| US election 09:28 - Nov 4 with 10501 views | _clive_baker_ |
Tempted to stay up and watch it tomorrow as I do enjoy the drama. I've had a look at the betting odds just out of interest, seems like Harris is nosing ahead? |  | | |  |
| US election on 20:07 - Nov 4 with 1729 views | J2BLUE |
| US election on 18:47 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
I'm not sure you could point at either side and say that they will destroy the country, it is going to be 4 more years of Trump or 4 more years of Biden with a slight difference.
You sanely can't look at the 4 years of Trump previously and come to the conclusion that he will destroy the country or turn it into Russia. He will certainly look to be involved in less wars.
The thing is that the electorate have seen evidence that Trump in office is not a dictatorship and actually the economy was pretty good, so a lot of voters are heading into the election thinking that it's a rude and obnoxious man who will be good for them and their families versus a seemingly incompetent woman who will be more of the same of the failures of Biden. |
Why do you say she is seemingly incompetent? Based on what? |  |
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| US election on 20:08 - Nov 4 with 1719 views | Europablue |
| US election on 19:36 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
I take issue with a number of points you've made but I think the biggest problem is that you're attempting to benchmark future policies based on past actions when a lot has happened since Trump's last term and he's looking more unstable by the hour.
Just today he's voiced the opinion that he would consider implementing a ban on vaccines proposed by RFK Jr as well as the removal of fluoride from the water supply, something RFK Jr has labelled as "industrial waste" [1].
These are horrible and dangerous thoughts and ideas and there is no equivalence on the democrat side for this type of unscientific thinking. To claim both sides can do equal damage is a false equivalence with very little substance behind it.
A study in the Lancet found that vaccines have saved 154m lives over the last 50 years (or 6 lives every minute) and that 101m of those lives were infants [2].
If we look at the US alone, vaccines have saved 1.1m lives and 508m hospitalisations over the last 30 years. If you're more concerned with the economic costs which seems to be a main theme then the study found that 590bn USD was saved in medical costs and 2.7trn USD in societal costs.
You're saying Trump's economic credentials are superior to the democrats but how can someone consider a policy which negates that amount of cost savings as well as saves lives? It doesn't seem that economically savvy to me.
As with nearly everything Trump says, if you take the time to look beneath the rhetoric you usually end up with either a lie or a horrible policy. It's been fairly clear that Trump supporting posters have been keen to steer any debates away from actual policies and towards feelings, narratives and false equivalence attacks on the democrats.
SB
[1]. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/04/election-trump-rfk-jr-vaccines-f
[2]. https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2024/expert-comment-vaccines-have-saved-
[3]. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240812/Childhood-vaccinations-save-trillions |
You just posted an opinion piece from the Guardian . The only people who think that Trump is "more unstable by the hour" are his detractors. The unfortunate thing is that society has diverged so much that information is so low quality or it is a major effort to cut through the nonsense.
I think you should listen to what RFK Jr has said. I've watched a few of his interviews and saw him on Rogan. The things that I took was that he was essentially a skeptic on how vaccines are tested and how companies make profits rather than doubting the efficacy of vaccines. The makers of the COVID vaccines were given carte blanche and allowed to get away with taking no liability or responsibility for inevitable vaccine-induced injuries. Find me a direct quote of him saying that vaccines in general don't work or don't help. Then I might share your concerns. There is no doubt that vaccines are injurious to some people. There are all sorts of medical scandals based on the profit incentive and the paying off officials and the marginalization of dissenting voices.
"As with nearly everything Trump says, if you take the time to look beneath the rhetoric you usually end up with either a lie or a horrible policy." Give me three specific examples if it is that common.
"It's been fairly clear that Trump supporting posters have been keen to steer any debates away from actual policies and towards feelings, narratives and false equivalence attacks on the democrats." this is just you personal feelings though isn't it?
There are a lot of areas that Democrats are not scientific and go with their feelings on issues. Just look into the gender stuff to start with.
