| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me 19:33 - Jun 12 with 3442 views | WeWereZombies |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-65882169
Accepted that the mother was circumventing the usual procedures and caused a distressing and ultimately fatal birth but the issues around her decision surely called for some clemency. Smacks of influence and pressure from United States based attitudes to me. |  |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:12 - Jun 13 with 828 views | chicoazul |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 09:33 - Jun 13 by WeWereZombies |
Presumably the poster you are referring to is Chico's offhand, look at me, initial response (although his following post I read as a caustic support for the judgement.)
As far as deterrence (which I regard as almost as weak as a GJA as the lex talionis) goes the outcry that the judgement has caused shows a clear failure in that respect. |
Always funny to read people who literally start threads accusing other people who respond to them of attention seeking. |  |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:16 - Jun 13 with 807 views | WeWereZombies |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:08 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
No. Wasn't referring to Chico. It was an answer from another poster to NSB asking "Would you feel the same had it been post-natal instead of pre-natal"? |
I think you have misunderstood both NthsuffBlues post (which was in support of the sentencing) and MattinLondon's response. | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:21 - Jun 13 with 796 views | WeWereZombies |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:12 - Jun 13 by chicoazul |
Always funny to read people who literally start threads accusing other people who respond to them of attention seeking. |
There is opening up a topic for discussion and then there is flippancy, isn't there ? | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:27 - Jun 13 with 777 views | GlasgowBlue |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:16 - Jun 13 by WeWereZombies |
I think you have misunderstood both NthsuffBlues post (which was in support of the sentencing) and MattinLondon's response. |
I haven't misunderstood anything. NSB made it perfectly clear that didn't believe the sentence was harsh. MIL disagreed.
MIL said that he would feel the same if the mother had ended the baby's life post natal. |  |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:28 - Jun 13 with 769 views | Bramidan |
It strikes me that this person needs help for her mental health rather than a jail sentence but I would presume reports about her mental health were obtained as part of the case.
I can’t really see what a jail sentence is supposed to achieve. A deterrent? I can’t recall ever reading about a similar case so who is it going to deter? |  | | |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:33 - Jun 13 with 753 views | MattinLondon |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:16 - Jun 13 by WeWereZombies |
I think you have misunderstood both NthsuffBlues post (which was in support of the sentencing) and MattinLondon's response. |
It’s a difficult one to answer without being misunderstood. I’ll try again.
As a man I don’t think that I’ll ever truly be able to understand the trauma and psychological damage which childbirth can bring to some women. At a very simple level - it must be bloody terrifying to go through it. Sever Depression, desperation etc takes hold of some women resulting in some doing things which appear to be awful and needing of punishment. These factors must be looked at and I don’t think a prison term does anyone any good.
Obviously someone killing a baby or child with no ‘outside’ factors deserves to be imprisoned. But thankfully that is very very rare. |  | | |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:36 - Jun 13 with 739 views | MattinLondon |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:27 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't misunderstood anything. NSB made it perfectly clear that didn't believe the sentence was harsh. MIL disagreed.
MIL said that he would feel the same if the mother had ended the baby's life post natal. |
Either you’ve misunderstood what I posted, I wasn’t clear or you’re being disingenuous. Either way, I’ve clarified what I meant. | | | |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:37 - Jun 13 with 737 views | MattinLondon |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 09:02 - Jun 13 by chicoazul |
How old should babies be before mums can’t kill them? [Post edited 13 Jun 2023 9:02]
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Do you think that abortion is murder even before the UK’s legal limits? | | | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:37 - Jun 13 with 737 views | WeWereZombies |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:27 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't misunderstood anything. NSB made it perfectly clear that didn't believe the sentence was harsh. MIL disagreed.
MIL said that he would feel the same if the mother had ended the baby's life post natal. |
MattinLondon has articulated his position some more now and, hopefully, you can appreciate that he was not advocating what you accused him of. And re-reading the thread I note that NthsuffBlue was not only in favour of a custodial sentence but also the length of the sentence. I do not agree with that poster but I do approve of the eloquence with which they have gone about stating their position. | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:42 - Jun 13 with 721 views | chicoazul |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:37 - Jun 13 by MattinLondon |
Do you think that abortion is murder even before the UK’s legal limits? |
Murder? No. | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 11:03 - Jun 13 with 679 views | GlasgowBlue |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 10:36 - Jun 13 by MattinLondon |
Either you’ve misunderstood what I posted, I wasn’t clear or you’re being disingenuous. Either way, I’ve clarified what I meant. |
I can't see what I have misunderstood.
MIL: And whilst acknowledging what she did was totally wrong I still think that a jail term will offer nothing to her, her family as well as to society.
NSB: Would you feel the same had it been post-natal instead of pre-natal?
MIL: I think so, yes.
You've since expanded on your op, but you made it perfectly clear that you didn't believe a jail sentence would be appropriate had the baby's life been deliberately ended after birth by the mother.
I'm not looking for a row but I find that incredible. | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 11:15 - Jun 13 with 659 views | chicoazul |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 11:03 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I can't see what I have misunderstood.
MIL: And whilst acknowledging what she did was totally wrong I still think that a jail term will offer nothing to her, her family as well as to society.
NSB: Would you feel the same had it been post-natal instead of pre-natal?
MIL: I think so, yes.
You've since expanded on your op, but you made it perfectly clear that you didn't believe a jail sentence would be appropriate had the baby's life been deliberately ended after birth by the mother.
I'm not looking for a row but I find that incredible. |
I just don’t think he understood what post natal meant. This is like that time Warky1970 thought D-day and Dunkirk were the same battle. | |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 11:19 - Jun 13 with 643 views | Steve_M |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 09:19 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve read words like ‘offence’ and ‘punishment’ but nobody has mentioned ‘deterrent’.
None of can claim to know the state of this woman’s mental health at the time she aborted her baby. But it was a baby. Not a foetus. A baby that if born at the time she aborted, could have gone on to lead a healthy life.
It may seem very cruel to imprison this lady, but as a deterrent it sends out a very strong message. And I’m completely gobsmacked to read one poster say that she should not have been imprisoned if she had taken the decision to kill her baby after birth. [Post edited 13 Jun 2023 10:21]
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I did type 'deterrent' as I was writing my post, but I can't see that this offers much of one given that the covid lockdown made this a pretty rare case.
I did see yesterday, but am not certain on the accuracy, that had the woman admitted the offence earlier then the judge would have been able to give a suspended sentence which seems more appropriate to the circumstances. Why she did not do so is open to question obviously. |  |
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| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 11:33 - Jun 13 with 607 views | MattinLondon |
| A jail sentence seems way too harsh to me on 11:03 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I can't see what I have misunderstood.
MIL: And whilst acknowledging what she did was totally wrong I still think that a jail term will offer nothing to her, her family as well as to society.
NSB: Would you feel the same had it been post-natal instead of pre-natal?
MIL: I think so, yes.
You've since expanded on your op, but you made it perfectly clear that you didn't believe a jail sentence would be appropriate had the baby's life been deliberately ended after birth by the mother.
I'm not looking for a row but I find that incredible. |
You’ve selected a few sentences of that reply to support your position which I find in bad taste. I did originally include mental health issues etc to highlight my position - something which you opted to ignore.
I’m not particularly looking for a row either. | | | |
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