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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 257314 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:25 - Nov 15 with 2849 viewsDJR

This from an UNWRA spokesman.

"In Rafah all (10) water wells have stopped pumping – the only source of water in the city – why? – no fuel. The Khan Younis desalination plant has stopped working – supplies drinking water for 100,000s of people – why? – no fuel. No sewage pumping in Rafah all (3) sewage pumps have stopped working – simply because they ran out of fuel.!"

"Just received 23,027 litres of fuel from Egypt (half a tanker) – but its use has been restricted by Israeli authorities – only for transporting aid from Rafah. No fuel for water or hospitals. This is only 9% of what we need daily to sustain lifesaving activities."

Why ask people to go to the south, if the conditions are so appalling, and in due course will presumably lead to civilian deaths from disease, which is starting to circulate?

And one has to ask why is what is going on (or not going on) on the humanitarian front necessary to defeat Hamas?
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 12:33]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:52 - Nov 15 with 2742 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:25 - Nov 15 by DJR

This from an UNWRA spokesman.

"In Rafah all (10) water wells have stopped pumping – the only source of water in the city – why? – no fuel. The Khan Younis desalination plant has stopped working – supplies drinking water for 100,000s of people – why? – no fuel. No sewage pumping in Rafah all (3) sewage pumps have stopped working – simply because they ran out of fuel.!"

"Just received 23,027 litres of fuel from Egypt (half a tanker) – but its use has been restricted by Israeli authorities – only for transporting aid from Rafah. No fuel for water or hospitals. This is only 9% of what we need daily to sustain lifesaving activities."

Why ask people to go to the south, if the conditions are so appalling, and in due course will presumably lead to civilian deaths from disease, which is starting to circulate?

And one has to ask why is what is going on (or not going on) on the humanitarian front necessary to defeat Hamas?
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 12:33]


Another reason to get rid of Hamas. They have fuel to fire rockets at Israel, but not to supply their citizens with energy.

FREE PALESTINE - FROM HAMAS

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:58 - Nov 15 with 2774 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:56 - Nov 15 by giant_stow

They thought they had done just that - turned out they were wrong. Given the thousands of reservists currently called up, are you suggesting that all those individuals are mean to permanently sacrifice their lives to patrolling a border for evermore? And how can any border ever be truly 100% solid? Its must be many 10s of miles long - I'm no military bod, but surely a concentrated attack could get through even the best protection?


That was one of Banksters critiques as well.

Isreal should have put soldiers on the other side of the border.

Of course Isreal did have soldiers, in the past, on or near the border.

Guess what a terrorist organisation that can launch rockets miles into civilian areas does with soldiers 500 meters away. And guess who they are standing behind when doing that.

Some musings on a similar theme, not a response to your post:

I think this maybe a relevant point, especially when it comes to people thinking, there is a simple option of talking.

Terrorists and killers don’t necessarily think the same way as others would like them to.
An example, in a history book, interactions between the U.K. Government and the IRA, was mentioned.
A U.K. minister said in talks, roughly, we don’t care how many people you kill over here, to some IRA negotiators.

The IRA interpretation of that was, fine, we will kill more people over there. Hence bombing on the mainland.

Hamas have not yet committed to stop repressing and killing people.

As an aside the infant mortality rate, under the control of Hamas, that had 100’s of millions of pounds to spend on rockets, was pretty bad. Babies were dying, it is easy to use emotive arguments.

We know after each ceasefire, Hamas will kill more people.

If people are going to argue about numbers of people killed and deaths.

On 8th of October, what would have been the acceptable number of ongoing deaths due to leaving Hamas in power that would have been acceptable to people, if we want to be emotive, we could include infant mortality under Hamas.

Now I can anticipate what some people might say, part of the issue of health in Gaza is a result of the blockade.
Before making that argument, I would suggest remembering that at anytime during the past 15 or so years, Hamas, could have decided to lay down arms.


As an aside, there are some pacifists like Einstein and even people that were members of CND back in the day and served time in prison, for being pacifists, that still thought of pacifism as not a goal in and of itself. Sometimes, there will be no option but to resort to violence.

Again I ask, in this totting up of numbers, on 8th of October, what would have been the ongoing rates of death and misery people would have deemed acceptable to grant to Hamas.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:08 - Nov 15 with 2728 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:25 - Nov 15 by DJR

This from an UNWRA spokesman.

"In Rafah all (10) water wells have stopped pumping – the only source of water in the city – why? – no fuel. The Khan Younis desalination plant has stopped working – supplies drinking water for 100,000s of people – why? – no fuel. No sewage pumping in Rafah all (3) sewage pumps have stopped working – simply because they ran out of fuel.!"

