| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall 09:42 - Apr 22 with 2684 views | Guthrum |
points to the end of politicians feeling that just being the biggest sh1thead in the room is an adequate way to conduct government of the country.
Macho strength posturing (not limited to men) is no substitute for rationality and competence. Even if it is apparently worshipped by the constituency rank-and-file of certain parties. |  |
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 14:51 - Apr 22 with 642 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 14:41 - Apr 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Bullying is wrong. Full stop.
But it is rather amusing to remember the vocal remainers on here who defended John Bercow when he was accused of the same, because he was frustrating Brexit. |
Like this one here where a bunch of “vocal remainers” were defending him?
Jon Bercow by positivity 8 Mar 2022 18:11if williamson or lebedev managed to get one, he should have no trouble.
Oh no sorry, we were actually saying there’s no place for a bully. It’s so easy to get it wrong  |  |
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 15:02 - Apr 22 with 616 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 14:51 - Apr 22 by Swansea_Blue |
Like this one here where a bunch of “vocal remainers” were defending him?
Jon Bercow by positivity 8 Mar 2022 18:11if williamson or lebedev managed to get one, he should have no trouble.
Oh no sorry, we were actually saying there’s no place for a bully. It’s so easy to get it wrong |
The game's abou to kick off so I won't be looking for it now, but at the height of the bullying allegations there was a thread by somebody wanting Bercow to head a national government, and when i pointed out the bullying the usual suspects brushed it aside.
COYB |  |
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 20:37 - Apr 22 with 559 views | factual_blue |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 10:39 - Apr 22 by Churchman |
Agreed. They’re right behind the little man whose only achievement in seven years was to keep breathing.
From the Independent Jacob Rees-Mogg said:
“These are high pressure roles and people working for the deputy prime minister must realise they’re not in the teddy bear’s picnic.
“This is a tough and robust working environment, I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that it is going to be anything other than that when you’re running the country and decisions have to be made very rapidly and high standards are expected‘
So as far as he’s concerned a ‘tough and robust working environment’ means you can bully and abuse, shout at and ridicule because that gets the job done. Wrong mr stick insect. I don’t care if you went to Eton or the Dog & Duck, you treat people as you expect to be treated. Properly. It gets things done far quicker and more efficiently, especially in a ‘tough working environment’.
Yes, it is a high pressured environment. I’ve seen it first hand and worked in it. I know people who’ve worked directly for the PM downwards too. They were and are curiously loyal to ministers, even to odious fish-eye Osborne. PMs and ministers from days gone by recognised that relationship and valued it. Not now.
The interesting thing is that JRM mentions ‘high standards’, yet he clearly doesn’t believe in any standards of behaviour as long as he and his rabble are on the delivering end.
But then of course nothing is the Government’s fault. The crashing of the economy, Brexit catastrophe, Covid deaths, fraud and money blown shambles, Hancock caught grappling with his new/old gf in work. The Barnard Castle wart Cummings driving 100s miles during lockdown to test his eyesight. Food shortages - same everywhere even though the rest of Europe was having to prop up the shelves groaning with produce. Inflation: greedy people wanting a living wage when all the evidence points at govt mismanagement/ Brexit /supply problems. No energy storage: Russia’s fault. Austerity: had to be done. What a bit like Blackadder’s Captain Rum believing he didn’t need a crew when every other captain said you did? No, it was a political assault that had nothing to do with economics.
And so it goes on. As this country has fallen apart, not one aspect is down to them. Blameless. Squeaky clean. Martyr Johnson brought down by people who didn’t understand. So he wasn’t a grasping, stupid, lazy, odious oaf then Their solution is always blame and in the CS they have the perfect target because they loathe the public sector and they know it can’t fight back.
I hate Rees-Mogg and the rest of his crowd. They disgust me. [Post edited 22 Apr 2023 10:42]
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However, every single minister that I know of who treated their Civil Servants like something nasty on their shoe has come unstuck. Not just raaab, but patel, currie to name but three.
Those merely incompetent are sacked, often because of feedback from senior officials. I know for a fact that both Blair and Brown (and I suspect several other PMs) sought feedback about Ministers, particularly the more junior ones, from officials. |  |
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 06:47 - Apr 23 with 457 views | Churchman |
Oh look who’s just crawled out from under a rock?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65363845
This man on his first day at CO said to the assembled staff ‘I look around me and I see a lot of dead wood. It’s my job to get rid of it’. What a charmer.
In his latest dribblings (see attached) I extract:
‘He said ministers have limited authority to put in place officials of their choice despite relying on them and being accountable for what they do. He suggested that ministers could be given more say about appointments while preserving impartiality.’
So a politician appoints and the appointee remains impartial. Yeah, right. I can see several flaws in this, Lord Maude, but since listening isn’t in your skill set there would be no point in telling you, especially while he was eating dinner in that especially fine HoL dining room. People like this lizard are precisely the reason why I’d get rid of the HoL in a heartbeat.
As for the Raabmeister he’s now being treated as a victim. Bit like a murderer stabbing somebody and demanding payment from the victim to clean the blood off his shirt.