I don't understand why people have blind trust for political parties, they are self-serving and we have to hold them to account. Don't trust the Democrats much more than you trust the Republicans. |  | | |
| US election on 20:11 - Nov 4 with 1692 views | Europablue |
| US election on 20:07 - Nov 4 by J2BLUE |
Why do you say she is seemingly incompetent? Based on what? |
Based on the fact that she was humiliated in the primaries when she ran. She just inherited he power because Biden clearly wasn't capable. If you listen to her talk for an extended time she will trip over herself and talk nonsense. She doesn't encourage confidence. | | | |
| US election on 20:14 - Nov 4 with 1683 views | ipswichoracle |
| US election on 19:51 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
I was totally confident that two concurrent terms would keep the world fairly peaceful. Trump is actually very good at making deals and winning. His main motivation is his ego and that gets stroked the most by adulation and people actually thinking that he did a good job. The only concern I have about Trump in terms of foreign policy is whether he will push to get out of wars that will ultimately be damaging. He doesn't seem to care about the destruction left behind as long as his side wins, so maybe it will be great for America, but not so great for Europe.
A lot of the measures against climate change are just ways of controlling people or feeling good about ourselves. We continue to follow ridiculous policies like stopping oil drilling in the North Sea so that we are carbon neutral only to import energy that we decide counts for the country exporting and not us.
I think he'll surround himself with constructive people who serve his goals and still challenge him rather than people who try to hold power over him.
He said that on the first day after he is elected he will be a dictator and it was a joke because when you are elected to office you get to dictate the agenda.
Don't just assume the worst of the people you dislike.
Anyway, if he wins I hope I am more right, and it actually doesn't turn out to be a disaster. |
I’m sorry, you think that the dude who couldn’t deliver a healthcare plan for America when republicans had control of both the senate and the house is good at making deals? No. |  | | |
| US election on 20:19 - Nov 4 with 1648 views | StokieBlue |
| US election on 20:08 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
You just posted an opinion piece from the Guardian . The only people who think that Trump is "more unstable by the hour" are his detractors. The unfortunate thing is that society has diverged so much that information is so low quality or it is a major effort to cut through the nonsense.
I think you should listen to what RFK Jr has said. I've watched a few of his interviews and saw him on Rogan. The things that I took was that he was essentially a skeptic on how vaccines are tested and how companies make profits rather than doubting the efficacy of vaccines. The makers of the COVID vaccines were given carte blanche and allowed to get away with taking no liability or responsibility for inevitable vaccine-induced injuries. Find me a direct quote of him saying that vaccines in general don't work or don't help. Then I might share your concerns. There is no doubt that vaccines are injurious to some people. There are all sorts of medical scandals based on the profit incentive and the paying off officials and the marginalization of dissenting voices.
"As with nearly everything Trump says, if you take the time to look beneath the rhetoric you usually end up with either a lie or a horrible policy." Give me three specific examples if it is that common.
"It's been fairly clear that Trump supporting posters have been keen to steer any debates away from actual policies and towards feelings, narratives and false equivalence attacks on the democrats." this is just you personal feelings though isn't it?
There are a lot of areas that Democrats are not scientific and go with their feelings on issues. Just look into the gender stuff to start with.
I don't understand why people have blind trust for political parties, they are self-serving and we have to hold them to account. Don't trust the Democrats much more than you trust the Republicans. |
I'll respond to your whole post when I'm home but your first sentence is a lie. It's not an opinion piece, it's a stated policy of RFK Jr which Trump has said he is considering.
It's facts not opinion. It's not a great start when your first sentence is a lie.
The entire section you've posted about RFK Jr is incorrect. You clearly know very little about his history or views past an interview on Rogan yet you've doubled down.
I've posted about RFK Jr views a fews days ago with linked sources, why don't you go and look and hopefully you'll then respond with a more accurate response. A few tidbits would be that he's a long time chairman of an anti-vaccine charity and he wants MMR banned as he still believes it causes autism. It's nothing to do with COVID vaccines so I'm not sure why you based everything on that.
For someone who claims not to support Trump you spend a lot of time and effort defending him and attacking the democrats.
