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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 15:25 - Oct 6 by Digger77
2021. When natural immunity is a conspiracy theory.
Immunity by vaccination is still 'natural'.It's based around introducing an agent designed to provoke a response in your immune system. Your immune system isn't doing anything ins reponse to the active ingredient that it wouldn't to the disease it's preventing against.
Christ , I wish we could vaccinate against stupidity and willful ignorance.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 14:56 - Oct 6 by Lightworker
As with most things, it is never quite as black & white as people like to make out. For example I find it rather strange that the article doesn't mention the natural immunity that Robinson will now have acquired. With Robinson having had Covid twice ( or at least tested positive twice ) and assuming at least one of those infections was the real deal, he will very likely now have a strong level of natural immunity.
This article highlights a study out of Israel which suggests that prior Covid infection provides up to 13 time more protection than having two doses of Pfizer vaccine (without a previous infection).
So in actual fact Robinson may well be more protected and less of a risk to others than some of his double jabbed team mates.
For balance the study also suggests that vaccination on top of prior infection may offer even stronger protection still, however with the players also being regularly tested the position Robinson has taken is quite reasonable and not nearly as controversial as the media would like to make out. There really isn't much of a story here, or at least there shouldn't be.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 14:59 - Oct 6 by Lightworker
That is simply not true in this case, please see my other post in response to the OP.
[Post edited 6 Oct 2021 15:08]
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? by ElderGrizzly6 Oct 2021 15:52 There is something in the natural immunity line as the link to the study suggests. Summarised well here too:
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital
The important part is, it involves you getting Covid. Which of course carries a potentially deadly or incapacitating risk.
And natural immunity potentially only gives immunity against one variant, where the vaccine covers multiple variants.
And their final conclusion - "but vaccination remains vital"
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 15:52 - Oct 6 by BlueBadger
Immunity by vaccination is still 'natural'.It's based around introducing an agent designed to provoke a response in your immune system. Your immune system isn't doing anything ins reponse to the active ingredient that it wouldn't to the disease it's preventing against.
Christ , I wish we could vaccinate against stupidity and willful ignorance.
I don’t think that’s true, the vaccine is only introducing part of the virus concentrating on the spike protein so the the antibody response is not the same. Something to do with immunoglobulins I read although people more qualified than me will understand their relevance better. It’s certainly not clear cut enough make accusations of stupidity and wilful ignorance
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 14:56 - Oct 6 by Lightworker
As with most things, it is never quite as black & white as people like to make out. For example I find it rather strange that the article doesn't mention the natural immunity that Robinson will now have acquired. With Robinson having had Covid twice ( or at least tested positive twice ) and assuming at least one of those infections was the real deal, he will very likely now have a strong level of natural immunity.
This article highlights a study out of Israel which suggests that prior Covid infection provides up to 13 time more protection than having two doses of Pfizer vaccine (without a previous infection).
So in actual fact Robinson may well be more protected and less of a risk to others than some of his double jabbed team mates.
For balance the study also suggests that vaccination on top of prior infection may offer even stronger protection still, however with the players also being regularly tested the position Robinson has taken is quite reasonable and not nearly as controversial as the media would like to make out. There really isn't much of a story here, or at least there shouldn't be.
Also for balance, getting natural immunity to Covid requires you to roll the dice by catching Covid and hoping you don't have any serious side effects, which are considerably more likely than taking a vaccine.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 16:27 - Oct 6 by DanTheMan
Also for balance, getting natural immunity to Covid requires you to roll the dice by catching Covid and hoping you don't have any serious side effects, which are considerably more likely than taking a vaccine.
Absolutely. The comparison is only valid for someone such as Robinson who has recovered from Covid, not for those thinking they should get Covid instead
The important part is, it involves you getting Covid. Which of course carries a potentially deadly or incapacitating risk.
And natural immunity potentially only gives immunity against one variant, where the vaccine covers multiple variants.
And their final conclusion - "but vaccination remains vital"
Of course I am not advocating that people go out looking to get Covid instead of getting a vaccine, but for people that do have prior infection ( such as Callum Robinson ) it should not be discounted nor should they be discriminated against for making what is a reasonable choice based on the evidence.
I'm not sure your line about natural immunity only protecting against one variant is actually correct, in fact I have seen it said that it is in fact the other way around and we know that the vaccines are not offering as much protection against Delta as they did from Alpha.
From the article you posted...
"The research impresses Nussenzweig and other scientists who have reviewed a preprint of the results, posted yesterday on medRxiv. “It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” says Charlotte ThÃ¥lin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute who studies the immune responses to SARS-CoV-2".
I think the truth is that where Covid-19 is concerned we really don't have all the answers at present and the research is very much ongoing. I just get annoyed at this black/white viewpoint portrayed by the media ( and Government ) of - take a Covid vaccine = good person, don't take a covid vaccine = bad person. And this is coming from a vaccinated person I might add.
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 16:50 - Oct 6 with 1375 views
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 16:27 - Oct 6 by DanTheMan
Also for balance, getting natural immunity to Covid requires you to roll the dice by catching Covid and hoping you don't have any serious side effects, which are considerably more likely than taking a vaccine.
