| Has this sunk in with you yet? 23:03 - Jun 22 with 3853 views | NthQldITFC |
Ecological tipping points could occur much sooner than expected, study finds.
Amazon rainforest and other ecosystems could collapse ‘very soon’, researchers warn.
“It could happen very soon,” said Prof Simon Willcock of Rothamsted Research, who co-led the study. “We could realistically be the last generation to see the Amazon.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/22/ecological-tipping-points-co
Why have we not yet decided to pull together to see if we can make a difference?
Do we have to face up to an imminent cascade of collapsing ecosystems, human life-support systems and civil society at some point, or do we just keep putting it off until it happens?
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 23:51 - Jun 22 with 2937 views | FromReuserWithLove |
Problem is the decisions for our earth are made by select few egotistical narcissistic capitalist morons.
Not long ago the global masses were sitting and hoping the likes of Boris Johnson and Trump make the correct choices for all humanity. We deserve annihilation. |  | | |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 06:55 - Jun 23 with 2777 views | Guthrum |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 23:51 - Jun 22 by FromReuserWithLove |
Problem is the decisions for our earth are made by select few egotistical narcissistic capitalist morons.
Not long ago the global masses were sitting and hoping the likes of Boris Johnson and Trump make the correct choices for all humanity. We deserve annihilation. |
All frantically lobbied by and donated to by a collection of elderly rich people who seek extreme wealth for the status and will have shuffled off before the merde collides with the ventilator so don't care about the long term. |  |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 08:23 - Jun 23 with 2697 views | NthQldITFC |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 23:51 - Jun 22 by FromReuserWithLove |
Problem is the decisions for our earth are made by select few egotistical narcissistic capitalist morons.
Not long ago the global masses were sitting and hoping the likes of Boris Johnson and Trump make the correct choices for all humanity. We deserve annihilation. |
Agreed, but the drip, drip, drip of information and nagging and conscience pricking could theoretically eventually trigger a flow and then a cascade and then a deluge of revolutionary democratic pressure from the bottom up, which has at least a notional chance of making a significant difference to a horrific outcome, which is looming ever closer.
We have to try, even if the w@nkers who hold the reins now won't. It's irresponsible and complicit to do otherwise, and a death warrant for our offspring. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 10:10 - Jun 23 with 2642 views | WeWereZombies |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 08:23 - Jun 23 by NthQldITFC |
Agreed, but the drip, drip, drip of information and nagging and conscience pricking could theoretically eventually trigger a flow and then a cascade and then a deluge of revolutionary democratic pressure from the bottom up, which has at least a notional chance of making a significant difference to a horrific outcome, which is looming ever closer.
We have to try, even if the w@nkers who hold the reins now won't. It's irresponsible and complicit to do otherwise, and a death warrant for our offspring. |
Do they hold the reins ? Or are we holding the reins but allowing ourselves to be set on a course by a constant nudging of weasel words in the earbuds we have in to allow us some music on the way ? In other words, don't sit around expecting others to fix the environment for you, develop your life to live outside the influence of the power hungry as much as you can. |  |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 11:10 - Jun 23 with 2607 views | J2BLUE |
They don't care.
The richest will prepare and evolve. The disasters will kill off a few billion and they can maintain control over the plebs that remain and probably hoard an even greater share of resources. |  |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? (n/t) on 11:14 - Jun 23 with 2588 views | NthQldITFC |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 10:10 - Jun 23 by WeWereZombies |
Do they hold the reins ? Or are we holding the reins but allowing ourselves to be set on a course by a constant nudging of weasel words in the earbuds we have in to allow us some music on the way ? In other words, don't sit around expecting others to fix the environment for you, develop your life to live outside the influence of the power hungry as much as you can. |
Yes. We do actually hold the reins don't we. We just have to realise that and we can start to change things. In order to do that we have to admit to ourselves that to some extent we are currently handing the reins over in order to pretend that we can absolve ourselves of our responsibilities.
