| Yeah but Corbyn 20:35 - Oct 19 with 3823 views | noggin |
 Mugs. |  |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:26 - Oct 20 with 683 views | chicoazul |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:22 - Oct 20 by itfcjoe |
They rejected it because the message and the messenger was viewed to not be credible.
Like a heavyweight boxing match when you are the contender, Labour can't edge a victory in in a tight fight on points, they either go to the Champ's backyard and knock him out, or they lose on points.
Whether people agree that that is right or wrong is neither here nor there, it doesn't matter it is the case.
Corbyn's policies as we got closer and closer to 2019 election became less and less credible and more and more expensive, and he never recovered from his ludicrous reaction to the Salisbury poisonings - for all said and done, where would Ukraine be if JC had won the election? |
Your last sentence; the Maximum Leader was in no way a friend to Russia. People seem to think Russia is Marxist Leninist or even vaguely socialist. It isn’t. |  |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:27 - Oct 20 with 677 views | itfcjoe |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:26 - Oct 20 by chicoazul |
Your last sentence; the Maximum Leader was in no way a friend to Russia. People seem to think Russia is Marxist Leninist or even vaguely socialist. It isn’t. |
Whilst he may not have been a friend, or Pro-Putin, him and his supporters were very much in the 'anti-anti-Putin' camp - and can't help but side with someone who goes against the West even if they are the biggest imperialist going |  |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:47 - Oct 20 with 626 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:42 - Oct 20 by XYZ |
Morning, Foxy. |
Morning Babez x |  |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:49 - Oct 20 with 621 views | XYZ |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 09:52 - Oct 20 by Darth_Koont |
I certainly agree on the whole.
But the following characterisation barely does justice to what happened in 2015-2019:
“It was Corbyn's vulnerabilities which gave certain sections of the media the seeds from which to grow the exaggerations. He then lacked the "front" to laugh them off in the way Johnson did. Plus people would have given him less leeway had he tried.”
Of course, you expect the right-wing media to go overboard re: anything or anyone remotely progressive. But it was the stuff coming from within the party itself, whether it was Labour HQ or the PLP constantly looking to sabotage. And from the BBC and the Guardian who were among the very worst and most consistently negative media coverage without any serious attempt at balance or objective truth. The now discredited Panorama “investigation” was a case in point.
It’s provably a democratic and journalistic scandal. And very few people seem to make the connection that it’s entirely enabled Johnson/Truss to slide even further right. And Starmer to slide to centre-right while trashing all his leadership pledges. In this desperate, dirty fight against what was basically social democracy, we’ve now got the worst set of options at the worst time. Namely, right-wingers trying to solve the awful problems caused by their own right-wing and status quo-preserving beliefs. I truly believe they don’t have a clue how to make things better – even if they had the will or it was in their own self-interest. |
DK, not sure whether you've seen this article ...
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/10/18/keir-starmer-squeeze-of-the-left-is-a-worryin |  | | |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:55 - Oct 20 with 602 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:22 - Oct 20 by itfcjoe |
They rejected it because the message and the messenger was viewed to not be credible.
Like a heavyweight boxing match when you are the contender, Labour can't edge a victory in in a tight fight on points, they either go to the Champ's backyard and knock him out, or they lose on points.
Whether people agree that that is right or wrong is neither here nor there, it doesn't matter it is the case.
Corbyn's policies as we got closer and closer to 2019 election became less and less credible and more and more expensive, and he never recovered from his ludicrous reaction to the Salisbury poisonings - for all said and done, where would Ukraine be if JC had won the election? |
I think that use of the word “credible” is the key.
Of course, the policies and costs were objectively credible. We should be wary of anyone who says otherwise. These are people who seemingly think adding an extra trillion on our national debt over the past decade hasn’t been an enormous waste of money that has ultimately only helped us kick our underlying socio-economic problems down the road until we’ve now run out of road. |  |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:02 - Oct 20 with 579 views | itfcjoe |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 10:55 - Oct 20 by Darth_Koont |
I think that use of the word “credible” is the key.
Of course, the policies and costs were objectively credible. We should be wary of anyone who says otherwise. These are people who seemingly think adding an extra trillion on our national debt over the past decade hasn’t been an enormous waste of money that has ultimately only helped us kick our underlying socio-economic problems down the road until we’ve now run out of road. |
Anything was always 'credible' when you see how the economy is actually run - and running up a debt is always going to be better for the people under a left Govt opposed to a right one because the money adding to the debt would have gone into public services rather than rich peoples pockets.
But the balance in 2017 was a lot more credible as a message, but by 2019 there were new announcements coming every day that just seemed to be being drawn up on a fag packet - the WASPI one was when felt they'd totally lost the plot as McDonnell just off the cuff seemed to announce a huge payout to masses of people and that message didn't even reverberate with them. My Mum is in that group and a staunch Tory, even when saying you are literally going to be given thousands of pounds and be able to start taking state pension now it was just seen as mental | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:09 - Oct 20 with 560 views | Darth_Koont |
No, I hadn’t seen it. Cheers for that.
