| Update on rail dispute 08:16 - Jun 1 with 977 views | Beattie78 |
RMT press release:
RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "Since the ballot results on 24th May, discussions have been taking place at industry-wide level under the auspices of the Rail Industry Recovery Group (RIRG) to create a framework and structure for negotiations on all issues in the dispute.
"RMT has today agreed to continue these discussions in order to create a framework for negotiations on all aspects of the dispute.
"The matter will be considered again by the RMT NEC on Tuesday 7th June, when we will consider how to develop our campaign including the issue of setting dates for phases of industrial action.
"Our participation in the proposed discussions does not mean RMT has reached agreement with any of the train operating companies, Network Rail or with the Government’s current proposals.
"The union has the same position as it always has - to seek job security with a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies; that any changes to structures, working practices, or conditions have to be agreed with our union, not imposed; and that our members deserve a negotiated pay increase that addresses the rising cost of living.
"RMT will continue to make active preparations for a sustained campaign of industrial action while discussions continue." |  |
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| Update on rail dispute on 09:31 - Jun 1 with 847 views | meekreech |
What are they talking about? No negotiations with the companies have taken place so setting the threat of industrial action beforehand is not being prepared to negotiate in a sensible manner. The union has already made clear that unless the companies give way to all of the union demands they will be taking industrial action! Time for unions to start to realise that technology has become more important than humans and will be replacing more jobs in the future. |  |
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| Update on rail dispute on 09:32 - Jun 1 with 839 views | DanTheMan |
| Update on rail dispute on 09:31 - Jun 1 by meekreech |
What are they talking about? No negotiations with the companies have taken place so setting the threat of industrial action beforehand is not being prepared to negotiate in a sensible manner. The union has already made clear that unless the companies give way to all of the union demands they will be taking industrial action! Time for unions to start to realise that technology has become more important than humans and will be replacing more jobs in the future. |
"Time for unions to start to realise that technology has become more important than humans and will be replacing more jobs in the future."
I'd argue that's a very good reason for unions to exist. Technology is not more important than human beings, and that is coming from someone who writes software as a job. |  |
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| Update on rail dispute on 09:40 - Jun 1 with 825 views | MattinLondon |
| Update on rail dispute on 09:31 - Jun 1 by meekreech |
What are they talking about? No negotiations with the companies have taken place so setting the threat of industrial action beforehand is not being prepared to negotiate in a sensible manner. The union has already made clear that unless the companies give way to all of the union demands they will be taking industrial action! Time for unions to start to realise that technology has become more important than humans and will be replacing more jobs in the future. |
I think that union realised that technology will replace its members jobs quite some time ago. One of the reasons why they try to get the best possible deal for them. |  | | |
| Update on rail dispute on 10:26 - Jun 1 with 758 views | monytowbray |
| Update on rail dispute on 09:32 - Jun 1 by DanTheMan |
"Time for unions to start to realise that technology has become more important than humans and will be replacing more jobs in the future."
I'd argue that's a very good reason for unions to exist. Technology is not more important than human beings, and that is coming from someone who writes software as a job. |
Also, we can’t just replace everyone with tech for corps to save money without that saved cash filtering down through tax (corps don’t enough) to fund UBI or salaries for the staff they do keep.
Then again, I am starting to wonder if the poster you replied to is some kind of union buster troll farm bot or bad faith actor. A lot of it going about right now unsurprisingly. Both Amazon and Google have been caught running psyops or coercive schemes internally to steer people away from collective action.
Either way, these posts will bite the poster in the arse. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 10:29]
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| Update on rail dispute on 10:52 - Jun 1 with 721 views | WD19 |
| Update on rail dispute on 09:40 - Jun 1 by MattinLondon |
I think that union realised that technology will replace its members jobs quite some time ago. One of the reasons why they try to get the best possible deal for them. |
Presumably the main tranche of industrial action is being pencilled in for late November/Early December!? |  | | |
| Update on rail dispute on 11:05 - Jun 1 with 693 views | MattinLondon |
| Update on rail dispute on 10:52 - Jun 1 by WD19 |
Presumably the main tranche of industrial action is being pencilled in for late November/Early December!? |
You’re probably right - around the buildup to Christmas.
I think, in the long term, technology will replace a lot of drivers and their union will lose a lot of it’s established influence. Not sure when that’ll be, possibly in twenty years time. | | | |
| Update on rail dispute on 11:18 - Jun 1 with 671 views | monytowbray |
| Update on rail dispute on 11:05 - Jun 1 by MattinLondon |
You’re probably right - around the buildup to Christmas.