Nobody asked the useless tool to behave the way he did. I’ve read the report and could hazard a guess at what’s gone on. It’s what’s not been said/falls outside the ToR/restrictions because of confidentiality that for me is really damning. |  | | |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 08:54 - Apr 23 with 409 views | DJR |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 12:40 - Apr 22 by chicoazul |
Looking forwards to TWTDs reaction when I dunno, Lisa Nandy upsets someone menopausal at the home office in 3 years time to the point of tears, I’m sure the reaction will be exactly the same. [Post edited 22 Apr 2023 12:40]
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I am sure Labour will bring in a proper complaints' procedure for Civil Servants, in the same way that such a system has been created for those working in Parliament, following incidents involving Bercow and others.
There is no way the Tories will do the same because they clearly intend to spend the next two years attacking the Civil Service, and are happy with the current system.
That system enabled Johnson to suppress a report into Patel's bullying for five months and then ignore its finding that she had broken the Ministerial Code. And it enabled Raab to see the Tolley report and put out his side of the story before the public had a chances to see the report.
The irony of their current bleatings about the Civil Service is that the their great heroine, Mrs Thatcher, the most radical Prime Minister since Attlee, managed to achieve all that she wanted with the support of the Civil Service, and she would have faced at least initially a Civil Service used to thirty years of social democracy.
But then again, she and her Cabinet were competent and decent people who recognised the value of the Civil Service. Can you ever, for example, imagine Willie Whitelaw doing a Raab or Patel?
Fortunately, there are still some decent ministers who recognise and give praise to the Civil Service when they stand down, but such people are few and far between in today's Tory party. Indeed, the way the current Tory party reacts to things, you would think they had not been in power these last 13 years. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 10:45]
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 08:59 - Apr 23 with 404 views | DJR |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 06:47 - Apr 23 by Churchman |
Oh look who’s just crawled out from under a rock?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65363845
This man on his first day at CO said to the assembled staff ‘I look around me and I see a lot of dead wood. It’s my job to get rid of it’. What a charmer.
In his latest dribblings (see attached) I extract:
‘He said ministers have limited authority to put in place officials of their choice despite relying on them and being accountable for what they do. He suggested that ministers could be given more say about appointments while preserving impartiality.’
So a politician appoints and the appointee remains impartial. Yeah, right. I can see several flaws in this, Lord Maude, but since listening isn’t in your skill set there would be no point in telling you, especially while he was eating dinner in that especially fine HoL dining room. People like this lizard are precisely the reason why I’d get rid of the HoL in a heartbeat.
As for the Raabmeister he’s now being treated as a victim. Bit like a murderer stabbing somebody and demanding payment from the victim to clean the blood off his shirt.
Nobody asked the useless tool to behave the way he did. I’ve read the report and could hazard a guess at what’s gone on. It’s what’s not been said/falls outside the ToR/restrictions because of confidentiality that for me is really damning. |
You got there before me on Maude! | | | |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 10:38 - Apr 23 with 390 views | DJR |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 06:47 - Apr 23 by Churchman |
Oh look who’s just crawled out from under a rock?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65363845
This man on his first day at CO said to the assembled staff ‘I look around me and I see a lot of dead wood. It’s my job to get rid of it’. What a charmer.
In his latest dribblings (see attached) I extract:
‘He said ministers have limited authority to put in place officials of their choice despite relying on them and being accountable for what they do. He suggested that ministers could be given more say about appointments while preserving impartiality.’
So a politician appoints and the appointee remains impartial. Yeah, right. I can see several flaws in this, Lord Maude, but since listening isn’t in your skill set there would be no point in telling you, especially while he was eating dinner in that especially fine HoL dining room. People like this lizard are precisely the reason why I’d get rid of the HoL in a heartbeat.
As for the Raabmeister he’s now being treated as a victim. Bit like a murderer stabbing somebody and demanding payment from the victim to clean the blood off his shirt.
Nobody asked the useless tool to behave the way he did. I’ve read the report and could hazard a guess at what’s gone on. It’s what’s not been said/falls outside the ToR/restrictions because of confidentiality that for me is really damning. |
Maude banged on a lot about Government efficiency when a minister in the Cabinet Office but I was never convinced his supposed savings worked out in the long term: public health advertising being one example. And clearly none of his reforms on efficiency stood the test of time when it came to the billions wasted during the pandemic. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 11:39]
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 12:07 - Apr 23 with 363 views | DJR |
Looking at the matter in the round, what we have seen since Johnson is a return to the social conservatism of earlier Tory governments, where rights of all sorts (including worker's rights) were disregarded or worse.
Social conservatism has been a particular feature of the right since Thatcher and Reagan (clause 28, Duncan-Smith whipping his MPs to oppose same sex adoption etc), but in the UK there was a move to socially progressives policies under both Cameron and May, albeit not on the immigration front, with a view to countering what May called the nasty party image.
The irony is that both Sunak and Johnson are probably at heart social progressives (as is probably Trump who was at one time a Democrat), but each have gone down the anti-woke or non-progressive route for political gain.