I don’t think it’s any secret that Starmer and the Labour right are particularly anti-democratic and authoritarian. The evidence is everywhere despite the general silence of our media. Nor is the strong suspicion they would govern in the same way – promoting their own power, influence and money interests over the wider needs of the country.
But always good to get that confirmed by those who’ve seen it up close and within the leader’s office. | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:21 - Oct 20 with 539 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:02 - Oct 20 by itfcjoe |
Anything was always 'credible' when you see how the economy is actually run - and running up a debt is always going to be better for the people under a left Govt opposed to a right one because the money adding to the debt would have gone into public services rather than rich peoples pockets.
But the balance in 2017 was a lot more credible as a message, but by 2019 there were new announcements coming every day that just seemed to be being drawn up on a fag packet - the WASPI one was when felt they'd totally lost the plot as McDonnell just off the cuff seemed to announce a huge payout to masses of people and that message didn't even reverberate with them. My Mum is in that group and a staunch Tory, even when saying you are literally going to be given thousands of pounds and be able to start taking state pension now it was just seen as mental |
It was outside the manifesto spending because it was a one-off to redress a historic injustice and previous responsibility.
Up to 58 billion over 5 years was nothing though. We’ve seen 10 to 20 times that spunked on just standing still and putting money in rich pockets.
Maybe if politics was more about what government should be doing for people then important issues like this won’t get minimised as “fag packet” stuff by a largely clueless and unconcerned media and the people who swallow anything they read or watch from them. | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:21 - Oct 20 with 537 views | XYZ |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:09 - Oct 20 by Darth_Koont |
No, I hadn’t seen it. Cheers for that.
I don’t think it’s any secret that Starmer and the Labour right are particularly anti-democratic and authoritarian. The evidence is everywhere despite the general silence of our media. Nor is the strong suspicion they would govern in the same way – promoting their own power, influence and money interests over the wider needs of the country.
But always good to get that confirmed by those who’ve seen it up close and within the leader’s office. |
My (more hopeful) interpretation is that they feel a need to control everything to avoid having something (e.g. a candidate) that the right-wing media can jump on.
I fear that your interpretation looks more likely to be correct. | | | |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:25 - Oct 20 with 527 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:21 - Oct 20 by XYZ |
My (more hopeful) interpretation is that they feel a need to control everything to avoid having something (e.g. a candidate) that the right-wing media can jump on.
I fear that your interpretation looks more likely to be correct. |
Yep. I don’t buy it. Unfortunately, these are right-wingers who were doing the right-wing media’s job for them for years. | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:59 - Oct 20 with 490 views | itfcjoe |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:21 - Oct 20 by Darth_Koont |
It was outside the manifesto spending because it was a one-off to redress a historic injustice and previous responsibility.
Up to 58 billion over 5 years was nothing though. We’ve seen 10 to 20 times that spunked on just standing still and putting money in rich pockets.
Maybe if politics was more about what government should be doing for people then important issues like this won’t get minimised as “fag packet” stuff by a largely clueless and unconcerned media and the people who swallow anything they read or watch from them. |
But a £58bn commitment over 5 years is a lot of money, and similar to energy bail out, it has /had just become lost in the wash.
A £58bn policy to directly correct an injustice and give directly to people (whoa re about to go to the ballot box) should be shouted from the roof tops and not just slipped out | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 12:36 - Oct 20 with 439 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 11:59 - Oct 20 by itfcjoe |
But a £58bn commitment over 5 years is a lot of money, and similar to energy bail out, it has /had just become lost in the wash.
A £58bn policy to directly correct an injustice and give directly to people (whoa re about to go to the ballot box) should be shouted from the roof tops and not just slipped out |
I don’t think it was just slipped out. It was a big statement in an election campaign. | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 13:12 - Oct 20 with 404 views | itfcjoe |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 12:36 - Oct 20 by Darth_Koont |
I don’t think it was just slipped out. It was a big statement in an election campaign. |
It wasn't in their fully costed manifesto, was a £58bn commitment made after that, as a big statement it should have been in there and the IFS reacted to it badly | |
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| Yeah but Corbyn on 13:16 - Oct 20 with 392 views | Darth_Koont |
| Yeah but Corbyn on 13:12 - Oct 20 by itfcjoe |
It wasn't in their fully costed manifesto, was a £58bn commitment made after that, as a big statement it should have been in there and the IFS reacted to it badly |
But it wasn’t in the manifesto because it wasn’t part of the budgeted spending.
Pretending it should have been is a wilful distortion. Certainly by the media. | |
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