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Some culture that protects/hides scum like this - but am sure the usual apologists will be along to tell us it's only "the odd bad apple" whilst conveniently forgetting the 100s of his colleagues who literally worked with, laughed with and joked with "The rapist" as we was known.
He even shared "extreme porn" with his police colleagues - but we all know none of them will get fired - it's not like we expect the police to report such things - one suspects because it's a common practice - or just they don't care.
The Met failings laid bare here on 11:48 - Feb 29 by Keno
Its worrying how long ago this was, but it seems the met just got worse
I think policing evidently has a significant problem with predatory men who target vulnerable women. What better career for a sexual predator? Access to vulnerable women and a uniform that scares off people from reporting "They won't believe you, I'm a police officer"
The misogynist culture is well established clearly, but throw in the utter ineptness of the systems that are supposed to hold them to account (To catch a copper showed just how poor the systems are) and scum like Couzens and Carrick go undetected for years.
And the "odd bad apple" brigade imho are nothing more than enablers. Until you actually recognise you have a major cultural and systemic problem then you won't change it.
Can you imagine a spokesman saying "But the Catholic church is made of good people and I hate it when people highlight the peadophiles who slip through, every organisation has bad apples" .
Me neither - yet that is exactly the cr*p we'll hear today and have heard because the police have groupies galore happy to push the "bad apple" nonsense at every opportunity. Far easier to repeat that than reflect on the nature of an organisation that harbours vermin like Couzens rather than routes them out.
The Met failings laid bare here on 12:02 - Feb 29 by bluelagos
I think policing evidently has a significant problem with predatory men who target vulnerable women. What better career for a sexual predator? Access to vulnerable women and a uniform that scares off people from reporting "They won't believe you, I'm a police officer"
The misogynist culture is well established clearly, but throw in the utter ineptness of the systems that are supposed to hold them to account (To catch a copper showed just how poor the systems are) and scum like Couzens and Carrick go undetected for years.
And the "odd bad apple" brigade imho are nothing more than enablers. Until you actually recognise you have a major cultural and systemic problem then you won't change it.
Can you imagine a spokesman saying "But the Catholic church is made of good people and I hate it when people highlight the peadophiles who slip through, every organisation has bad apples" .
Me neither - yet that is exactly the cr*p we'll hear today and have heard because the police have groupies galore happy to push the "bad apple" nonsense at every opportunity. Far easier to repeat that than reflect on the nature of an organisation that harbours vermin like Couzens rather than routes them out.
[Post edited 29 Feb 12:15]
One problem is that the police are struggling to recruit, presumably because it's now seen as a fairly unattractive job, so they have had to lower their selection criteria. Therefore, they are likely to be storing up more bad apples. The police will say that the solution is to pay them more, but I doubt that will play very well with the public right now, when the esteem of the police has fallen.
The Met failings laid bare here on 12:08 - Feb 29 by Radlett_blue
One problem is that the police are struggling to recruit, presumably because it's now seen as a fairly unattractive job, so they have had to lower their selection criteria. Therefore, they are likely to be storing up more bad apples. The police will say that the solution is to pay them more, but I doubt that will play very well with the public right now, when the esteem of the police has fallen.
Think that's a red herring largely pushed by the Police Fed who are part of the problem imho. Even if we had the money (and political will) to pay coppers more, not sure why that suddenly means a sexual predator is less likely to be attracted to policing as a career.
And recruitment/vetting will never root out every wrongun. If you are a copper with a good record you get through - though it would be good if they could actually reject anyone with allegations against them.
I think the issue is that we rightly apply a criminal standard to convicting people but in the case of sex offences the rate of convictions is so low. I'd have a system where unproven allegations tot up. If 3 allegations are made (and unproven) you're out.
I'd apply the same to teachers and to scout leaders, anyone in a position of trust with access to vulnerable women or kids that attracts dubious people. If we insist on criminal convictions before we get rid then we enable predators to carry on.
Usual apologists? Would I be one of those if I pointed out there are 46,000 Met police officers of whom most go to work everyday and do a good job of keeping our streets safe the best they can whilst putting themselves in danger. There are too many bad apples at the moment as you rightly point out but let's not take away the fact that the majority do a good job in challenging circumstances.
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The Met failings laid bare here on 13:03 - Feb 29 with 1286 views
The Met failings laid bare here on 12:47 - Feb 29 by gtsb1966
Usual apologists? Would I be one of those if I pointed out there are 46,000 Met police officers of whom most go to work everyday and do a good job of keeping our streets safe the best they can whilst putting themselves in danger. There are too many bad apples at the moment as you rightly point out but let's not take away the fact that the majority do a good job in challenging circumstances.