Peter Tatchell outlines well the position in the 1980s in relation to LGBT+ rights which isn't really different to the attacks the right and Government are making on groups they regard as woke or snowflakes (trans people, asylum seekers, civil servants). Indeed, in the current climate, could one imagine legislation for civil partnerships or gay marriage, if that wasn't already the law?
https://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/1980s-a-decade-of-state-sanctioned-homop
The world has, however, changed, as evidenced by polls that indicate the percentage of people who thought same-sex partnerships were "not wrong at all" has almost quadrupled from 17% when the survey started in 1983, to 64% in 2016.
As a result, it is not clear that the culture wars' route is an approach that will work (and certainly not in the long term as older people die) but they are resting all their hopes on it, and seem to be prepared to do grave damage to the country and its institutions in the process. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 18:04]
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| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 12:11 - Apr 23 with 344 views | Churchman |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 10:38 - Apr 23 by DJR |
Maude banged on a lot about Government efficiency when a minister in the Cabinet Office but I was never convinced his supposed savings worked out in the long term: public health advertising being one example. And clearly none of his reforms on efficiency stood the test of time when it came to the billions wasted during the pandemic. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 11:39]
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You are right about the time Raab was given to brief the press before the findings were released to anyone else. Two full hours. And everyone knows that if you get your lies out fast enough, there is only a very short timespan before it becomes the narrative. That’s what happened here.
Sunak was in support of Raab but couldn’t go too far because of the way the inquiry was done. The burden of proof was laid on the accusers with evidence. Raab challenged on everything, including how long ago an accusation was made. On that basis anyone committing a murder five years ago should not be tried. Ludicrous.
The way in which the enquiry was done was skewed in the favour of Raab. He was allowed to review it before publication and challenge in 2.5 days of questioning. He was still found guilty on two counts yet blames the report, the victims, the CS and presumably Sooty and Sweep if he can find a reason. The reality is that there’s a lot more brown stuff under this that will be suppressed for now.
What people don’t realise that those making the complaints are very senior people. Most of those I came across were very able and dedicated too. Their careers are now over. Some of them will not be career civil servants either, any more than a good percentage of the people working on Brexit were - they had to bring in a lot of contractors because under tory austerity (Maude and co) many Departments’ project people had been got rid of.
The conservative media is fully on board with the Rees-Mogg, Raab version of the world, whether it’s mocking civil servants for not being able to take a little bit of criticism (nonsense) or that the tories had to fight the CS to get Brexit done. The latter couldn’t be more wrong. That’s not an opinion either. It’s a statement of fact.
Nearly two long years years before this vindictive, ignorant shower are thrown out. I dread to think what they’ll ‘achieve’ in that time. Bet a couple of my buddies still vote for them too. | | | |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 13:06 - Apr 23 with 330 views | DJR |
| Hopefully Dominic Raab's fall on 12:11 - Apr 23 by Churchman |
You are right about the time Raab was given to brief the press before the findings were released to anyone else. Two full hours. And everyone knows that if you get your lies out fast enough, there is only a very short timespan before it becomes the narrative. That’s what happened here.
Sunak was in support of Raab but couldn’t go too far because of the way the inquiry was done. The burden of proof was laid on the accusers with evidence. Raab challenged on everything, including how long ago an accusation was made. On that basis anyone committing a murder five years ago should not be tried. Ludicrous.
The way in which the enquiry was done was skewed in the favour of Raab. He was allowed to review it before publication and challenge in 2.5 days of questioning. He was still found guilty on two counts yet blames the report, the victims, the CS and presumably Sooty and Sweep if he can find a reason. The reality is that there’s a lot more brown stuff under this that will be suppressed for now.
What people don’t realise that those making the complaints are very senior people. Most of those I came across were very able and dedicated too. Their careers are now over. Some of them will not be career civil servants either, any more than a good percentage of the people working on Brexit were - they had to bring in a lot of contractors because under tory austerity (Maude and co) many Departments’ project people had been got rid of.
The conservative media is fully on board with the Rees-Mogg, Raab version of the world, whether it’s mocking civil servants for not being able to take a little bit of criticism (nonsense) or that the tories had to fight the CS to get Brexit done. The latter couldn’t be more wrong. That’s not an opinion either. It’s a statement of fact.
Nearly two long years years before this vindictive, ignorant shower are thrown out. I dread to think what they’ll ‘achieve’ in that time. Bet a couple of my buddies still vote for them too. |
More like 24 hours for Raab and Sunak to concoct the story!
And Sunak deliberately chose not to instruct Tolley to rule on whether Raab had broken the Ministerial Code, which the adviser on ministerial standards (deliberately not in post) would have done. This enabled the debate to turn on whether or not Raab had been a bully
As regards public servants, I never understood their voting for the Tories with austerity and real terms pay cuts on offer, but I believe that roughly the same percentage of public servants voted for Cameron in 2010 as did the public at large. Christmas, turkey, and voting springs to mind. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 13:07]
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