While we still have democracy we are still in charge of our destiny, but under an authoritarian regime in a collapsing world we might not have that choice. How long have we got to take responsibility and to take the reins? [Post edited 23 Jun 2023 11:18]
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 11:36 - Jun 23 with 2543 views | BlueBadger |
Yes, but someone got held up on their commute the other day. |  |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 12:14 - Jun 23 with 2495 views | eireblue |
Oh it will be fine……
No,….what I mean by that is, previously scientists warned things were going to get bad in about 50 years, plenty of time to fix things before then obvs, no need to go all doom mongery, now when things go very bad in less than 10 years, well clearly that will be the scientists fault, again, tut, should have been more clear, if only the scientists had been more accurate… [Post edited 23 Jun 2023 12:54]
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:17 - Jun 23 with 2427 views | WeWereZombies |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 11:10 - Jun 23 by J2BLUE |
They don't care.
The richest will prepare and evolve. The disasters will kill off a few billion and they can maintain control over the plebs that remain and probably hoard an even greater share of resources. |
Does evolution work like that ? Much of it is down to genetic variation, i.e. the traits that help a species succeed are not a deterministic system but a heuristic stroke of good fortune, being in the right place at the right time with a peculiarity that helps it thrive when other species, and some of its own species, are withering. Survival of the fittest is not necessarily about the strongest, or richest, but about those who fit the circumstances to achieve natural selection. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:27 - Jun 23 with 2397 views | J2BLUE |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:17 - Jun 23 by WeWereZombies |
Does evolution work like that ? Much of it is down to genetic variation, i.e. the traits that help a species succeed are not a deterministic system but a heuristic stroke of good fortune, being in the right place at the right time with a peculiarity that helps it thrive when other species, and some of its own species, are withering. Survival of the fittest is not necessarily about the strongest, or richest, but about those who fit the circumstances to achieve natural selection. |
Never suggested anything else.
Having a large amount of money isn't going to hurt though is it? House in a location away from most of the dangers with plenty of land to grow your own food etc etc | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:38 - Jun 23 with 2377 views | WeWereZombies |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:27 - Jun 23 by J2BLUE |
Never suggested anything else.
Having a large amount of money isn't going to hurt though is it? House in a location away from most of the dangers with plenty of land to grow your own food etc etc |
The issue with location is that new effects of global heating are appearing with each passing year. For example, Lytton in British Colombia may have seemed a nice place to live two years ago but the extreme heat wave that struck the area (and this is Canada) changed all that:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/10/world/canada/canadian-wildfire-british-columb
And land to grow your own food probably needs some workers to tend that produce and some security to guard it, when push comes to shove do you keep obeying the boss or do you grab what you can for yourself ? | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:46 - Jun 23 with 2343 views | J2BLUE |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:38 - Jun 23 by WeWereZombies |
The issue with location is that new effects of global heating are appearing with each passing year. For example, Lytton in British Colombia may have seemed a nice place to live two years ago but the extreme heat wave that struck the area (and this is Canada) changed all that:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/10/world/canada/canadian-wildfire-british-columb
And land to grow your own food probably needs some workers to tend that produce and some security to guard it, when push comes to shove do you keep obeying the boss or do you grab what you can for yourself ? |
Depends how much you're paying them. This is an odd exchange. The rich will be in a better place to manage the consequences. I don't think that is controversial. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:50 - Jun 23 with 2334 views | WeWereZombies |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 14:46 - Jun 23 by J2BLUE |
Depends how much you're paying them. This is an odd exchange. The rich will be in a better place to manage the consequences. I don't think that is controversial. |
You see, managing the consequences depends on knowing the likely consequences. As the physicist Paul Dirac famously, but unhelpfully, said 'Prediction is a tricky business, especially when it's about the future.' | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:00 - Jun 23 with 2302 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
What do we do though? We've always talked about the cumulative effects of small, individual actions like recycling, changing of habits and lifestyles etc. Those are all well and good, and I suspect most people have done at least something, but it clearly isn't enough.
We're stuck in a world where there is no will from the people who can actually make a difference to make that difference. Environmental targets never go far enough and almost always get pushed back or heavily compromised. There are huge groups of people that collectively roll their eyes at the mention of climate change, let alone things like veganism or going further, the slowdown or reversal of "growth". Big business doesn't want it, the politicians submit to big business and the person on the street is dealing with things that seem more pressing and tangible to them - not being able to pay rent for example. Add in the divisive machinations of the media and social media and you have a perfect recipe for failure.