If you think 46k are doing a good job, then I feel you are rather mistaken.
Every one of Couzens colleagues, who failed to report his behaviour is not doing a good job.
Every office involved in his recruitment and management, was not doing a good job.
Every officer who failed to act on the 8 occasions allegations were made against him failed to do a good job.
Every officer who he shared extreme porn with and didn't report him, is not doing a good job.
If your only response to what we have learned today is to highlight those who are doing a good job - without recognising the cultural and systemic failings - then yep you are very much an apologist in my view. Keeping silent is not what the police needs - it needs people within policing to challenge it's corrupt culture.
You're not alone, but that's my honest opinion IF that's your only response to today's news. Appreciate that won't be nice to hear - but tbh - I think the Met reforming is far far more important than the sensibilities of you or anyone else.
Edit - I don't want to be overly harsh - but the real point is that a good apple who doesn't take action against the bad apple - really isn't a good apple. They are complicit in their silence. And that is what the majority of police consistently do.
The Met failings laid bare here on 13:03 - Feb 29 by bluelagos
If you think 46k are doing a good job, then I feel you are rather mistaken.
Every one of Couzens colleagues, who failed to report his behaviour is not doing a good job.
Every office involved in his recruitment and management, was not doing a good job.
Every officer who failed to act on the 8 occasions allegations were made against him failed to do a good job.
Every officer who he shared extreme porn with and didn't report him, is not doing a good job.
If your only response to what we have learned today is to highlight those who are doing a good job - without recognising the cultural and systemic failings - then yep you are very much an apologist in my view. Keeping silent is not what the police needs - it needs people within policing to challenge it's corrupt culture.
You're not alone, but that's my honest opinion IF that's your only response to today's news. Appreciate that won't be nice to hear - but tbh - I think the Met reforming is far far more important than the sensibilities of you or anyone else.
Edit - I don't want to be overly harsh - but the real point is that a good apple who doesn't take action against the bad apple - really isn't a good apple. They are complicit in their silence. And that is what the majority of police consistently do.
[Post edited 29 Feb 13:07]
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
The Met failings laid bare here on 12:47 - Feb 29 by gtsb1966
Usual apologists? Would I be one of those if I pointed out there are 46,000 Met police officers of whom most go to work everyday and do a good job of keeping our streets safe the best they can whilst putting themselves in danger. There are too many bad apples at the moment as you rightly point out but let's not take away the fact that the majority do a good job in challenging circumstances.
Remind us; what did the bad apples do to the bunch? As for doing a good job, 93% of crimes go unsolved. So nope they aren’t even doing that.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
The Met failings laid bare here on 13:03 - Feb 29 by bluelagos
If you think 46k are doing a good job, then I feel you are rather mistaken.
Every one of Couzens colleagues, who failed to report his behaviour is not doing a good job.
Every office involved in his recruitment and management, was not doing a good job.
Every officer who failed to act on the 8 occasions allegations were made against him failed to do a good job.
Every officer who he shared extreme porn with and didn't report him, is not doing a good job.
If your only response to what we have learned today is to highlight those who are doing a good job - without recognising the cultural and systemic failings - then yep you are very much an apologist in my view. Keeping silent is not what the police needs - it needs people within policing to challenge it's corrupt culture.
You're not alone, but that's my honest opinion IF that's your only response to today's news. Appreciate that won't be nice to hear - but tbh - I think the Met reforming is far far more important than the sensibilities of you or anyone else.
Edit - I don't want to be overly harsh - but the real point is that a good apple who doesn't take action against the bad apple - really isn't a good apple. They are complicit in their silence. And that is what the majority of police consistently do.
[Post edited 29 Feb 13:07]
The complexities of life
I have some very limited insight into the Met;
a cousin served in the Met and transferred to Kent because he was disgusted at the corruption and lack of leadership to sort it out
My youngest offspring was a police cadet and is now a cadet leader, so we've had close contact with them thru that
One of my drivers will shortly be joining Met after years of being a special
From all of these sources I have gleaned a picture, it may well be distorted, but a picture. With regards to the majority of the uniformed, many tend to reflect their dominant sgt. (In my mind like Platoon; Defoe v Berenger)
Many ranking officers are politicians; all smiles, handshakes and no substance
Those that try to effect change will experience a ghosted code zero.
With regards to patterns of behaviour; some in retrospect are clear signs of hiding in plain sight, but not recognised as anything of than "banter" at the time. Whilst people may know about people's behaviours, many fail to actually connect the dots to reality.