"Just received 23,027 litres of fuel from Egypt (half a tanker) – but its use has been restricted by Israeli authorities – only for transporting aid from Rafah. No fuel for water or hospitals. This is only 9% of what we need daily to sustain lifesaving activities."

Why ask people to go to the south, if the conditions are so appalling, and in due course will presumably lead to civilian deaths from disease, which is starting to circulate?

And one has to ask why is what is going on (or not going on) on the humanitarian front necessary to defeat Hamas?
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 12:33]


CNN are reporting that Biden has said a deal is close free the Isreali hostages, with a (presumably temporary) ceasefire in exchange.

I’d take that with a pinch of salt though as similar claims have been made by the US in the past couple of weeks.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:23 - Nov 15 with 2680 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:52 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue

Another reason to get rid of Hamas. They have fuel to fire rockets at Israel, but not to supply their citizens with energy.

FREE PALESTINE - FROM HAMAS


While killing thousands of their children.
Palestinian children really don't need your twisted support
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:35 - Nov 15 with 2644 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:34 - Nov 15 by noggin

If I had said this regarding the 7th Oct. attacks, I would rightly have been criticised and accused of anti semitism. It is never acceptable to target civilians, war or no war.


They are not being targeted. They are collateral damage, as is always the case in war.

Your energy should be directed at Hamas and asking why they would not heed warnings and clear civilian areas and buildings before strikes, why are they using them as human shields, why do they build their operation centres within and under civilian infrastructure?

You don’t seem to won’t to ask these questions or reflect on them as you seem to have one overwhelming view, which normally is that of someone who wants to see the erasing of the Israeli state, and as I am sure you would agree is genocidal.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:28]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:36 - Nov 15 with 2636 viewsBlueschev

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:52 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue

Another reason to get rid of Hamas. They have fuel to fire rockets at Israel, but not to supply their citizens with energy.

FREE PALESTINE - FROM HAMAS


Given the current trajectory there won't be a Palestine to free from Hamas. It is literally being wiped off the map, and was being wiped off the map long before Hamas ever came to power.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:41 - Nov 15 with 2616 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:30 - Nov 15 by noggin

Anyone that thinks the destruction of Hamas (and with it, the slaughter of thousands of innocent Palestinians) will stop the violence, is deluded.


This is pretty much where I sit - just kicking the can down the road for another XX years of conflict.

It’s not easy to destroy an ideology. Just as the ‘Global War on Terror’ failed to eradicate Al Queda, the Taliban, and ISIS (and I very much view include Hamas in the same grouping).
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:42 - Nov 15 with 2614 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:35 - Nov 15 by Rob88

They are not being targeted. They are collateral damage, as is always the case in war.

Your energy should be directed at Hamas and asking why they would not heed warnings and clear civilian areas and buildings before strikes, why are they using them as human shields, why do they build their operation centres within and under civilian infrastructure?

You don’t seem to won’t to ask these questions or reflect on them as you seem to have one overwhelming view, which normally is that of someone who wants to see the erasing of the Israeli state, and as I am sure you would agree is genocidal.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:28]


"You won’t ask these questions or reflect on them as you have one overwhelming view, which is the erasing of the Israeli state, and that my friend is genocidal."

Can you show me where I have said, or even indicated that? If you can't I would advise you to delete it. Thank you.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:08 - Nov 15 with 2504 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:36 - Nov 15 by Blueschev

Given the current trajectory there won't be a Palestine to free from Hamas. It is literally being wiped off the map, and was being wiped off the map long before Hamas ever came to power.


If Israel wanted to wipe Gaza off the map then the war would have ended October 8th.

There could have been a two state solution as recently as 2008 btw. Olmert went further than any other Israeli PM in offering a deal. Clinton also had a deal at Camp David that Arafat walked away from.

There is no reason why a change of government in Israel and the removal of Hamas can't see those negotiations bewingf re entered.

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1
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:14 - Nov 15 with 2519 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:42 - Nov 15 by noggin

"You won’t ask these questions or reflect on them as you have one overwhelming view, which is the erasing of the Israeli state, and that my friend is genocidal."

Can you show me where I have said, or even indicated that? If you can't I would advise you to delete it. Thank you.


So you acknowledge that Israel is a sovereign state with a right to exist and therefore defend itself to remain as such?

Also, do you see the irony in you getting uppity after telling me I seem to be supporting the targeting of civilians?

[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:19]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:16 - Nov 15 with 2504 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:14 - Nov 15 by Rob88

So you acknowledge that Israel is a sovereign state with a right to exist and therefore defend itself to remain as such?

Also, do you see the irony in you getting uppity after telling me I seem to be supporting the targeting of civilians?