The west has greedily benefited from industrialisation, making it difficult to persuade emerging states that we are all in this together. Short of a genuine global revolution, I just don't see any meaningful change coming. That's incredibly depressing but these issues have been hanging over our heads for decades and yet here we still are.
Perhaps my response is overly doom-laden, but I don't really see any reasons to be optimistic about this. To the OP, this is clearly something you are very passionate about and more power to you. Your frustrations and hurt seem entirely appropriate, as do those of the various protest groups that are regularly chastised for the crime of causing an inconvenience. What I ask then, is what do you believe we should be doing as individuals to actually force a collective change? |  |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:10 - Jun 23 with 2276 views | WeWereZombies |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:00 - Jun 23 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
What do we do though? We've always talked about the cumulative effects of small, individual actions like recycling, changing of habits and lifestyles etc. Those are all well and good, and I suspect most people have done at least something, but it clearly isn't enough.
We're stuck in a world where there is no will from the people who can actually make a difference to make that difference. Environmental targets never go far enough and almost always get pushed back or heavily compromised. There are huge groups of people that collectively roll their eyes at the mention of climate change, let alone things like veganism or going further, the slowdown or reversal of "growth". Big business doesn't want it, the politicians submit to big business and the person on the street is dealing with things that seem more pressing and tangible to them - not being able to pay rent for example. Add in the divisive machinations of the media and social media and you have a perfect recipe for failure.
The west has greedily benefited from industrialisation, making it difficult to persuade emerging states that we are all in this together. Short of a genuine global revolution, I just don't see any meaningful change coming. That's incredibly depressing but these issues have been hanging over our heads for decades and yet here we still are.
Perhaps my response is overly doom-laden, but I don't really see any reasons to be optimistic about this. To the OP, this is clearly something you are very passionate about and more power to you. Your frustrations and hurt seem entirely appropriate, as do those of the various protest groups that are regularly chastised for the crime of causing an inconvenience. What I ask then, is what do you believe we should be doing as individuals to actually force a collective change? |
Couple of points, becoming Vegan does not always improve an environment and secondly, optimism is not necessary for survival and it might even detract from your chances. So balance, pragmatism and realism are better facets in my view. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:30 - Jun 23 with 2261 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:10 - Jun 23 by WeWereZombies |
Couple of points, becoming Vegan does not always improve an environment and secondly, optimism is not necessary for survival and it might even detract from your chances. So balance, pragmatism and realism are better facets in my view. |
True. For want of a less pretentious phrase, I suppose what I am talking about is "informed veganism" whereby the changes have at least some environmental benefit as well as the benefit to the treatment of animals. I agree about what you say on optimism, but unfortunately the chances of a global revolution seem even less likely when I put my pragmatic hat on. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:32 - Jun 23 with 2258 views | NthQldITFC |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:00 - Jun 23 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
What do we do though? We've always talked about the cumulative effects of small, individual actions like recycling, changing of habits and lifestyles etc. Those are all well and good, and I suspect most people have done at least something, but it clearly isn't enough.
We're stuck in a world where there is no will from the people who can actually make a difference to make that difference. Environmental targets never go far enough and almost always get pushed back or heavily compromised. There are huge groups of people that collectively roll their eyes at the mention of climate change, let alone things like veganism or going further, the slowdown or reversal of "growth". Big business doesn't want it, the politicians submit to big business and the person on the street is dealing with things that seem more pressing and tangible to them - not being able to pay rent for example. Add in the divisive machinations of the media and social media and you have a perfect recipe for failure.
The west has greedily benefited from industrialisation, making it difficult to persuade emerging states that we are all in this together. Short of a genuine global revolution, I just don't see any meaningful change coming. That's incredibly depressing but these issues have been hanging over our heads for decades and yet here we still are.
Perhaps my response is overly doom-laden, but I don't really see any reasons to be optimistic about this. To the OP, this is clearly something you are very passionate about and more power to you. Your frustrations and hurt seem entirely appropriate, as do those of the various protest groups that are regularly chastised for the crime of causing an inconvenience. What I ask then, is what do you believe we should be doing as individuals to actually force a collective change? |
I believe that your 'genuine global revolution' is the only answer, or at least the only hope of an answer. Until we all decide that continuing to exist in a more or less functional biosphere is more important than personal wealth and ego, we are doomed, as is the bulk of that biosphere.
