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Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 21:55 - Feb 7 by Nthsuffolkblue
I thought they announced this yesterday - or was it simply reported that they were going to?
They've hinted at dropping it on at least a half dozen occasions but probably thought that Sunak will be getting all the headlines so they can quietly slip this out.
I wonder if Ed Miliband will resign? It's his baby.
Depends what you mean by electorally sensible really. Might move the dial 1-2% here or there, but the whole "first massive economic growth, then the state might have the money to fix infrastructure or rebuild run-down public services (or inadequately respond to probably the greatest challenge in humanity's history)" formulation is delusional/arse-about-face. If they mean it, they'll likely be a one-term government (because everything will continue getting worse). If they don't mean it, they'll likely be a one-term government (because they'll be doing a bunch of stuff no one gave them a mandate for).
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:07 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue
They've hinted at dropping it on at least a half dozen occasions but probably thought that Sunak will be getting all the headlines so they can quietly slip this out.
I wonder if Ed Miliband will resign? It's his baby.
I doubt Sunak will still be getting the headlines tomorrow when they are due to announce it.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:09 - Feb 7 by jayessess
Depends what you mean by electorally sensible really. Might move the dial 1-2% here or there, but the whole "first massive economic growth, then the state might have the money to fix infrastructure or rebuild run-down public services (or inadequately respond to probably the greatest challenge in humanity's history)" formulation is delusional/arse-about-face. If they mean it, they'll likely be a one-term government (because everything will continue getting worse). If they don't mean it, they'll likely be a one-term government (because they'll be doing a bunch of stuff no one gave them a mandate for).
[Post edited 7 Feb 2024 22:12]
Well, it’s the lesser of two evils as I see it.
They’ll lose on the left, for seemingly abandoning their principles. And they’ll lose on the right, as it’s another U-turn to add to the list, plus one of their own really distinct policies gone.
But I think that’s outweighed by how much they would’ve lost with the “they’re going to spend £28bn a year” attack line, right in the middle of an economy election. £28bn sounds like a lot when you’re struggling to pay your mortgage.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:15 - Feb 7 by Chris_ITFC
Well, it’s the lesser of two evils as I see it.
They’ll lose on the left, for seemingly abandoning their principles. And they’ll lose on the right, as it’s another U-turn to add to the list, plus one of their own really distinct policies gone.
But I think that’s outweighed by how much they would’ve lost with the “they’re going to spend £28bn a year” attack line, right in the middle of an economy election. £28bn sounds like a lot when you’re struggling to pay your mortgage.
And this is the problem. The media spin all public spending as unaffordable and no party goes, "look this will cost 1 p on income tax/closing the tax loopholes for the rich, etc, but you will gain ..." Hence why we have underfunded public services falling to pieces and the two main parties vying for how much further they will cut them.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:14 - Feb 7 by Nthsuffolkblue
I doubt Sunak will still be getting the headlines tomorrow when they are due to announce it.
Front pages are already coming out. 2 so far and even the Guardian has gone big on Sunak and only a small piece on Stamer's u-turn. Perfect timing by Starmer.
If you are going to invest in various green initiatives, you don’t start off by coming up with a figure and saying “we are going to spend this”. For lots of reasons. Firstly people only see the cost, not the benefits. But secondly the goal isn’t (or shouldn’t be) to spend lots of money. It should be to reduce CO2 emissions to a certain level, or to plant so many new trees, or to insulate so many houses, or to subsidise green electricity, or to build some nuclear power stations. Whatever.
Choose some of those, and talk about those. Don’t talk about the cost.
Not least because whoever you ask to quote for a new nuclear power plant will start off at £28bn
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Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:24 - Feb 7 with 4388 views
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:21 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue
Front pages are already coming out. 2 so far and even the Guardian has gone big on Sunak and only a small piece on Stamer's u-turn. Perfect timing by Starmer.