SB |  | | |
| US election on 20:20 - Nov 4 with 1642 views | J2BLUE |
| US election on 20:11 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
Based on the fact that she was humiliated in the primaries when she ran. She just inherited he power because Biden clearly wasn't capable. If you listen to her talk for an extended time she will trip over herself and talk nonsense. She doesn't encourage confidence. |
I care more about values, honesty and integrity than being a good talker. Ever listened to Trump? Hardly a good orator is he?
Harris has a CV few can match.
This really has nothing to do with picking sides or believing the Democrats over the Republicans.
There are so many red flags with Trump. He's an overgrown toddler who has lost the restraint of Pence and knows his time is up in four years so will probably look to do everything he can to stay in power. He is a danger to much of the world. The only people outside of his base who want him to win are those in power in Russia. | |
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| US election on 20:22 - Nov 4 with 1638 views | redrickstuhaart |
| US election on 20:08 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
You just posted an opinion piece from the Guardian . The only people who think that Trump is "more unstable by the hour" are his detractors. The unfortunate thing is that society has diverged so much that information is so low quality or it is a major effort to cut through the nonsense.
I think you should listen to what RFK Jr has said. I've watched a few of his interviews and saw him on Rogan. The things that I took was that he was essentially a skeptic on how vaccines are tested and how companies make profits rather than doubting the efficacy of vaccines. The makers of the COVID vaccines were given carte blanche and allowed to get away with taking no liability or responsibility for inevitable vaccine-induced injuries. Find me a direct quote of him saying that vaccines in general don't work or don't help. Then I might share your concerns. There is no doubt that vaccines are injurious to some people. There are all sorts of medical scandals based on the profit incentive and the paying off officials and the marginalization of dissenting voices.
"As with nearly everything Trump says, if you take the time to look beneath the rhetoric you usually end up with either a lie or a horrible policy." Give me three specific examples if it is that common.
"It's been fairly clear that Trump supporting posters have been keen to steer any debates away from actual policies and towards feelings, narratives and false equivalence attacks on the democrats." this is just you personal feelings though isn't it?
There are a lot of areas that Democrats are not scientific and go with their feelings on issues. Just look into the gender stuff to start with.
I don't understand why people have blind trust for political parties, they are self-serving and we have to hold them to account. Don't trust the Democrats much more than you trust the Republicans. |
He literally posted specifics. Rfk' views on vacciens are terrifying and absurd and Trump says he will "work on health and women’s health,".
Unstable and lunatic. | | | |
| US election on 20:23 - Nov 4 with 1636 views | redrickstuhaart |
| US election on 20:11 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
Based on the fact that she was humiliated in the primaries when she ran. She just inherited he power because Biden clearly wasn't capable. If you listen to her talk for an extended time she will trip over herself and talk nonsense. She doesn't encourage confidence. |
You avoided the question again. Give specifics.
And "listen to her" isnt enough. Especially when supporting Donald "theyre eating the cats and dogs" Trump. | | | |
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| US election on 20:25 - Nov 4 with 1626 views | StokieBlue |
| US election on 20:11 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
Based on the fact that she was humiliated in the primaries when she ran. She just inherited he power because Biden clearly wasn't capable. If you listen to her talk for an extended time she will trip over herself and talk nonsense. She doesn't encourage confidence. |
How can you state that about Harris but not Trump?
I've watched a few rally speeches this week and it's a rambling mess where he often repeats himself a few minutes later or just plainly gets things wrong.
Your posts are showing an unbelievable double-standard for a claimed non-partisan poster.
SB | | | |
| US election on 20:31 - Nov 4 with 1555 views | ipswichoracle |
| US election on 20:20 - Nov 4 by J2BLUE |
I care more about values, honesty and integrity than being a good talker. Ever listened to Trump? Hardly a good orator is he?
Harris has a CV few can match.
This really has nothing to do with picking sides or believing the Democrats over the Republicans.
