| Starmer quits (n/t) 19:36 - Jan 2 with 6646 views | ericclacton |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 15:56 - Jan 3 with 1025 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 14:59 - Jan 3 by Ryorry |
"It was hard left ideology"
...and shilly-shallying indecisiveness, going with whatever seemed to be the way the wind was blowing in popularity, weakness in leadership. Even when he was no longer leader, inability to make a whole-hearted apology - for the good of the LP - for the anti-semitism that occurred on his watch, instead making excuses for himself. Etc. |
Still waiting for you or GB to give me a specific hard-left policy or bit of his ideology.
And your shilly-shallying is similarly just narrative bobbins. How is Starmer different from that if not worse? |  |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:01 - Jan 3 with 998 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 14:57 - Jan 3 by Darth_Koont |
Which of those is hard left? You find those opinions throughout European mainstream socialism and social democracy.
The labelling of this as hard left is at best ignorant but if intentional then it’s nothing short of propaganda.
Edit: I’m going to step around the casually lobbed in AS there too. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 14:59]
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How the fook is being anti west, anti Semitic, pro terror groups and sympathetic to people who commit chemical attacks in British towns, opinions that are common in European mainstream socialism and social democracy? |  |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:16 - Jan 3 with 979 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:01 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
How the fook is being anti west, anti Semitic, pro terror groups and sympathetic to people who commit chemical attacks in British towns, opinions that are common in European mainstream socialism and social democracy? |
Same old hyperbole from you. Why is he “pro terror”?
Talking/working with the IRA or Hamas or any other terrorist group towards peace isn’t hard left. Supporting the underlying causes of Irish republicanism or Palestine freedom isn’t hard left.
It’s just nonsense designed to smear. | |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:18 - Jan 3 with 965 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:16 - Jan 3 by Darth_Koont |
Same old hyperbole from you. Why is he “pro terror”?
Talking/working with the IRA or Hamas or any other terrorist group towards peace isn’t hard left. Supporting the underlying causes of Irish republicanism or Palestine freedom isn’t hard left.
It’s just nonsense designed to smear. |
Been there, done this, linked the occasions he supported terror groups. Don’t intend to start 2021 wasting my time doing it again. He’s been consigned to the dustbin of political failure. Get over Corbyn and get behind the only viable alternative to the Tories. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 17:20]
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:28 - Jan 3 with 943 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:18 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Been there, done this, linked the occasions he supported terror groups. Don’t intend to start 2021 wasting my time doing it again. He’s been consigned to the dustbin of political failure. Get over Corbyn and get behind the only viable alternative to the Tories. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 17:20]
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So you can’t actually point to it and why it’s hard left. Just: “Scary label!!!”
No wonder you’re politically lost. You can’t even read the map. | |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:28 - Jan 3 with 943 views | bournemouthblue |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 16:18 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Been there, done this, linked the occasions he supported terror groups. Don’t intend to start 2021 wasting my time doing it again. He’s been consigned to the dustbin of political failure. Get over Corbyn and get behind the only viable alternative to the Tories. [Post edited 3 Jan 2021 17:20]
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I'm sure the irony of Boris' Brexit deal for Northern Ireland has been on lost on many people, given all the nonsense thrown at Corbyn over the years |  |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 18:12 - Jan 3 with 861 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 15:56 - Jan 3 by Darth_Koont |
Still waiting for you or GB to give me a specific hard-left policy or bit of his ideology.
And your shilly-shallying is similarly just narrative bobbins. How is Starmer different from that if not worse? |
1. It's not a single issue, it's the accumulated heap - eg. their 2019 manifesto - fine to have a few of those things in there, but not all of them - the "all of them" is what freaked the Dec 19 electorate out.
2. Starmer is 3+ years away from a GE.
Sorry my having stuff to do away from the internet meant you had to wait a whole 3 hours for a reply - some of us have a real life that we need to get on with  |  |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 19:10 - Jan 3 with 830 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 18:12 - Jan 3 by Ryorry |
1. It's not a single issue, it's the accumulated heap - eg. their 2019 manifesto - fine to have a few of those things in there, but not all of them - the "all of them" is what freaked the Dec 19 electorate out.
2. Starmer is 3+ years away from a GE.
Sorry my having stuff to do away from the internet meant you had to wait a whole 3 hours for a reply - some of us have a real life that we need to get on with |
He’s hard left because he’s too social democratic?
Actually, I think you’ve summed the UK perspective up quite well. | |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 19:35 - Jan 3 with 800 views | CrayonKing |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 19:10 - Jan 3 by Darth_Koont |
He’s hard left because he’s too social democratic?
Actually, I think you’ve summed the UK perspective up quite well. |
if he's not "hard left" then what was he actually offering that was any different to a "normal" labour government? Genuine question to try and understand the love. Not trying to make a point. |  | | |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 20:17 - Jan 3 with 763 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 19:35 - Jan 3 by CrayonKing |
if he's not "hard left" then what was he actually offering that was any different to a "normal" labour government? Genuine question to try and understand the love. Not trying to make a point. |
If you mean normal, then Blair and Brown’s governments were soft capitalism and the sort of light touch you can have in many Northern European and Scandinavian countries because of decades of social democracy and investment in society that have gone on before it.
