point that discredits Burley's candidacy.

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:18 - Aug 7 with 5116 views

BrixtonBlue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:09 - Aug 7 by positivity
palace weren't premier league then, they were 43rd!

Regardless, why are we so great that we shouldn't have a Palace cast off?

Who do you think we could get who HASN'T been sacked by a club much higher up than us, but who we'd be grateful for?

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:19 - Aug 7 with 5111 views

positivity

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:09 - Aug 7 by Libero

salary cap isn't as new to managers used to working on a tight budget (much tighter than limassol, palace, soton, hearts & ipswich!)

a young player is on superstar wages now, we couldjn't have kept a dyer/wright etc happy for that long in league one

it's not possible to bring in magics/moggas etc with a salary cap

tactics/formation, nope just general, older managers generally struggle as time goes by. even a master like mourinho is struggling to adapt despite being in constant employment

burley had massive backing (too much in the end) from sheepy, he'd not get that from evans. even if it were possible, you can't see evans rescuing us with a stewart type signing.

the academy structure is massive. so many of the best young players are stolen away by the category a teams, that it's doubtful whether we could ever get the scowies/wrights/dyers in the first place, let alone hang onto them when they showed any promise (see flores/brown/knight/benyu)

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

-1

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:24 - Aug 7 with 5092 views

jayessess

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:16 - Aug 7 by Libero
I'm yet to see any one who uses the "he's been out the game too long" line to make any kind of pertinent point that discredits Burley's candidacy.

Not wholly opposed, but... my worry would be that the physical side of the game is totally different from when Burley was last Ipswich boss. Players in 2020 are, generally speaking, expected to be faster, fitter and stronger than they were 20 years ago.

Now, I'm sure that's something you could work around - hire someone to take on that side of the game. But, there are knock on effects on how teams play, how other teams restrict what your team can do, how you identify players. I expect it shapes how you train and set up tactically too.

Blog:

What Now? Taking a Look at Life in League One

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:25 - Aug 7 with 5087 views

positivity

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:18 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue
Regardless, why are we so great that we shouldn't have a Palace cast off? Who do you think we could get who HASN'T been sacked by a club much higher up than us, but who we'd be grateful for?

an up and coming manager (someone like burley was in 1995, not a 64 year old version who's done nothing decent in 10 years!)

he's not a palace cast off anyway, he's an apollon limassol cast off (nine years ago) and hasn't worked since

Poll:

do you do judo and/or do you do voodoo?

-3

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:29 - Aug 7 with 5077 views

BrixtonBlue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:16 - Aug 7 by Libero
I'm yet to see any one who uses the "he's been out the game too long" line to make any kind of pertinent point that discredits Burley's candidacy.

Frankly, we've tried experienced managers, we've tried up and coming managers. One thing we haven't tried since Magilton is someone who understands ITFC, bleeds blue and white, and has real passion for the club. I reckon that's worth something. Marginal gains springs to mind. We can't buy our way out of this so we need to try something else.

Burley, with Dyer alongside learning the ropes, is the only thing I can think of that would really excite me about ITFC now. It's the only thing I can think of that would give us a little edge. And frankly, we haven't really much left to lose.

If Evans tried that and it didn't work, I'd at least say "fair enough, you tried everything."

Nothing else would unite the fans more, as well. Just the positivity alone would be worth a few extra points. And any 'out of touch' claims can be dispelled with Dyer's input.

I'd also get Warky involved as 'Scoring From Corners' coach. I'm not even joking! These people are all we have left that's great about ITFC. Let's utilise them, I say.

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:32 - Aug 7 with 5068 views

Libero

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:19 - Aug 7 by positivity

salary cap isn't as new to managers used to working on a tight budget (much tighter than limassol, palace, soton, hearts & ipswich!)
The salary cap is literally hours old, don't try and tell me it's not new.
You clearly don't know much about some of the situations George has had to work in, in the past, I'd say he's very well versed in following budgetary constraints.

a young player is on superstar wages now, we couldjn't have kept a dyer/wright etc happy for that long in league one
Sorry? What is your point? Players get paid more? Well yeah, although as we've already established they've just brought in a salary cap...
Which of our young players is on "superstar wages"?
You're quite literally making no sense, the closest thing to logic I can make from your point is that you think that because some of our young players leave at an earlier age than they did in Burley's previous tenure, the job Burley does will be affected?
Well that's the case for all managers...

it's not possible to bring in magics/moggas etc with a salary cap
Magilton wasn't wanted at Wednesday, Mowbray not wanted at Celtic.
Players will still move clubs, even before today's news the transfer market was in turmoil thanks to Covid-19, you cannot say with any authority that it will stop players with a certain profile moving to club X, Y, Z - it's too early, we just don't know what trends will develop yet.
Regardless, Burley's teams were just that, teams. He was a master at piecing a team together and making the whole greater than the sum of it's parts.

