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After a discussion on another thread covered whether Starmer is currently playing safe so as to maximise Labour's election chances, it was interesting to come across this video yesterday:
I'm not sure that the video needs any extra commentary from me, but it's interesting to see one of the heavier hitters is now making a similar suggestion concerning pre-election Starmer vs. a potential Prime Minister Starmer.
That's encouraging to hear. Which other heavy hitters are you referring to? I'd like to have a look at more of the same.
Personally, I've been close to despair with some of the messaging coming out of Labour over the last couple of years, particularly the £28bn 'cancellation' and the suicidal, short-termist apparent turning away from any hope of an economic, societal and environmental revolution.
Speaking to people who have marginal association with the party had reinforced the view that Starmer was 'Tory-light' and my views were beginning to become a bit fixed and hostile towards Labour and KS. The fact that people like Marr see hope or belief of a flexible, tactical and positive reality in KS reminds me that I too, must be flexible and positive in my attitude towards KS and Labour and the coming opportunity we have to dig the UK out of the sh!tp!t that the last 40 years or so have left us in.
Come On You Reds!
# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
That's encouraging to hear. Which other heavy hitters are you referring to? I'd like to have a look at more of the same.
Personally, I've been close to despair with some of the messaging coming out of Labour over the last couple of years, particularly the £28bn 'cancellation' and the suicidal, short-termist apparent turning away from any hope of an economic, societal and environmental revolution.
Speaking to people who have marginal association with the party had reinforced the view that Starmer was 'Tory-light' and my views were beginning to become a bit fixed and hostile towards Labour and KS. The fact that people like Marr see hope or belief of a flexible, tactical and positive reality in KS reminds me that I too, must be flexible and positive in my attitude towards KS and Labour and the coming opportunity we have to dig the UK out of the sh!tp!t that the last 40 years or so have left us in.
Come On You Reds!
Sorry - poor wording on my part! I've only come across Marr so far, so I've tweaked the text of my post.
One of the questions that this piece raises for me, is where has it come from? Is it a genuinely organic piece of work from Marr, or has someone suggested to the New Statesman, being somewhat left-leaning, that they might want to run something along these lines in order to provide a crumb of comfort to the likes of you and I who have concerns about Starmer's 'Tory-light' image.
Sorry - poor wording on my part! I've only come across Marr so far, so I've tweaked the text of my post.
One of the questions that this piece raises for me, is where has it come from? Is it a genuinely organic piece of work from Marr, or has someone suggested to the New Statesman, being somewhat left-leaning, that they might want to run something along these lines in order to provide a crumb of comfort to the likes of you and I who have concerns about Starmer's 'Tory-light' image.
My gut feel and hope is that Marr has too much journalistic integrity to present in that way if it's not something he genuinely believes.
# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
My gut feel and hope is that Marr has too much journalistic integrity to present in that way if it's not something he genuinely believes.
I feel the same as you.
Or, if it has been planted, that it's in a genuine sort of way. i.e. on the basis that those who currently need to be reassured by Tory-Light Starmer probably don't engage with the New Statesman, so the realities of PM Starmer can be safely hinted at in that particular forum, if that makes sense?
It is not clear to me, as a recently resigned member of the Labour Party, what the basis is for what Marr says, particularly as he strikes me as a centrist.
And for those behind the scenes now in charge of the Labour Party who are directing Starmer, I think the move rightward isn't just pragmatic but is also ideological.
I've mentioned before on here the Blairite adviser to Sadiq Khan a friend of mine knows. People like him (who now inhabit the Labour Party behind the scenes) were pretty supportive of people like Johnson (when mayor), Osborne and Cameron and hostile to Miliband (when leader), which doesn't augur well for any radical change.
As it is, I came across this comment BTL on the Guardian, which made me laugh because it is perhaps rather to close to the truth.
"I saw some recent video of a renowned journalist evidently having a psychotic breakdown, asserting that a Prime Minister Starmer would be as radical as Clement Atlee in office. Spoiler Alert: two demons for the good-hearted people to slay who want the Tories out and want a government that actually does something good. One is that, for many, Get The Tories Out will turn into Keep The Tories Out. President Clinton is a godhead for the Blarist claque and he believed in the perpetual campaign. The second is that Starmer, who previously viewed promises the way that we view tissue paper when we're suffering with a cold, will suddenly treat Labour's hollow 2024 manifesto as if it was hammered on tablets of stone by Charlton Heston and will claim that he can't deviate from it an inch out of deference to the voters. By that time, though, you'll have given up the only leverage you had, by voting Labour, and so will have to sit and take it."
