| FFP restrictions 10:05 - Dec 30 with 1431 views | CopfordBlue |
I’ve read a lot of comments about how it is likely to restrict us next month but can anyone summarise what this means in practice for this window i.e . What the ceiling is for us in terms of transfer fees and salaries assuming we don’t sell any of our key players? Thanks |  |
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| FFP restrictions on 10:13 - Dec 30 with 1369 views | ChampionsofInnsbruck |
It means we don’t have much room for huge changes without reducing our existing expenditure, so we won’t be spending £10-15 million on players and increasing our wage bill. Ultimately for us to stay within the rules we’ll have to spend carefully and likely move players on to make it work. |  | | |
| FFP restrictions on 10:15 - Dec 30 with 1358 views | Guthrum |
It's very difficult for anyone outside the finance department of the club to quantify accurately, as nobody else knows the figures for actual spending, income and, importantly, projections for the future (given it's a rolling three-year assessment).
I'd have thought there is a bit of leeway, given we haven't splurged on expensive purchases and attendances/merch sales have been phenomenal. But on the other hand we only had League One TV/Solidarity income last season to offset our relatively high spend for the division. Plus not having made substantial player sales. So will have made a significant loss.
I don't expect to see us paying many millions for players. That's not really the Ipswich way, either. Hidden gems (e.g. Hirst, Davis, Luongo) and developable quality are more Towns' style. |  |
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| FFP restrictions on 10:19 - Dec 30 with 1335 views | CopfordBlue |
| FFP restrictions on 10:13 - Dec 30 by ChampionsofInnsbruck |
It means we don’t have much room for huge changes without reducing our existing expenditure, so we won’t be spending £10-15 million on players and increasing our wage bill. Ultimately for us to stay within the rules we’ll have to spend carefully and likely move players on to make it work. |
Thanks. I know the purpose of them and what it means in general terms, just interested if anyone has any idea what it means for us as in what the “cap” is likely to be for us this year. For example Can we spend £5m on a striker and wages that a £5m striker would expect to receive? | |
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| FFP restrictions on 10:20 - Dec 30 with 1329 views | wrightsrightglove |
| FFP restrictions on 10:15 - Dec 30 by Guthrum |
It's very difficult for anyone outside the finance department of the club to quantify accurately, as nobody else knows the figures for actual spending, income and, importantly, projections for the future (given it's a rolling three-year assessment).
I'd have thought there is a bit of leeway, given we haven't splurged on expensive purchases and attendances/merch sales have been phenomenal. But on the other hand we only had League One TV/Solidarity income last season to offset our relatively high spend for the division. Plus not having made substantial player sales. So will have made a significant loss.
I don't expect to see us paying many millions for players. That's not really the Ipswich way, either. Hidden gems (e.g. Hirst, Davis, Luongo) and developable quality are more Towns' style. |
This.
I think we’ll stick to the model which has brought us success so far, and that’s exactly what we should be doing. Young, hungry, out of favour players like those we’ve already brought in. I know everyone is doing the same but we need to be trying to unearth the next Davis who McKenna can coach into one of the best players in the league.
By trusting the process, even if we don’t go up this season, we’ll be in a better position next year. | | | |
| FFP restrictions on 10:23 - Dec 30 with 1297 views | BloomBlue |
Hard to be precise I would think as its based around income / expenditure. Mark Ashton/ Owners will know as they will have the income and forecast figures as ffp encompasses 3 years.
I guess the key point is the 3 prem relegated teams have a nice wedge of parachute payments ie £70m to potentially spend on players without breaking ffp - we don't.
Ultimately if we want to spend big we have two options
1) sell a player like Davis for a large sum of money and use that
2) stick 2 fingers up to FFP and spend loads in the hope of achieving promotion, aka Derby.
The danger is our owners have plenty of cash but not sure they will want to spend the millions the prem relegated teams could spend with their parachute cash and hence the danger with 2) is we spend millions don't achieve promotion and fail ffp.