[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:19]


Yes. Can you show me where I have indicated otherwise? If not, please remove you disgusting accusation.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:17]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:27 - Nov 15 with 2474 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:35 - Nov 15 by Rob88

They are not being targeted. They are collateral damage, as is always the case in war.

Your energy should be directed at Hamas and asking why they would not heed warnings and clear civilian areas and buildings before strikes, why are they using them as human shields, why do they build their operation centres within and under civilian infrastructure?

You don’t seem to won’t to ask these questions or reflect on them as you seem to have one overwhelming view, which normally is that of someone who wants to see the erasing of the Israeli state, and as I am sure you would agree is genocidal.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:28]


Thousands of innocent children as collateral damage? It's a war against children.

Hope you sleep well at night
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:29 - Nov 15 with 2459 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:27 - Nov 15 by leitrimblue

Thousands of innocent children as collateral damage? It's a war against children.

Hope you sleep well at night


I won’t try and reason with you Harry.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:29 - Nov 15 with 2454 viewsBlueschev

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:08 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue

If Israel wanted to wipe Gaza off the map then the war would have ended October 8th.

There could have been a two state solution as recently as 2008 btw. Olmert went further than any other Israeli PM in offering a deal. Clinton also had a deal at Camp David that Arafat walked away from.

There is no reason why a change of government in Israel and the removal of Hamas can't see those negotiations bewingf re entered.


Clinton had a shoddy deal lacking any detail that he knew Arafat would reject back in 2000. And a "state" was never offered. If Israel / US were genuinely interested in a viable Palestinian state then why wasn't settlement building halted in 1993 rather than accelerated?

Which political party in Israel proposing a two state solution even before October 7th has any serious electoral prospects? And on the Palestinian side, do you seriously believe that any political leader could convince the population to go and make peace with a country that has just slaughtered thousands of their kin?

Israel cannot wipe Gaza off the map in one go without causing international outrage, and the US would never allow it. But what has been happening for years now, and has been accelerated in the past month, is the gradual transformation of Gaza in to an uninhabitable hellhole.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:29 - Nov 15 with 2451 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:16 - Nov 15 by noggin

Yes. Can you show me where I have indicated otherwise? If not, please remove you disgusting accusation.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:17]


Edited in line with the standard of argument you set.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:30 - Nov 15 with 2447 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:14 - Nov 15 by Rob88

So you acknowledge that Israel is a sovereign state with a right to exist and therefore defend itself to remain as such?

Also, do you see the irony in you getting uppity after telling me I seem to be supporting the targeting of civilians?

[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:19]


Calling the slaughter of thousands of people 'collateral damage' seems to indicate that.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:33 - Nov 15 with 2434 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:29 - Nov 15 by Rob88

Edited in line with the standard of argument you set.


Not enough I'm afraid. You're still indicating that I am supporting Hamas' ideology.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:33 - Nov 15 with 2431 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:30 - Nov 15 by noggin

Calling the slaughter of thousands of people 'collateral damage' seems to indicate that.


It is collateral damage by definition. That is what it is called. That is a fact! A true one at that.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:43 - Nov 15 with 2383 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:33 - Nov 15 by noggin

Not enough I'm afraid. You're still indicating that I am supporting Hamas' ideology.


Genuine question then.

If you were Israel how would you have responded to the recent attack?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:50 - Nov 15 with 2355 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:43 - Nov 15 by Rob88

Genuine question then.

If you were Israel how would you have responded to the recent attack?


Certainly not by taking even more innocent lives, thereby creating even more hatred.

In the short term, I would shore up the border security, bulldoze the hundreds of settlements in the West Bank and return the land to it's rightful owners
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 15:06]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:57 - Nov 15 with 2325 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:33 - Nov 15 by Rob88

It is collateral damage by definition. That is what it is called. That is a fact! A true one at that.


Collateral damage would be 'unintentional' loss or damage. Targeting a refugee camp or hospital is hardly unintentional when Israel knew there would be civilians there.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:00 - Nov 15 with 2308 viewsRob88

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:50 - Nov 15 by noggin

Certainly not by taking even more innocent lives, thereby creating even more hatred.

In the short term, I would shore up the border security, bulldoze the hundreds of settlements in the West Bank and return the land to it's rightful owners
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 15:06]


So you wouldn’t have responded. I see.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:06 - Nov 15 with 2277 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:29 - Nov 15 by Rob88

I won’t try and reason with you Harry.


As long as you feel feel comfortable justifying the murder of thousands of innocent children Mr Yaxley feel free
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:08 - Nov 15 with 2264 viewsnoggin

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:00 - Nov 15 by Rob88

So you wouldn’t have responded. I see.


See, you are justifying the murder of innocents in their thousands.

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