But what if we obliterated the concept of money? What if we all kept doing the sort of work we are doing if it provided food or warmth or shelter, and stopped doing what we are doing if it provided only luxuries, disposable toys, meaningless financial 'products', the next gizmo etc.? What if some of those who were producing the latter, started helping in the former? What if the results were then shared out worldwide without any concept of payment or capital, but only of equitable distribution. What if millions upon millions of others spent their time seriously cleaning up the damage we've already done? And all of them valued equally and fed, watered, housed and entertained equally.
I can guarantee that the average person would be a far happier person, and that the world would have the best chance possible (short of mass extinction of the human race) of some kind of stabilisation and a new equilibrium. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:54 - Jun 23 with 2227 views | eireblue |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:10 - Jun 23 by WeWereZombies |
Couple of points, becoming Vegan does not always improve an environment and secondly, optimism is not necessary for survival and it might even detract from your chances. So balance, pragmatism and realism are better facets in my view. |
Doesn’t stop you being a vegan that does check the environmental box as well. | | | |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 16:05 - Jun 23 with 2209 views | Bluespeed225 |
This subject was part of the storyline in the film version of “Bless This House’ in about 1973, and Rodney Trotter was campaigning inthe mid 80’s. We’ll all try our best, but will ultimately roast to death as about 1000 people survive in their bunkers. I’d rather be out. | | | |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 16:30 - Jun 23 with 2182 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:32 - Jun 23 by NthQldITFC |
I believe that your 'genuine global revolution' is the only answer, or at least the only hope of an answer. Until we all decide that continuing to exist in a more or less functional biosphere is more important than personal wealth and ego, we are doomed, as is the bulk of that biosphere.
But what if we obliterated the concept of money? What if we all kept doing the sort of work we are doing if it provided food or warmth or shelter, and stopped doing what we are doing if it provided only luxuries, disposable toys, meaningless financial 'products', the next gizmo etc.? What if some of those who were producing the latter, started helping in the former? What if the results were then shared out worldwide without any concept of payment or capital, but only of equitable distribution. What if millions upon millions of others spent their time seriously cleaning up the damage we've already done? And all of them valued equally and fed, watered, housed and entertained equally.
I can guarantee that the average person would be a far happier person, and that the world would have the best chance possible (short of mass extinction of the human race) of some kind of stabilisation and a new equilibrium. |
I think I would much prefer to live in that kind of world to the one we currently inhabit. It's sad that what you propose is actually very simple and yet most people (many of whom would stand to benefit) will roll their eyes and call it sixth form politics before moving on to something shiny. Holding myself to account, I should do more while postulating and procrastinating less. I think as before that we are probably doomed but it would be nice to feel less individually guilty about our collective fate.
Happy Friday by the way! | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 16:52 - Jun 23 with 2161 views | NthQldITFC |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 16:30 - Jun 23 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
I think I would much prefer to live in that kind of world to the one we currently inhabit. It's sad that what you propose is actually very simple and yet most people (many of whom would stand to benefit) will roll their eyes and call it sixth form politics before moving on to something shiny. Holding myself to account, I should do more while postulating and procrastinating less. I think as before that we are probably doomed but it would be nice to feel less individually guilty about our collective fate.
Happy Friday by the way! |
It's sixth form politics from me at best, I'm afraid, cos that's all I've got and yet my gut feel is that there's truth in simplicity sometimes and that complex economics might be, occasionally, at lot of old pretentious ballocks designed to protect the suicidal status quo.
On the personal front, minimise my carbon footprint (and plastic/waste/everything footprint), try to engage others in discussion in the hope that they might do the same, vote as well as possible, and at least consider direct action when conscience and bravery and anger overcome fear and timidity and negativity.
Edit: The sixth form politics observation is clearly valid within the context of our existing, complex political/economic system. But I believe that system is about to collapse, and then we will need a back to basics, all hands to the pump, simple and universally understandable and buy-in-able reset if we expect law and order and civil society to survive.
