| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:44 - Jul 16 with 1229 views | noggin |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:40 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I think.there's quite a bit of.ignorance, deliberate or otherwise, about what China is like these days.
Communist it is not. |
And China has just been feeding our consumerism. It's too easy to blame China for their C02 output. |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:48 - Jul 16 with 1221 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:40 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I think.there's quite a bit of.ignorance, deliberate or otherwise, about what China is like these days.
Communist it is not. |
I’m well aware.
It’s not communist, but you will find much of their energy production and distribution is state owned. -not capitalist |  | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 10:33 - Jul 16 with 1161 views | CoachRob |
We saw with Covid and the dreadful Great Barrington Declaration that anti-science is uppermost in the minds of our leaders, Rishi Sunak invited the proponents of this rubbish to meet him.
The lead author of Working Group Three of the IPCC report believes that at 10C (he used Kelvin) rise in average temperatures can be mitigated by moving indoors. Climate economics is amongst the most powerful and dangerous anti-science which undoubtedly will be referenced by those wishing to stop any change happening.
https://mobile.twitter.com/theresphysics/status/1409538423078244352 |  | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 10:44 - Jul 16 with 1144 views | CoachRob |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:48 - Jul 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I’m well aware.
It’s not communist, but you will find much of their energy production and distribution is state owned. -not capitalist |
What system has lead to the exponential rise in useful energy being required to sustain and grow our civilisation? | | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:00 - Jul 16 with 1136 views | XYZ |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:48 - Jul 16 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I’m well aware.
It’s not communist, but you will find much of their energy production and distribution is state owned. -not capitalist |
Who's buying their output? | | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:01 - Jul 16 with 1133 views | chicoazul |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 08:40 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I think.there's quite a bit of.ignorance, deliberate or otherwise, about what China is like these days.
Communist it is not. |
What do you think it is then? |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:03 - Jul 16 with 1130 views | DanTheMan |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:01 - Jul 16 by chicoazul |
What do you think it is then? |
Not OP but State Capitalism. |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:18 - Jul 16 with 1116 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 10:44 - Jul 16 by CoachRob |
What system has lead to the exponential rise in useful energy being required to sustain and grow our civilisation? |
Knowing you're some kind of economist, I say the following with my heart in my mouth, but wasn't the Soviet Union even more dirty and polluting?
I only ask as it strikes me that the prevalent system isn't the root cause - it's human selfishness. |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:19 - Jul 16 with 1113 views | chicoazul |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:03 - Jul 16 by DanTheMan |
Not OP but State Capitalism. |
I broadly agree. It is also a very sinister Leninist dictatorship. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:30 - Jul 16 with 1087 views | XYZ |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:19 - Jul 16 by chicoazul |
I broadly agree. It is also a very sinister Leninist dictatorship. |
We've had 20 + years of this "But, China" whilst the capitalist West carries on regardless. | | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:34 - Jul 16 with 1081 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:30 - Jul 16 by XYZ |
We've had 20 + years of this "But, China" whilst the capitalist West carries on regardless. |
Being armed with a peashooter, I worry, but that's not strictly true is it?
The West has at least made a start on reducing the growth in pollution, while China still builds new coal stations.
I know this isn't a fair comparrison as the west is further along the development time-line and is rich enough to stomach green costs and regulations. But still, i don't think its fair to say the West carries on regardless. [Post edited 16 Jul 2021 12:10]
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:42 - Jul 16 with 1064 views | XYZ |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:34 - Jul 16 by giant_stow |
Being armed with a peashooter, I worry, but that's not strictly true is it?
The West has at least made a start on reducing the growth in pollution, while China still builds new coal stations.
I know this isn't a fair comparrison as the west is further along the development time-line and is rich enough to stomach green costs and regulations. But still, i don't think its fair to say the West carries on regardless. [Post edited 16 Jul 2021 12:10]
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What's the highest point in Norfolk above sea-level?
At least you'll be able to have a beach-side holiday in Cambridge; still blaming China for NCFC's relegation to the bottom of the North Sea. | | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:53 - Jul 16 with 1053 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:42 - Jul 16 by XYZ |
What's the highest point in Norfolk above sea-level?
At least you'll be able to have a beach-side holiday in Cambridge; still blaming China for NCFC's relegation to the bottom of the North Sea. |
You brute! I think it might be in Norwich, but I'm not sure.
I'm not solely blaming China in any way. Just pointing out that no one's hands are clean. Can;t be arsed to check the following, but I'd imagine that the West's historic emissions dwarf those of China even, but if we're chatitng trends and fixing them, perhaps some countries have a bigger change to make than others.
Edit: To correct myself: plenty of hands are clean, but they're in less developed countries - no relatively well off hands are clean! [Post edited 16 Jul 2021 12:02]
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:56 - Jul 16 with 1047 views | noggin |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:53 - Jul 16 by giant_stow |
You brute! I think it might be in Norwich, but I'm not sure.
I'm not solely blaming China in any way. Just pointing out that no one's hands are clean. Can;t be arsed to check the following, but I'd imagine that the West's historic emissions dwarf those of China even, but if we're chatitng trends and fixing them, perhaps some countries have a bigger change to make than others.