Corbyn’s Labour was different in that he was proposing measures that were much more structural, systemic and long overdue. Having lived in Scandinavia and seen socialism and genuine social democracy in action, his proposals were on a par with starting to move the UK back on track for the 21st century.
And none of which would mean that capitalism wouldn’t have room to breathe and still be the engine of growth. Again, people need to look past the frankly false socio-economic terms they’ve been sold by repeated UK and US power-junkies that dominate our political landscape. These “hard left” countries outperform us on most social measures but critically productivity where the failings of our approach are becoming most apparent.
There’s no “love” for Corbyn per se. But by Christ it was good to see an opposition party look like they actually got it and might snap us out of the fever dream and start making the UK a better place to live for everyone. | |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 10:26 - Jan 4 with 655 views | CrayonKing |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 20:17 - Jan 3 by Darth_Koont |
If you mean normal, then Blair and Brown’s governments were soft capitalism and the sort of light touch you can have in many Northern European and Scandinavian countries because of decades of social democracy and investment in society that have gone on before it.
Corbyn’s Labour was different in that he was proposing measures that were much more structural, systemic and long overdue. Having lived in Scandinavia and seen socialism and genuine social democracy in action, his proposals were on a par with starting to move the UK back on track for the 21st century.
And none of which would mean that capitalism wouldn’t have room to breathe and still be the engine of growth. Again, people need to look past the frankly false socio-economic terms they’ve been sold by repeated UK and US power-junkies that dominate our political landscape. These “hard left” countries outperform us on most social measures but critically productivity where the failings of our approach are becoming most apparent.
There’s no “love” for Corbyn per se. But by Christ it was good to see an opposition party look like they actually got it and might snap us out of the fever dream and start making the UK a better place to live for everyone. |
Cheers for the reply.
On the face of it none of that seems particularly different to what the "centrists" want. Scandinavia is often held up as an example to follow and doesn't seem particularly radical or "hard left" to me. When you say Social Democracy my first impression is of European centre-left parties which don't seem hugely different to a Starmer-led Labour Party, or even New Labour, when it comes down to it.
Seems like the divide is more centred around style of leadership than actual policy. I don't recall too many centrists hating the last manifesto or complaining it was too "hard left", although I could be wrong (and I'll hold my hands up and say I haven't read it). The issues with Corbyn tended to be about leadership and his electability with the wider public rather than policy itself, certainly from my point of view.
Likewise most of the issues with Starmer seem to be about style of leadership and his identity as a "centrist", not policy.
From the outside it all comes across a bit Judean People's Front v People's Front of Judea tbh. Identity politics of "left" vs "centre-left" when, if you look at actual policies, you want pretty much the same things.
All IMHO of course, and I'm not a labour member or particularly knowledgeable of internal Labour Party politics, but that's how it seems from the outside to me. | | | |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 10:43 - Jan 4 with 632 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 10:26 - Jan 4 by CrayonKing |
Cheers for the reply.
On the face of it none of that seems particularly different to what the "centrists" want. Scandinavia is often held up as an example to follow and doesn't seem particularly radical or "hard left" to me. When you say Social Democracy my first impression is of European centre-left parties which don't seem hugely different to a Starmer-led Labour Party, or even New Labour, when it comes down to it.
Seems like the divide is more centred around style of leadership than actual policy. I don't recall too many centrists hating the last manifesto or complaining it was too "hard left", although I could be wrong (and I'll hold my hands up and say I haven't read it). The issues with Corbyn tended to be about leadership and his electability with the wider public rather than policy itself, certainly from my point of view.
Likewise most of the issues with Starmer seem to be about style of leadership and his identity as a "centrist", not policy.
From the outside it all comes across a bit Judean People's Front v People's Front of Judea tbh. Identity politics of "left" vs "centre-left" when, if you look at actual policies, you want pretty much the same things.
All IMHO of course, and I'm not a labour member or particularly knowledgeable of internal Labour Party politics, but that's how it seems from the outside to me. |
Don’t mention Judea in a reply to Koonters ffs. | |
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| Starmer quits (n/t) on 11:43 - Jan 4 with 593 views | CrayonKing |
| Starmer quits (n/t) on 11:15 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
The loons are getting rather excited by the prospect. The state of some of these replies.
and the solution would be the second coming of the messiah
[Post edited 3 Jan 2021 11:18]
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geez. Some of those are completely deranged!
That's not a "hard left" v "centre" policy divide. That's just a bunch of hate-filled loons ranting! Half of those comments would be just as at-home on a Trump/qAnon page.
Edit: I'm not inferring that these comments are in any way representative of "the left" and Corbynites in general, and every village has its idiots. But wow. I hope the decent ones (footers, DK et al) massively outnumber the loons! [Post edited 4 Jan 2021 11:49]
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