I used to work as part of investigation team, and even though we were investigating certain organisations, senior management took time to take serious the fact we were infiltrated, twice, by the organisation we were investigating. It's like people not believing that nice Dr. Shipman was a wrong un.
What hope do any of us have of the Met being sorted when our own PM is "inadvertently" corrupt?
The Met failings laid bare here on 14:54 - Feb 29 by Pendejo
The complexities of life
I have some very limited insight into the Met;
a cousin served in the Met and transferred to Kent because he was disgusted at the corruption and lack of leadership to sort it out
My youngest offspring was a police cadet and is now a cadet leader, so we've had close contact with them thru that
One of my drivers will shortly be joining Met after years of being a special
From all of these sources I have gleaned a picture, it may well be distorted, but a picture. With regards to the majority of the uniformed, many tend to reflect their dominant sgt. (In my mind like Platoon; Defoe v Berenger)
Many ranking officers are politicians; all smiles, handshakes and no substance
Those that try to effect change will experience a ghosted code zero.
With regards to patterns of behaviour; some in retrospect are clear signs of hiding in plain sight, but not recognised as anything of than "banter" at the time. Whilst people may know about people's behaviours, many fail to actually connect the dots to reality.
I used to work as part of investigation team, and even though we were investigating certain organisations, senior management took time to take serious the fact we were infiltrated, twice, by the organisation we were investigating. It's like people not believing that nice Dr. Shipman was a wrong un.
What hope do any of us have of the Met being sorted when our own PM is "inadvertently" corrupt?
[Post edited 29 Feb 14:58]
I just despair when it comes to the Met. I think their cultures (the blue code) is so ingrained I can't see them changing. Far better to disband and try and start again as the PSNI did which had deep cultural problems based in their case around sectarianism.
Whistle blowing needs to be encouraged and ultimately rewarded - at present any copper brave enough to speak out gets the cold shoulder from their colleagues. That has to change or people won't ever be brave and highlight the wronguns.
See also the NHS and the doctor who spoke out about Letby and his concerns. He was brave and NHS management leaned on him to apologise to her ffs.
So I can see is not solely a police issue, but they do seem to excel in not spotting the criminals next to the them.
The Met failings laid bare here on 15:08 - Feb 29 by bluelagos
I just despair when it comes to the Met. I think their cultures (the blue code) is so ingrained I can't see them changing. Far better to disband and try and start again as the PSNI did which had deep cultural problems based in their case around sectarianism.
Whistle blowing needs to be encouraged and ultimately rewarded - at present any copper brave enough to speak out gets the cold shoulder from their colleagues. That has to change or people won't ever be brave and highlight the wronguns.
See also the NHS and the doctor who spoke out about Letby and his concerns. He was brave and NHS management leaned on him to apologise to her ffs.
So I can see is not solely a police issue, but they do seem to excel in not spotting the criminals next to the them.
In some hospitals, not just the UK, there is a culture of silence if a mistake happens. Matthew Syed wrote about this in his excellent book "black box thinking", which uses aviation as a great examp[le of an industry which pools its information & holds propery inquiries, without recrimination, after disasters. Syed noted a huge reduction in the level of problems in hospitals which adopted this sort of policy, as against those which closed ranks & attempted to cover their tracks.
The Met failings laid bare here on 15:47 - Feb 29 by Radlett_blue
In some hospitals, not just the UK, there is a culture of silence if a mistake happens. Matthew Syed wrote about this in his excellent book "black box thinking", which uses aviation as a great examp[le of an industry which pools its information & holds propery inquiries, without recrimination, after disasters. Syed noted a huge reduction in the level of problems in hospitals which adopted this sort of policy, as against those which closed ranks & attempted to cover their tracks.
Sounds interesting. I’ll try and get a copy of it.
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The Met failings laid bare here on 06:59 - Mar 1 with 829 views
The Met failings laid bare here on 12:47 - Feb 29 by gtsb1966
Usual apologists? Would I be one of those if I pointed out there are 46,000 Met police officers of whom most go to work everyday and do a good job of keeping our streets safe the best they can whilst putting themselves in danger. There are too many bad apples at the moment as you rightly point out but let's not take away the fact that the majority do a good job in challenging circumstances.
Whilst I do tend to agree with this in the main, I am reminded of the case last year where 2 officers were dismissed for gross misconduct over the racially agravated stop and search of athlete Bianca Williams and her husband. Over £120k was raised to support the two ex PCs. Much of this was raised by colleagues. £120k raised by colleagues to support two officers sacked for a racially agravated offence? Looking after their own no?
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