I'm sure we have some millions to spend, I'm no expert, but would think £3-5m max |  | | |
| FFP restrictions on 10:24 - Dec 30 with 1287 views | tractorboy1978 |
| FFP restrictions on 10:13 - Dec 30 by ChampionsofInnsbruck |
It means we don’t have much room for huge changes without reducing our existing expenditure, so we won’t be spending £10-15 million on players and increasing our wage bill. Ultimately for us to stay within the rules we’ll have to spend carefully and likely move players on to make it work. |
Remember that you amortise the transfer fee over the length of the contract. So if we signed a player for £4m on a 4 year deal, only £1m hits our P&L account for this financial year.
As Guthers says, ultimately nobody on here knows how much FFP headroom we have. Doubt we will be splashing silly money but expect we have more scope than some people think. | | | |
| FFP restrictions on 10:25 - Dec 30 with 1272 views | nodge_blue |
We are only allowed to lose about 15 mil a year I believe. Given that we lost money last year in that region?? I guess we would have to rely on increased championship revenue to give us more of a buffer. I cant see us having much more than 5 mil to spend. Or if we do then that would start to restrict what we can spend in the next window.
Im not sure how teams like Hull managed to spend money though in the summer.
It does make the gap to the parachute clubs massive. Such a difference to out relegation 20 years ago when the fire sale started and the club nearly collapsed. |  |
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| FFP restrictions on 10:35 - Dec 30 with 1197 views | DJR |
| FFP restrictions on 10:25 - Dec 30 by nodge_blue |
We are only allowed to lose about 15 mil a year I believe. Given that we lost money last year in that region?? I guess we would have to rely on increased championship revenue to give us more of a buffer. I cant see us having much more than 5 mil to spend. Or if we do then that would start to restrict what we can spend in the next window.
Im not sure how teams like Hull managed to spend money though in the summer.
It does make the gap to the parachute clubs massive. Such a difference to out relegation 20 years ago when the fire sale started and the club nearly collapsed. |
Yes it does seem to be about losses, over a three year period.
This is quite a good explainer, assuming the rules haven't changed since then.
https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-city/efl-financial-fair-play
[Post edited 30 Dec 2023 10:38]
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| FFP restrictions on 10:46 - Dec 30 with 1128 views | Wickets |
Think its almost impossible to say as it refers to how much we have to pay out on any deals/signings in the financial year . If i have got this wrong someone please correct me , I tend to think we could in theory make say a 5 million signing and only the amount we pay in this year counts ? |  | | |
| FFP restrictions on 10:48 - Dec 30 with 1104 views | Wickets |
| FFP restrictions on 10:24 - Dec 30 by tractorboy1978 |
Remember that you amortise the transfer fee over the length of the contract. So if we signed a player for £4m on a 4 year deal, only £1m hits our P&L account for this financial year.
As Guthers says, ultimately nobody on here knows how much FFP headroom we have. Doubt we will be splashing silly money but expect we have more scope than some people think. |
Thats what i understand . | | | |
| FFP restrictions on 10:55 - Dec 30 with 1064 views | Tonytown |
| FFP restrictions on 10:46 - Dec 30 by Wickets |
Think its almost impossible to say as it refers to how much we have to pay out on any deals/signings in the financial year . If i have got this wrong someone please correct me , I tend to think we could in theory make say a 5 million signing and only the amount we pay in this year counts ? |
This, if we sign someone for £5m on a 3 year contract, only 1/3 of the fee counts each season.
The club have to report by 1 March with estimated figures for the rest of the year.
The club can lose £39m over 3 years assuming that the owners put that money in (which they do).
I think we can afford to gamble a bit knowing that we have assets that can be sold if we don’t go up.
We should be able to include a play off match income in our figures I hope. | | | |
| FFP restrictions on 12:25 - Dec 30 with 908 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You should do a Google search ‘financial fair play championship’. That takes you to the EFL page on that very subject. It’s a bit vague - but it tells you the basics.
Then get a fag packet and a pencil. Income from player sales over last 3 years - probably spread over 5 yrs). Not a lot.
Income from supporters. Over egg it for simplicity 28,000 paying £500 a year. £14 million
Income from mugs buying overpriced shirts Town TV and other tat? Forget the numbers but say 50,000 shirts at 50% profit? Do they cost £60? £3million. I doubt Town TV adds anything but an overhead at this early stage. Plus sponsorship TV etc.