For a professional sportsman, the dice has millions of sides. As I understand it, this is basically their opinion.... and choice.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 16:09 - Oct 6 by BlueBadger
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? by ElderGrizzly6 Oct 2021 15:52 There is something in the natural immunity line as the link to the study suggests. Summarised well here too:
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital
The important part is, it involves you getting Covid. Which of course carries a potentially deadly or incapacitating risk.
And natural immunity potentially only gives immunity against one variant, where the vaccine covers multiple variants.
And their final conclusion - "but vaccination remains vital"
That actually does nothing to counter my original post, but thanks anyway.
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 16:56 - Oct 6 with 1355 views
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 16:19 - Oct 6 by Trequartista
I don’t think that’s true, the vaccine is only introducing part of the virus concentrating on the spike protein so the the antibody response is not the same. Something to do with immunoglobulins I read although people more qualified than me will understand their relevance better. It’s certainly not clear cut enough make accusations of stupidity and wilful ignorance
You are correct. I recently had an antibody test and it came up negative despite being double jabbed. They make it clear that the antibody test only detects antibodies from infections, not from vaccination. Made me a bit worried I'd had a placebo at first glance!
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 17:05 - Oct 6 with 1340 views
I was thinking about the virility thing so I did a search for Covid-19 vaccine and fertility on the interweb and all I get is data that the virus affects fertility more than the vaccine.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 17:05 - Oct 6 by Digger77
They think that natural immunity is better than a jab. Like it is for children according to the scientists.
Natural immunity may well be better than getting double jabbed, my point being that if they've not already caught it then catching Covid is going to be much riskier than getting jabbed.
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 17:35 - Oct 6 by DanTheMan
Natural immunity may well be better than getting double jabbed, my point being that if they've not already caught it then catching Covid is going to be much riskier than getting jabbed.
I assume that natural immunity wains like the vaccine immunity so to stay naturally immune you have to keep getting Covid-19 ( interesting Russian roulette approach!).
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 21:39 - Oct 6 with 1217 views
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 17:54 - Oct 6 by Eireannach_gorm
I assume that natural immunity wains like the vaccine immunity so to stay naturally immune you have to keep getting Covid-19 ( interesting Russian roulette approach!).
That is very unlikely to be the case. Of course we don't know for sure how long immunity to Covid will last with it being novel, but evidence is emerging that for most people the immunity will be long term. People infected with the Sars 2003 virus have been shown to still have robust immunity 17 years after infection
The human body is an amazing piece of kit, although antibodies disappear from the blood after a few months the body still remembers the infection and stores information in the bone marrow waiting for the next time it encounters the virus at which point it releases more antibodies. If you think about it this makes sense, we can have natural lifelong immunity to Measles, Chicken pox and numerous other childhood diseases but we don't continually carry high levels of antibodies in our blood indefinitely .
This piece is worth reading for more info and is well researched with supporting links.
Also this video is worth a watch if you are interested in learning more. The conclusion of Dr John Campbell is that natural immunity is slightly superior to vaccine induced. Interestingly it also cites evidence that getting vaccinated soon after infection means you are 56% more likely to experience a severe side effect that requires hospital care. Going back to your OP it seems that Robinson might not be quite as daft as some people are making out.
[Post edited 6 Oct 2021 21:40]
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 22:02 - Oct 6 with 1200 views
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 13:30 - Oct 6 by MeenoITFC
Exactly this.
One thing I would state is it seems that people who are vaccinated feel threatened by people that haven't? Yet its proven you pass the virus on with or without the vaccine.
Morale of the story is that it protects yourself that's it. If someone does not want the vaccine that is their personal choice.
Well said. I get fed up with people having a pop at people because they have or have not had the jab. As stated yes it can reduce but you can still catch and spread covid with both jabs. And if you have had both jabs you dont need to do a test to enter any where, so could be carrying and spreading with out knowing!
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 06:36 - Oct 7 with 1144 views
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 13:30 - Oct 6 by MeenoITFC
Exactly this.
One thing I would state is it seems that people who are vaccinated feel threatened by people that haven't? Yet its proven you pass the virus on with or without the vaccine.
Morale of the story is that it protects yourself that's it. If someone does not want the vaccine that is their personal choice.
This is the type of nonsense that causes the problem. You are far less likely to catch it in an environment where everyone is vaccinated. Thus by getting it you protect others. How it protects you personally can vary - you should be driven by the social responsibility to protect others.
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 15:09 - Oct 7 with 1065 views
The risks of them getting seriously ill from covid are very slim. Obviously it does happen - Celina for example. The chances of them having a severe reaction to the vaccine and possibly dying from it are also very very slim but are still real. In fact as people who exercise regularly and being men (just talking about the mens teams here) they are at higher risks of developing heart problems post vaccine.
Most of them have also already had Covid. Having the vaccine doesn't stop them catching or spreading covid just of ending up in a life threatening situation. All perhaps reasons they might not have the vaccine.
I'm all for people having the vaccine and have had two doses myself due to being vulnerable to it but it definitely is a personal choice.
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What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 11:53 - Oct 8 with 1004 views
What is it with footballers and the Covid-19 vaccine? on 17:54 - Oct 6 by Eireannach_gorm
I assume that natural immunity wains like the vaccine immunity so to stay naturally immune you have to keep getting Covid-19 ( interesting Russian roulette approach!).
Thank you wellhungphil for your contribution to this thread. I acknowledge your very real concerns.
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