I mean tomorrow's news ... which is the following day's print media if you still follow that.
EDIT: Plus the Guardian has it on the front page with analysis on inside pages even on the basis of the anticipated announcement.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:15 - Feb 7 by Chris_ITFC
Well, it’s the lesser of two evils as I see it.
They’ll lose on the left, for seemingly abandoning their principles. And they’ll lose on the right, as it’s another U-turn to add to the list, plus one of their own really distinct policies gone.
But I think that’s outweighed by how much they would’ve lost with the “they’re going to spend £28bn a year” attack line, right in the middle of an economy election. £28bn sounds like a lot when you’re struggling to pay your mortgage.
In terms of Election 2024, I'm sure it'll be perfectly fine, if a little over-cautious given the actual situation politically. There's negligible risk that anything significant emerges to bleed votes to their left and they'd lose most of those votes in places they can stand to lose them anyway.
I just don't think there's a lot of road for a Centrist government that decides in advance that they won't be investing in anything unless there's some improbable economic boom.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:18 - Feb 7 by Nthsuffolkblue
And this is the problem. The media spin all public spending as unaffordable and no party goes, "look this will cost 1 p on income tax/closing the tax loopholes for the rich, etc, but you will gain ..." Hence why we have underfunded public services falling to pieces and the two main parties vying for how much further they will cut them.
Yeah, particularly at the moment. The ming vase is in tact though.
It’s boiling down to “this lot from the last 14 years” against just “plain this lot”, with that being the only real dividing line.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:15 - Feb 7 by Chris_ITFC
Well, it’s the lesser of two evils as I see it.
They’ll lose on the left, for seemingly abandoning their principles. And they’ll lose on the right, as it’s another U-turn to add to the list, plus one of their own really distinct policies gone.
But I think that’s outweighed by how much they would’ve lost with the “they’re going to spend £28bn a year” attack line, right in the middle of an economy election. £28bn sounds like a lot when you’re struggling to pay your mortgage.
The public gets what the public wants......
......let me know when it's all over.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:18 - Feb 7 by Nthsuffolkblue
And this is the problem. The media spin all public spending as unaffordable and no party goes, "look this will cost 1 p on income tax/closing the tax loopholes for the rich, etc, but you will gain ..." Hence why we have underfunded public services falling to pieces and the two main parties vying for how much further they will cut them.
I tried explaining this concept to people in 2010, when austerity came in. At the time, for every £1 the government invested in science, the county got £1.70 back. Yet the Tory government cut funding to science. Absolutely bonkers.
In this particular case, it just helps confirm Labour are Tory light, and that's fu*king depressing.
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Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:52 - Feb 7 with 4238 views
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 22:22 - Feb 7 by DarkBrandon
It was a terrible, if well-meaning, policy.
If you are going to invest in various green initiatives, you don’t start off by coming up with a figure and saying “we are going to spend this”. For lots of reasons. Firstly people only see the cost, not the benefits. But secondly the goal isn’t (or shouldn’t be) to spend lots of money. It should be to reduce CO2 emissions to a certain level, or to plant so many new trees, or to insulate so many houses, or to subsidise green electricity, or to build some nuclear power stations. Whatever.
Choose some of those, and talk about those. Don’t talk about the cost.
Not least because whoever you ask to quote for a new nuclear power plant will start off at £28bn
Or, if you MUST use numbers, say something like 'we will invest in jobs and training for these industries and subsidise university and college courses for people taking jobs in these industries'.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 21:55 - Feb 7 by Nthsuffolkblue
I thought they announced this yesterday - or was it simply reported that they were going to?
It’s being reported that they were going to. And this is more of the same, as the announcement isn’t expected until tomorrow.
It should be an absolute disaster for them. They’re dropping their pledge, but not really as they’re keeping a lot of it, unless they don’t. And they won’t be committing to £28BN investment a year unless they do, and if they don’t they still might spend a lot. Er, what?