Total income? Well under £25 million perhaps
Gurner Ashton’s and O’Leary’s share of the pie and promotion bonus? Hmmm
Players salary? Comfortably above income perhaps. And don’t forget those farmed out on loan - some of whom are ‘signings’. They’ll be enjoying their promotion bonuses too.
Back room staff and hangars on´? Might be the highest in this division.
Taxes? Town haven’t had a great record of paying them in recent years
Losses in previous years. £12 million 3 years ago was it not? Last year eye-wateringly higher. This year an extra £12 million already found behind the sofa for known extra costs. Wiggle room …. Somewhere south of none.
Mirage just over the horizon? Premier league riches and the fast track to insolvency already trod by most of the division, including Ipswich. IF Town get there the paltry £10 and £12 million lost in division three takes on the significance of one failed signing.
Under normal circumstances Ashton and O’Leary would take a punt - but the key decision maker is Schwarzy in his bunker in Ohio. And I doubt many on here know how his investments on behalf of Arizona’s finest are doing. I doubt they realise that he’s been promised riches way beyond anything achievable in the US. Bear in mind Russian gangsters andChinese billionaires aren’t available to ‘invest’ at present. If Schwarzy has heard of Sheff U for example he may get be a little alarmed at how quickly Saudi and Nigerian billions can disappear when predators and fantasists hover over small clubs
So in answer to your question - it’s anyone’s guess Ignore FFP and the prize is to run at a loss in the prem for a few years while the crowd turn toxic - stay within in it and you can’t compete with clubs with more money or those ignoring FFP.
Town’s last two forays into the Prem have lasted 3 years…. Then 2 years…. Spot the pattern? | |
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| FFP restrictions on 12:43 - Dec 30 with 846 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| FFP restrictions on 12:25 - Dec 30 by ElephantintheRoom |
You should do a Google search ‘financial fair play championship’. That takes you to the EFL page on that very subject. It’s a bit vague - but it tells you the basics.
Then get a fag packet and a pencil. Income from player sales over last 3 years - probably spread over 5 yrs). Not a lot.
Income from supporters. Over egg it for simplicity 28,000 paying £500 a year. £14 million
Income from mugs buying overpriced shirts Town TV and other tat? Forget the numbers but say 50,000 shirts at 50% profit? Do they cost £60? £3million. I doubt Town TV adds anything but an overhead at this early stage. Plus sponsorship TV etc.
Total income? Well under £25 million perhaps
Gurner Ashton’s and O’Leary’s share of the pie and promotion bonus? Hmmm
Players salary? Comfortably above income perhaps. And don’t forget those farmed out on loan - some of whom are ‘signings’. They’ll be enjoying their promotion bonuses too.
Back room staff and hangars on´? Might be the highest in this division.
Taxes? Town haven’t had a great record of paying them in recent years
Losses in previous years. £12 million 3 years ago was it not? Last year eye-wateringly higher. This year an extra £12 million already found behind the sofa for known extra costs. Wiggle room …. Somewhere south of none.
Mirage just over the horizon? Premier league riches and the fast track to insolvency already trod by most of the division, including Ipswich. IF Town get there the paltry £10 and £12 million lost in division three takes on the significance of one failed signing.
Under normal circumstances Ashton and O’Leary would take a punt - but the key decision maker is Schwarzy in his bunker in Ohio. And I doubt many on here know how his investments on behalf of Arizona’s finest are doing. I doubt they realise that he’s been promised riches way beyond anything achievable in the US. Bear in mind Russian gangsters andChinese billionaires aren’t available to ‘invest’ at present. If Schwarzy has heard of Sheff U for example he may get be a little alarmed at how quickly Saudi and Nigerian billions can disappear when predators and fantasists hover over small clubs
So in answer to your question - it’s anyone’s guess Ignore FFP and the prize is to run at a loss in the prem for a few years while the crowd turn toxic - stay within in it and you can’t compete with clubs with more money or those ignoring FFP.
Town’s last two forays into the Prem have lasted 3 years…. Then 2 years…. Spot the pattern? |
Thank you for your thorough, well-researched figures, careful maths (e.g. 50% of £60 x 50,000 = £3M) and insight that is invaluable on this forum. Your purpose here is clear to all. |  |
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