There are so many red flags with Trump. He's an overgrown toddler who has lost the restraint of Pence and knows his time is up in four years so will probably look to do everything he can to stay in power. He is a danger to much of the world. The only people outside of his base who want him to win are those in power in Russia. |
He’s also an adjudicated rapist, and as a private citizen, is unable to own a firearm coz he’s a felon. Unqualified for McDonald’s, let alone the Oval Office. | | | |
| US election on 21:03 - Nov 4 with 1465 views | GlasgowBlue |
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| US election on 21:18 - Nov 4 with 1410 views | iamatractorboy |
| US election on 18:47 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
I'm not sure you could point at either side and say that they will destroy the country, it is going to be 4 more years of Trump or 4 more years of Biden with a slight difference.
You sanely can't look at the 4 years of Trump previously and come to the conclusion that he will destroy the country or turn it into Russia. He will certainly look to be involved in less wars.
The thing is that the electorate have seen evidence that Trump in office is not a dictatorship and actually the economy was pretty good, so a lot of voters are heading into the election thinking that it's a rude and obnoxious man who will be good for them and their families versus a seemingly incompetent woman who will be more of the same of the failures of Biden. |
If one spent 4 years driving around without a seat belt on and p*ssed, that isn't a recommendation to spend another 4 years doing the same. It's only luck that has stopped one from facing dire consequences.
This time, to continue the driving analogy, the handbrake will be off for Trump. He will fill key positions with lackeys and do anything he can get away with. And as for the 'no wars' thing, that's because he's perfectly happy to hang allies out to dry if it means he can kiss the posterior of people like Putin and Kim. So the war in Ukraine might be over very quickly but only because he would happily give old Vlad exactly what he wants.
Life may not get that much worse for the majority of Americans, but for a minority I suspect it would get worse, and miserably so. | | | |
| US election on 21:34 - Nov 4 with 1370 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| US election on 20:08 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
You just posted an opinion piece from the Guardian . The only people who think that Trump is "more unstable by the hour" are his detractors. The unfortunate thing is that society has diverged so much that information is so low quality or it is a major effort to cut through the nonsense.
I think you should listen to what RFK Jr has said. I've watched a few of his interviews and saw him on Rogan. The things that I took was that he was essentially a skeptic on how vaccines are tested and how companies make profits rather than doubting the efficacy of vaccines. The makers of the COVID vaccines were given carte blanche and allowed to get away with taking no liability or responsibility for inevitable vaccine-induced injuries. Find me a direct quote of him saying that vaccines in general don't work or don't help. Then I might share your concerns. There is no doubt that vaccines are injurious to some people. There are all sorts of medical scandals based on the profit incentive and the paying off officials and the marginalization of dissenting voices.
"As with nearly everything Trump says, if you take the time to look beneath the rhetoric you usually end up with either a lie or a horrible policy." Give me three specific examples if it is that common.
"It's been fairly clear that Trump supporting posters have been keen to steer any debates away from actual policies and towards feelings, narratives and false equivalence attacks on the democrats." this is just you personal feelings though isn't it?
There are a lot of areas that Democrats are not scientific and go with their feelings on issues. Just look into the gender stuff to start with.
I don't understand why people have blind trust for political parties, they are self-serving and we have to hold them to account. Don't trust the Democrats much more than you trust the Republicans. |
"As with nearly everything Trump says, if you take the time to look beneath the rhetoric you usually end up with either a lie or a horrible policy." Give me three specific examples if it is that common.
Take your pick (The Post piece is 3 years old, the rest more recent)
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/04/politics/fact-check-trump-campaign-final-day-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-fact-checker-tracked-trump-claims/20
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category&ruling=false&speake
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2024/11/01/donald-trump-misinformat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgjv3gdxv7go |  |
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| US election on 22:24 - Nov 4 with 1298 views | Europablue |
| US election on 20:19 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
I'll respond to your whole post when I'm home but your first sentence is a lie. It's not an opinion piece, it's a stated policy of RFK Jr which Trump has said he is considering.
It's facts not opinion. It's not a great start when your first sentence is a lie.