It is not clear to me, as a recently resigned member of the Labour Party, what the basis is for what Marr says, particularly as he strikes me as a centrist.
And for those behind the scenes now in charge of the Labour Party who are directing Starmer, I think the move rightward isn't just pragmatic but is also ideological.
I've mentioned before on here the Blairite adviser to Sadiq Khan a friend of mine knows. People like him (who now inhabit the Labour Party behind the scenes) were pretty supportive of people like Johnson (when mayor), Osborne and Cameron and hostile to Miliband (when leader), which doesn't augur well for any radical change.
As it is, I came across this comment BTL on the Guardian, which made me laugh because it is perhaps rather to close to the truth.
"I saw some recent video of a renowned journalist evidently having a psychotic breakdown, asserting that a Prime Minister Starmer would be as radical as Clement Atlee in office. Spoiler Alert: two demons for the good-hearted people to slay who want the Tories out and want a government that actually does something good. One is that, for many, Get The Tories Out will turn into Keep The Tories Out. President Clinton is a godhead for the Blarist claque and he believed in the perpetual campaign. The second is that Starmer, who previously viewed promises the way that we view tissue paper when we're suffering with a cold, will suddenly treat Labour's hollow 2024 manifesto as if it was hammered on tablets of stone by Charlton Heston and will claim that he can't deviate from it an inch out of deference to the voters. By that time, though, you'll have given up the only leverage you had, by voting Labour, and so will have to sit and take it."
[Post edited 12 Feb 19:58]
Josh Simons from Labour Together has been in the media a lot recently and is one of those now behind the scenes in the Labour Party that I was highlighting.
But just look his answer to the small boats question, and his contempt for Scotland.
I might add that when I worked in the Cabinet Office when Blair was in power, I came across bright sparks in No.10, often just out of Oxbridge, who were special advisers driving policy, even though they had no experience of the world and knew sod all.
Josh Simons, although slightly older, strikes me as just this sort of person. And they are so far removed from what the Labour Party used to be about at least before Blair, that it's frightening.
I’m a bit less confident than Marr on this, and indeed the 28b number has already been walked back but I understand where he is coming from. Whether or not Starmer will do it remains to be seen but I don’t see that any Labour leader that is serious about becoming pm has any option but to toe the line that he is.
Tustin Street, the sun and the mail have an outsized influence on the way the uk populace vote so he has to make sure that he doesn’t alienate their core cohort before he gets in. It will only be once he’s in and steadied the ship by putting serious people in roles, rather than this current lot, that he is going to be able to begin to move forward with any kind of policies that Murdoch or Rothermere don’t like. They will already have an eye on a second term and that won’t come if they give the opportunity for the right wing press to sling mud before the public can see the benefit of their more moderate policies first.
The strategy has to be get elected first, show that you are serious whilst getting some wins with water companies, trading relations with the eu and movement rights, follow up with house building, then he can get going with the stuff that is less business friendly and more pro people.
I’m a bit less confident than Marr on this, and indeed the 28b number has already been walked back but I understand where he is coming from. Whether or not Starmer will do it remains to be seen but I don’t see that any Labour leader that is serious about becoming pm has any option but to toe the line that he is.
Tustin Street, the sun and the mail have an outsized influence on the way the uk populace vote so he has to make sure that he doesn’t alienate their core cohort before he gets in. It will only be once he’s in and steadied the ship by putting serious people in roles, rather than this current lot, that he is going to be able to begin to move forward with any kind of policies that Murdoch or Rothermere don’t like. They will already have an eye on a second term and that won’t come if they give the opportunity for the right wing press to sling mud before the public can see the benefit of their more moderate policies first.
The strategy has to be get elected first, show that you are serious whilst getting some wins with water companies, trading relations with the eu and movement rights, follow up with house building, then he can get going with the stuff that is less business friendly and more pro people.
"Until last week’s U-turn on its pledge to spend £28bn on greening the economy, Labour had a coherent story to tell on the economy. It was not an especially exciting story but it made sense.
The narrative went like this. Since coming to power in 2010, the Tories have made a right mess of things. Misguided austerity has resulted in weak growth and flatlining living standards. Public services have been starved of money and too little has been done to safeguard the future of the planet. Failure on such a comprehensive scale requires a different approach.
After last week’s emasculation of its green prosperity plan, the storyline has changed. It now reads: the Tories have left Britain in a parlous state but if you vote for us little will change. We are continuity Conservatism.
Previously, Labour was going into the election offering a mild form of green Keynesianism as the alternative to stagnation. It will now be appealing to voters on the basis that it can run the status quo more competently than the current lot."
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