It’s a good job the Tories are utterly shoite and have broken everything they’ve touched, otherwise Labour would have no chance.
I tried explaining this concept to people in 2010, when austerity came in. At the time, for every £1 the government invested in science, the county got £1.70 back. Yet the Tory government cut funding to science. Absolutely bonkers.
In this particular case, it just helps confirm Labour are Tory light, and that's fu*king depressing.
The Tories only ever look at the costs side of the balance sheet, never the income. It was the same with Brexit (not all Tories in that example, granted). I don’t know why when they claim to be the party of financial responsibility. That couldn’t be further from the truth.
Mainly comes down to the fact there won't be enough spare money available to finance it.
Framing the economic decisions made by nation states in this way (via Maggie's old canard about the housewife with her weekly budget) is the major reason why everything's such a mess in this country.
We've put ourselves in a cycle where low public investment means infrastructure and public services are so poor they're an impediment to economic growth. We then decide we need to hold down public investment because of inadequate economic growth and so on. It's a recipe for permanent economic stagnation.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 00:32 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue
It’s being reported that they were going to. And this is more of the same, as the announcement isn’t expected until tomorrow.
It should be an absolute disaster for them. They’re dropping their pledge, but not really as they’re keeping a lot of it, unless they don’t. And they won’t be committing to £28BN investment a year unless they do, and if they don’t they still might spend a lot. Er, what?
It’s a good job the Tories are utterly shoite and have broken everything they’ve touched, otherwise Labour would have no chance.
On insulation... 'Labour officials confirmed on Wednesday the party would not spend the full £6bn previously promised for home insulation until later in the parliament, and might not at all if it were to result in rising levels of government debt.'
The only guarantee is that insulation related scam phone calls will skyrocket.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
On insulation... 'Labour officials confirmed on Wednesday the party would not spend the full £6bn previously promised for home insulation until later in the parliament, and might not at all if it were to result in rising levels of government debt.'
The only guarantee is that insulation related scam phone calls will skyrocket.
Cool, cool, not like any of this climate stuff is time sensitive, I'm sure geo-physics will wait patiently until we've got our finances in order.
Labour’s £28bn U-Turn on 07:38 - Feb 8 by jayessess
Framing the economic decisions made by nation states in this way (via Maggie's old canard about the housewife with her weekly budget) is the major reason why everything's such a mess in this country.
We've put ourselves in a cycle where low public investment means infrastructure and public services are so poor they're an impediment to economic growth. We then decide we need to hold down public investment because of inadequate economic growth and so on. It's a recipe for permanent economic stagnation.
Where I have a degree of sympathy here is that the government set the fiscal rules* and there is an element of trying to avoid making an easy target for the tame media.
However, there is a an incredibly fine line between that and a complete lack of ambition and, once in government, not being the Tories isn't going to be enough given the state that the country has been left in.
*I agree that fiscal rules that prevent investment in infrastructure are counter-productive for growth and the well-being of the country.
Where I have a degree of sympathy here is that the government set the fiscal rules* and there is an element of trying to avoid making an easy target for the tame media.
However, there is a an incredibly fine line between that and a complete lack of ambition and, once in government, not being the Tories isn't going to be enough given the state that the country has been left in.
*I agree that fiscal rules that prevent investment in infrastructure are counter-productive for growth and the well-being of the country.
I guess the reality is we are needing to trust that when they get in Govt they are more ambitious than they appear to be outside Govt - and that these schemes will be enacted even if not explicitly stated in the manifesto.
The problem is with the 'fiscal rules' and 'spending plans' is that the Tories know they are going to lose so are just making them impossible to actually govern with come 2025 with their supposed spending plans.
Sadly, the attack line of "can't trust Labour with the economy" still lands with the voters they need to attract, and despite the Conservatives no longer being Conservative, and having made an absolute hash of everything including the economy they are still seen as more trusted with it
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