The entire section you've posted about RFK Jr is incorrect. You clearly know very little about his history or views past an interview on Rogan yet you've doubled down.
I've posted about RFK Jr views a fews days ago with linked sources, why don't you go and look and hopefully you'll then respond with a more accurate response. A few tidbits would be that he's a long time chairman of an anti-vaccine charity and he wants MMR banned as he still believes it causes autism. It's nothing to do with COVID vaccines so I'm not sure why you based everything on that.
For someone who claims not to support Trump you spend a lot of time and effort defending him and attacking the democrats.
SB |
I'm open to learning new information, but you have to excuse me if I don't just take your word for it. That article was not a news article, so it was an opinion piece regardless of it might included facts. So you saying that I lied is a misrepresentation at best. I won't accept a statement on someone's character without some background facts and some supporting evidence. If I have heard someone directly stating their views that is primary source. You have to remember that the political opposition always has a reason for misrepresenting the other side. If you pay attention you will notice your side doing it too. I see it happening on both sides of the American argument.
I know there are a lot of people I don't trust saying that RFK Jr is vaccine denier. I'm skeptical about what he says and I don't know a whole lot about him. If you provide me evidence of things that he has directly stated then I'll look into, but I don't need to waste my time reading proof that vaccines actually work. The concept makes sense of course. Vaccines also kill people and injure people, and anyone who says that they don't does not know what they are talking about. I'm not too concerned personally with healthcare in America because it doesn't affect me, although I do hope for the best for the American people.
"For someone who claims not to support Trump you spend a lot of time and effort defending him and attacking the democrats." Well that's your opinion. Did I say I support Trump? You'll have to quote me saying that. I get why people don't like Trump, but I don't get why people hate him to the extent that they compare him to Hitler. It is deranged.
I'm not trying to influence anyone to vote. I actually assume that no-one who can legally vote will read what I say. I'm only interested in hearing people's opinions and pushing back where I don't agree. The general point is to understand other people's views and maybe learn something. | | | |
| US election on 22:37 - Nov 4 with 1248 views | Europablue |
| US election on 20:22 - Nov 4 by redrickstuhaart |
He literally posted specifics. Rfk' views on vacciens are terrifying and absurd and Trump says he will "work on health and women’s health,".
Unstable and lunatic. |
My entire point is that he told me RFK Jr's views, he didn't show me. He just told referred me to another person's views on RFK Jr might well be a crazy quack and he might believe all the things that were said, but proof is important.
If I knew and respected your views on the subject, I might take your word for it, buy you are effectively a stranger. It is a basic stance on staying neutral until you can corroborate enough information to form a view. Many people on this forum want a hate figure to project on. American healthcare has way too much emphasis on the profit motive. I liked a lot of what I heard JD Vance say about Trump's stance on healthcare. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that he wants big pharma to get rich off of helping people, not destroying lives and overcharging.
You make up your own mind based on your experiences and what you hear, that's what we all have to do. I have not really heard anything bad about JD Vance, and he comes across well. In the end you have to take a punt on a politician and use past behaviour and performance as an indicator, and if they are relatively inexperienced, you have to look at their character and listen to their positions on different policies. | | | |
| US election on 22:43 - Nov 4 with 1220 views | positivity |
| US election on 20:25 - Nov 4 by StokieBlue |
How can you state that about Harris but not Trump?
I've watched a few rally speeches this week and it's a rambling mess where he often repeats himself a few minutes later or just plainly gets things wrong.
Your posts are showing an unbelievable double-standard for a claimed non-partisan poster.
SB |
his mental decline over the last 4 years is frightening, who knows what he'll be like at 82 years old (older than biden is now)at the end of the next term.
i'm particularly concerned about his weakness when faced with dictators; putin ran rings around him last time, but with his cognitive issues accelerating, it could be a disaster | |
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| US election on 22:47 - Nov 4 with 1187 views | positivity |
| US election on 22:37 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
My entire point is that he told me RFK Jr's views, he didn't show me. He just told referred me to another person's views on RFK Jr might well be a crazy quack and he might believe all the things that were said, but proof is important.