I think, in the long term, technology will replace a lot of drivers and their union will lose a lot of it’s established influence. Not sure when that’ll be, possibly in twenty years time. |
Unions will make way for a larger collective action for wealth equality and human enjoyment.
As I said earlier, we can’t just keep letting the people who develop the tech and/or the corps adopting it hoard the money from saved labour. If we don’t need humans to do things anymore humans still need a purpose, be it enjoyment through less work and UBI policies or having money to spend to prop up the businesses using the tech.
Anyone who whinges about fat cat union salaries is almost always too thick to look the other way at the bosses they fight or are the boss worried for their already bloated income. C**ts. | |
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| Update on rail dispute on 11:36 - Jun 1 with 645 views | hatch |
The initial talks yesterday went better than expected then.
I know the mechanics of tax revenue & spend don't work this clear cut but one view I consider is:
- The railway operating costs are now funded from taxpayer money + ticket fares (broadly speaking)
- The railway racked up a £16bn debt during covid - almost entirely taxpayers money
- There are emergency service workers who are heavily underpaid for the stress and difficulty of their work that are unable to strike for a number of reasons
- The railway, however, is structured well to strike - high impact and nobody dies as a result (directly, although you could argue indirectly they do)
- The railway union strength therefore forces the government to allocate a greater % of treasury spend on the railway, rather than the emergency services who aren't able to strike
So whilst I know it doesn't all work quite as simplistically as that, I can't help but think that railway staff, who already have some of the best Ts & Cs, are fighting for a larger chunk of the treasury pie which ultimately reduces the hope for the already underfunded police, fire service & NHS.
People also wonder why train tickets are so astronomically high, which in turn limits mobility for lower paid or unemployed citizens. Well sadly the railway costs a helluva lot to operate.... |  | | |
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| Update on rail dispute on 11:53 - Jun 1 with 616 views | monytowbray |
| Update on rail dispute on 11:36 - Jun 1 by hatch |
The initial talks yesterday went better than expected then.
I know the mechanics of tax revenue & spend don't work this clear cut but one view I consider is:
- The railway operating costs are now funded from taxpayer money + ticket fares (broadly speaking)
- The railway racked up a £16bn debt during covid - almost entirely taxpayers money
- There are emergency service workers who are heavily underpaid for the stress and difficulty of their work that are unable to strike for a number of reasons
- The railway, however, is structured well to strike - high impact and nobody dies as a result (directly, although you could argue indirectly they do)
- The railway union strength therefore forces the government to allocate a greater % of treasury spend on the railway, rather than the emergency services who aren't able to strike
So whilst I know it doesn't all work quite as simplistically as that, I can't help but think that railway staff, who already have some of the best Ts & Cs, are fighting for a larger chunk of the treasury pie which ultimately reduces the hope for the already underfunded police, fire service & NHS.
People also wonder why train tickets are so astronomically high, which in turn limits mobility for lower paid or unemployed citizens. Well sadly the railway costs a helluva lot to operate.... |
The last para.
The rail networks charge double what it costs to transport per person at least when I last looked at data a few years back. That money is extracted by private companies (many European, LOL at the fact Brexit means Brexit) who get 3 times the public investment it got when publicly owned.
These comments do little to address the actual problem (privatisation fails the public long term at the very least). Corporations are largely business-loophole legal crime syndicates at this point.
I should add many of the businesses running privatised services are also using large scale tax dodge systems which strangle the public purse and our politicians are abusing that money. It is a much larger and systematic issue in play the rail companies use to their advantage and then limit the debate by claiming it’s just business in line with that system they prop up.
If we all stopped paying the extortion of fares tomorrow that system would break. Yet god forbid anyone does that. The only thing that makes the trains expensive is shareholder demands and growth at all costs. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 11:56]
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| Update on rail dispute on 12:01 - Jun 1 with 597 views | hatch |
| Update on rail dispute on 11:53 - Jun 1 by monytowbray |
The last para.
The rail networks charge double what it costs to transport per person at least when I last looked at data a few years back. That money is extracted by private companies (many European, LOL at the fact Brexit means Brexit) who get 3 times the public investment it got when publicly owned.
These comments do little to address the actual problem (privatisation fails the public long term at the very least). Corporations are largely business-loophole legal crime syndicates at this point.
I should add many of the businesses running privatised services are also using large scale tax dodge systems which strangle the public purse and our politicians are abusing that money. It is a much larger and systematic issue in play the rail companies use to their advantage and then limit the debate by claiming it’s just business in line with that system they prop up.