The sort of arguments you hear like "it's naive to expect to be able to do this given the balance of payments, international debt, hedge fund wassname, blah, blah, blah" which might seem so important and existential to the world right now, will all evaporate like piss in a boiling wind storm when countries start militarily competing for failing resources. [Post edited 23 Jun 2023 16:59]
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 18:43 - Jun 23 with 2086 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 16:52 - Jun 23 by NthQldITFC |
It's sixth form politics from me at best, I'm afraid, cos that's all I've got and yet my gut feel is that there's truth in simplicity sometimes and that complex economics might be, occasionally, at lot of old pretentious ballocks designed to protect the suicidal status quo.
On the personal front, minimise my carbon footprint (and plastic/waste/everything footprint), try to engage others in discussion in the hope that they might do the same, vote as well as possible, and at least consider direct action when conscience and bravery and anger overcome fear and timidity and negativity.
Edit: The sixth form politics observation is clearly valid within the context of our existing, complex political/economic system. But I believe that system is about to collapse, and then we will need a back to basics, all hands to the pump, simple and universally understandable and buy-in-able reset if we expect law and order and civil society to survive.
The sort of arguments you hear like "it's naive to expect to be able to do this given the balance of payments, international debt, hedge fund wassname, blah, blah, blah" which might seem so important and existential to the world right now, will all evaporate like piss in a boiling wind storm when countries start militarily competing for failing resources. [Post edited 23 Jun 2023 16:59]
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I'm inclined to agree with that. Every few years the market gets the jitters and normal people suffer and yet the ones telling us that we are naive somehow seem to continue as if nothing had happened for the most part. I hope you are right about a fairly imminent collapse as it seems to me to be about the only chance of a course correction.
Likewise on the actions. I think I need to be more consistent and determined with it though. It's easy to make an excuse for some of the things we do that don't help the situation, so I think I will aim to be a bit tougher on myself with that. Keep up the good work of spreading the important news, even if at times it will feel like you're calling into the abyss. | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 19:19 - Jun 23 with 2058 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 08:23 - Jun 23 by NthQldITFC |
Agreed, but the drip, drip, drip of information and nagging and conscience pricking could theoretically eventually trigger a flow and then a cascade and then a deluge of revolutionary democratic pressure from the bottom up, which has at least a notional chance of making a significant difference to a horrific outcome, which is looming ever closer.
We have to try, even if the w@nkers who hold the reins now won't. It's irresponsible and complicit to do otherwise, and a death warrant for our offspring. |
We could try but people might be late for appointments. |  |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 19:26 - Jun 23 with 2051 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 15:32 - Jun 23 by NthQldITFC |
I believe that your 'genuine global revolution' is the only answer, or at least the only hope of an answer. Until we all decide that continuing to exist in a more or less functional biosphere is more important than personal wealth and ego, we are doomed, as is the bulk of that biosphere.
But what if we obliterated the concept of money? What if we all kept doing the sort of work we are doing if it provided food or warmth or shelter, and stopped doing what we are doing if it provided only luxuries, disposable toys, meaningless financial 'products', the next gizmo etc.? What if some of those who were producing the latter, started helping in the former? What if the results were then shared out worldwide without any concept of payment or capital, but only of equitable distribution. What if millions upon millions of others spent their time seriously cleaning up the damage we've already done? And all of them valued equally and fed, watered, housed and entertained equally.
I can guarantee that the average person would be a far happier person, and that the world would have the best chance possible (short of mass extinction of the human race) of some kind of stabilisation and a new equilibrium. |
"But what if we obliterated the concept of money? What if we all kept doing the sort of work we are doing if it provided food or warmth or shelter, and stopped doing what we are doing if it provided only luxuries, disposable toys, meaningless financial 'products', the next gizmo etc.?"
So it's not just me then!!  | |
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| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 19:29 - Jun 23 with 2046 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Has this sunk in with you yet? on 16:30 - Jun 23 by SlippinJimmyJuan |
I think I would much prefer to live in that kind of world to the one we currently inhabit. It's sad that what you propose is actually very simple and yet most people (many of whom would stand to benefit) will roll their eyes and call it sixth form politics before moving on to something shiny. Holding myself to account, I should do more while postulating and procrastinating less. I think as before that we are probably doomed but it would be nice to feel less individually guilty about our collective fate.
Happy Friday by the way! |
It's time for the sixth form WhatsApp group. We can say mean stuff about J2. | |
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