Edit: To correct myself: plenty of hands are clean, but they're in less developed countries - no relatively well off hands are clean! [Post edited 16 Jul 2021 12:02]
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Who will make all the crap we buy on Wish? | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:02 - Jul 16 with 1037 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:56 - Jul 16 by noggin |
Who will make all the crap we buy on Wish? |
The buyers and sellers of pieces of tat are part of the same guilty transaction, granted. For now China is an export led economy, but that will change the richer they get surely? I'm sure the growing numbers of Chinese middle classes will be doing their fair share of lame consumption.
I'm not sure why it seems controversial to say that all richer nations should share the blame, or that some countries have more to fix than others. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:06 - Jul 16 with 1026 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:19 - Jul 16 by chicoazul |
I broadly agree. It is also a very sinister Leninist dictatorship. |
I'd say it's something like an authoritarian market economy. Government is hands off at the low level, but intervenes with big companies and the stock market, largely for political purposes.
Re Ulla's point, what's happening in China is at least partially our problem because we buy so much of our stuff from there. The UK has outsourced more of its emissions (largely from manufacturing) than any other major country. Worth remembering this whenever you hear people crowing about how well the UK has done in reducing emissions. |  | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:08 - Jul 16 with 1025 views | jeera |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:34 - Jul 16 by giant_stow |
Being armed with a peashooter, I worry, but that's not strictly true is it?
The West has at least made a start on reducing the growth in pollution, while China still builds new coal stations.
I know this isn't a fair comparrison as the west is further along the development time-line and is rich enough to stomach green costs and regulations. But still, i don't think its fair to say the West carries on regardless. [Post edited 16 Jul 2021 12:10]
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Doesn't China produce the majority of all solar panels?
How those are produced mind you... |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:09 - Jul 16 with 1023 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:08 - Jul 16 by jeera |
Doesn't China produce the majority of all solar panels?
How those are produced mind you... |
I think you might be right there yes. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:13 - Jul 16 with 1017 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:06 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I'd say it's something like an authoritarian market economy. Government is hands off at the low level, but intervenes with big companies and the stock market, largely for political purposes.
Re Ulla's point, what's happening in China is at least partially our problem because we buy so much of our stuff from there. The UK has outsourced more of its emissions (largely from manufacturing) than any other major country. Worth remembering this whenever you hear people crowing about how well the UK has done in reducing emissions. |
Fair point on outsourcing emissions, but you're right to say that's not the whole story. Please don't get me wrong - I'm not crowing or cheerleading - just trying to add a bit nuance to the 'west is evil' points. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:22 - Jul 16 with 1004 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:13 - Jul 16 by giant_stow |
Fair point on outsourcing emissions, but you're right to say that's not the whole story. Please don't get me wrong - I'm not crowing or cheerleading - just trying to add a bit nuance to the 'west is evil' points. |
I don't think anyone has made 'west is evil' points — there was simply some exasperation with the usual 'but China' comments.
I do find it odd that you so often seem to end up defending what might now be termed the GB News angle. | | | |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:28 - Jul 16 with 997 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:22 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I don't think anyone has made 'west is evil' points — there was simply some exasperation with the usual 'but China' comments.
I do find it odd that you so often seem to end up defending what might now be termed the GB News angle. |
harsh.
I loath that station as much as anyone. However, i do think they have a right to see if there's a market for it. Thankfully, it looks like there isn't.
What makes trying to find a balance in a debate 'defending the GB News angle'?
Must we always be so partisan and one sided, or is it still ok to try and see both sides of a story? One side was being put earlier in the thread and although I probably shouldn't have lazily termed it 'the west is evil' just now, I make no apologies for trying to look at things in the round.
Surely we need more understanding of others' view points and respect even, if we're ever going to move forward out of this current culture war and that means the left bending a little, just like the right.
Yours, a labour voter. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:34 - Jul 16 with 984 views | Darth_Koont |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:22 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I don't think anyone has made 'west is evil' points — there was simply some exasperation with the usual 'but China' comments.
I do find it odd that you so often seem to end up defending what might now be termed the GB News angle. |
Ullaa is always a good source of raw, undiluted Telegraph views.
He’s a small c that wants to be a bigger c. |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:41 - Jul 16 with 971 views | DanTheMan |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:34 - Jul 16 by giant_stow |
Being armed with a peashooter, I worry, but that's not strictly true is it?
The West has at least made a start on reducing the growth in pollution, while China still builds new coal stations.
I know this isn't a fair comparrison as the west is further along the development time-line and is rich enough to stomach green costs and regulations. But still, i don't think its fair to say the West carries on regardless. [Post edited 16 Jul 2021 12:10]
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I mean, we have though, until it's got to the verge of being too late. It's not like we've not known.
Per capita, China was way lower than a lot of other countries (as of 2018). The reason they pump out a lot of emissions is because there is a lot of them. Obviously them building additional coal plants isn't at all good but they were still well below USA, Russia, Canada, Australia etc. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:42 - Jul 16 with 961 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:34 - Jul 16 by Darth_Koont |
Ullaa is always a good source of raw, undiluted Telegraph views.
He’s a small c that wants to be a bigger c. |
zzzz | |
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