If we all stopped paying the extortion of fares tomorrow that system would break. Yet god forbid anyone does that. The only thing that makes the trains expensive is shareholder demands and growth at all costs. [Post edited 1 Jun 2022 11:56]
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I'm not sure if you'll be familiar with the recent railway reform which has led to arguably a quasi-public run service.
The government effectively now covers the costs (and takes all revenue) of the railway and pays a small 'profit' to the private companies as an incentive. To create a larger profit for itself, the private companies, such as Abellio for Anglia, have to earn a 'performance based fee'. They have to achieve certain metrics of punctuality performance, customer experience, response times etc in order to earn anymore profit.
But ultimately those profit margins are minor now and fully controlled by government therefore it's very hard for any non-British companies to take huge sums out of the system (although I appreciate the likes of Abellio, MTR & Trenitialia are all foreign). And it also limits opportunity for any crime syndicates you're thinking of! | | | |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:07 - Jun 1 with 590 views | monytowbray |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:01 - Jun 1 by hatch |
I'm not sure if you'll be familiar with the recent railway reform which has led to arguably a quasi-public run service.
The government effectively now covers the costs (and takes all revenue) of the railway and pays a small 'profit' to the private companies as an incentive. To create a larger profit for itself, the private companies, such as Abellio for Anglia, have to earn a 'performance based fee'. They have to achieve certain metrics of punctuality performance, customer experience, response times etc in order to earn anymore profit.
But ultimately those profit margins are minor now and fully controlled by government therefore it's very hard for any non-British companies to take huge sums out of the system (although I appreciate the likes of Abellio, MTR & Trenitialia are all foreign). And it also limits opportunity for any crime syndicates you're thinking of! |
The quasi public model as you put it is a temp measure until COVID hit goes away, then all those private companies will be back.
Those private companies have extracted so much profit from it and once it hit a block they wanted the gov to step in. If I have a rough few months in my job I have to dip in my savings as most of us do.
The problem is well beyond just the rail companies/industry and is a symptom of free market economics bringing around disaster capitalism. | |
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| Update on rail dispute on 12:09 - Jun 1 with 581 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:07 - Jun 1 by monytowbray |
The quasi public model as you put it is a temp measure until COVID hit goes away, then all those private companies will be back.
Those private companies have extracted so much profit from it and once it hit a block they wanted the gov to step in. If I have a rough few months in my job I have to dip in my savings as most of us do.
The problem is well beyond just the rail companies/industry and is a symptom of free market economics bringing around disaster capitalism. |
Privatise the profits, nationalise the losses. What’s not to like… | | | |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:09 - Jun 1 with 580 views | chicoazul |
| Update on rail dispute on 09:31 - Jun 1 by meekreech |
What are they talking about? No negotiations with the companies have taken place so setting the threat of industrial action beforehand is not being prepared to negotiate in a sensible manner. The union has already made clear that unless the companies give way to all of the union demands they will be taking industrial action! Time for unions to start to realise that technology has become more important than humans and will be replacing more jobs in the future. |
Spoken like a true dystopian. How depressing. |  |
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| Update on rail dispute on 12:13 - Jun 1 with 573 views | hatch |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:07 - Jun 1 by monytowbray |
The quasi public model as you put it is a temp measure until COVID hit goes away, then all those private companies will be back.
Those private companies have extracted so much profit from it and once it hit a block they wanted the gov to step in. If I have a rough few months in my job I have to dip in my savings as most of us do.
The problem is well beyond just the rail companies/industry and is a symptom of free market economics bringing around disaster capitalism. |
It's very much a permanent change with a future of the 'Great British Railways' organisation which on the back of the Williams-Shapps report will re-design how the railway operates and won't be overly dissimilar to how things look now.
It's this reform which moves the structure away from the private led franchise model which is one of the reasons RMT have a feeling of insecurity and have therefore balloted members. | | | |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:24 - Jun 1 with 539 views | monytowbray |
| Update on rail dispute on 12:13 - Jun 1 by hatch |
It's very much a permanent change with a future of the 'Great British Railways' organisation which on the back of the Williams-Shapps report will re-design how the railway operates and won't be overly dissimilar to how things look now.
It's this reform which moves the structure away from the private led franchise model which is one of the reasons RMT have a feeling of insecurity and have therefore balloted members. |
You have more hope than me! Time will tell, but I fear lobbyists in Tufton St will make sure anything that actually works for the majority will be watered down as much as they can. | |
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