tactics/formation, nope just general, older managers generally struggle as time goes by. even a master like mourinho is struggling to adapt despite being in constant employment
Again, spurious b0llocks reinforced by an irrelevant example.
It's a side bar, but I'd say Mourinho's issues are more about his man management and how he relates with players now he is an older gentleman, he is still the astute tactician.

burley had massive backing (too much in the end) from sheepy, he'd not get that from evans. even if it were possible, you can't see evans rescuing us with a stewart type signing.
Premier League demise aside, Burley ran the club with Sheepshanks very, very well. Year on year we would sell a player and replace them with someone who cost less, when we sold Dyer we didn't really go for a like -for-like replacement, I believe McGreal, J.Wright and Croft came in, Stewart arrived later but I believe he was paid for by the Dyer money? Although I also seem to remember having a chat with Phil on here a few months ago where he said otherwise? Either way.

the academy structure is massive. so many of the best young players are stolen away by the category a teams, that it's doubtful whether we could ever get the scowies/wrights/dyers in the first place, let alone hang onto them when they showed any promise (see flores/brown/knight/benyu)
Sorry mate, but you're exposing yourself as a bit out of touch here by putting Benyu in amongst those names, Benyu wasn't considered anywhere near as bright a prospect as the other names mentioned.
I've already answered this point in my previous response anyway...

So yeah, still no really pertinent point that discredits Burley's application.

Any one else got anything?

[Post edited 7 Aug 2020 15:33]

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:34 - Aug 7 with 5056 views

Libero

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:24 - Aug 7 by jayessess

That's a fair point, however it's not George who will creating their fitness plans - we have a whole Sports Science team to cover that!

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:35 - Aug 7 with 5055 views

BrixtonBlue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:25 - Aug 7 by positivity
an up and coming manager (someone like burley was in 1995, not a 64 year old version who's done nothing decent in 10 years!) he's not a palace cast off anyway, he's an apollon limassol cast off (nine years ago) and hasn't worked since

We've tried a couple of up and coming managers. i'd rather go for someone who bleeds blue and white now.

I still don't understand why you think he's forgotten how to coach in 10 years. I've also suggested Dyer alongside him, who will know all these fabled new techniques you talk about but can't actually list.

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:38 - Aug 7 with 5042 views

hype313

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:16 - Aug 7 by Libero
I'm yet to see any one who uses the "he's been out the game too long" line to make any kind of pertinent point that discredits Burley's candidacy.

Given that our current manager is "In" with the current times, and making an absolute pigs ar5e of things, I fail to see how Burley couldn't come in and improve things.

For someone to say he has been out of the game too long is absolute boll0cks, it's not like he's coming from 1950's to the 2020's ffs, he isn't dealing with guys that smoked and drank to excess and came into to pre season 3 stone overweight.

Poll:

Simpson - Keep, Sell or Loan

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:39 - Aug 7 with 5036 views

BrixtonBlue

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:24 - Aug 7 by jayessess

Not really sure how players being fitter, faster and stronger (if indeed they are) makes a lot of difference to Burley's coaching style. That's down to the players, surely? Or was he only good at coaching slow players?

Why 20 years ago, as well? Burley was a manager 9 years ago. I'm not sure players are that much fitter than they were 9 years ago.

	I bet Bloots will downarrow this.
Poll:	If you work in an office, when are you off over Christmas (not booked holiday)?

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:42 - Aug 7 with 5027 views

jayessess

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:34 - Aug 7 by Libero
That's a fair point, however it's not George who will creating their fitness plans - we have a whole Sports Science team to cover that!

Definitely, but I don't think it'd necessarily fitness plans and sports science stuff that are the problem exactly (like you say, we have people for that), but the way those different levels of fitness bleed into the more conventional aspects of managing/coaching the team.

Do you end up recruiting players whose attitude/fitness would've been fine in 2000, but not now? Do you set up in ways that become a problem when the opposition can physically do things they couldn't do 2 decades ago?

[Post edited 7 Aug 2020 15:45]

Blog:

What Now? Taking a Look at Life in League One

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:42 - Aug 7 with 5025 views

Libero

Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:39 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue
Not really sure how players being fitter, faster and stronger (if indeed they are) makes a lot of difference to Burley's coaching style. That's down to the players, surely? Or was he only good at coaching slow players? Why 20 years ago, as well? Burley was a manager 9 years ago. I'm not sure players are that much fitter than they were 9 years ago.

I get his point, but I think a lot of people don't really realise that it's a collaborative effort these days and that teams have departments for various things which then report back to the manager/general manager/director of football depending on their chosen structure.

The information will be presented in a digestible way by a member of the department and then it's up to the manager to potentially utilise the information.

There won't be many Football Managers sat at home stressing about a dietary plan or gym routine for their player...

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