If I knew and respected your views on the subject, I might take your word for it, buy you are effectively a stranger. It is a basic stance on staying neutral until you can corroborate enough information to form a view. Many people on this forum want a hate figure to project on. American healthcare has way too much emphasis on the profit motive. I liked a lot of what I heard JD Vance say about Trump's stance on healthcare. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that he wants big pharma to get rich off of helping people, not destroying lives and overcharging.
You make up your own mind based on your experiences and what you hear, that's what we all have to do. I have not really heard anything bad about JD Vance, and he comes across well. In the end you have to take a punt on a politician and use past behaviour and performance as an indicator, and if they are relatively inexperienced, you have to look at their character and listen to their positions on different policies. |
just look at what trump has said about rfk's views, or look at what rfk has said himself. it's in the public record and not controversial.
also worth educating yourself on vance's views
as for trump's "past behaviour", how many criminal convictions and bankruptcies is your preferred amount for a man's character?! i can only assuming you're trolling for effect now [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 22:48]
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| US election on 22:54 - Nov 4 with 1158 views | Europablue |
| US election on 20:20 - Nov 4 by J2BLUE |
I care more about values, honesty and integrity than being a good talker. Ever listened to Trump? Hardly a good orator is he?
Harris has a CV few can match.
This really has nothing to do with picking sides or believing the Democrats over the Republicans.
There are so many red flags with Trump. He's an overgrown toddler who has lost the restraint of Pence and knows his time is up in four years so will probably look to do everything he can to stay in power. He is a danger to much of the world. The only people outside of his base who want him to win are those in power in Russia. |
Trump has a stream of consciousness that seems very rambly and says a lot of stuff that sounds like nonsense until you look into and it turns out it is based on a study or article he has read. Case in point is his comment about whales and wind turbines.
Trump might try to stay in power the way that Obama has stayed in power, but I guarantee you that he won't try and run again for President if he wins.
Be skeptical about Trump by all means, but don't present me with TDS nonsense. There are also a lot of red flags about Harris. She seems to be a political weather vane, and did not have the personality or political clout to gain enough support in the primaries then was selected by Biden or his people to meet certain demographic requirements and to be a yes woman. She comes across as very weak and I imagine world leaders would eat her for breakfast.
It's really difficult to take you seriously when you say "The only people outside of his base who want him to win are those in power in Russia". Millions of people in America who are not in Trump's base will vote for him because they think on balance he is the better choice. I'm not in Trump's base. I just think the past 4 years have been really bad with Biden and the democrats steering the ship. There have been some awful policies and positions such as trying to redefine what a man and a women are and pushing the concept of defunding the police, that should not gain any traction or support in a sensible society. What is the worst thing you think that Trump has supported? Can that compare?
Trump is not a yes man to Russia and Putin. It might be good for Russia that Trump wants to end the war in Ukraine, so I can see that argument against Trump if you think that is the most important issue. I am certain that Putin was very happy that Biden was in charge for the past 4 years and it is difficult to see how Harris would do any better. | | | |
| US election on 22:56 - Nov 4 with 1141 views | Europablue |
| US election on 20:23 - Nov 4 by redrickstuhaart |
You avoided the question again. Give specifics.
And "listen to her" isnt enough. Especially when supporting Donald "theyre eating the cats and dogs" Trump. |
I directly answered the question. I don't what you are talking about! | | | |
| US election on 22:59 - Nov 4 with 1127 views | Europablue |
| US election on 22:43 - Nov 4 by positivity |
his mental decline over the last 4 years is frightening, who knows what he'll be like at 82 years old (older than biden is now)at the end of the next term.
i'm particularly concerned about his weakness when faced with dictators; putin ran rings around him last time, but with his cognitive issues accelerating, it could be a disaster |
That just sounds like the narrative about Biden, but in his case it was really obvious.
What is your proof and how did Putin run rings around Trump and why did he wait for Trump to leave office before invading Ukraine? | | | |
| US election on 23:01 - Nov 4 with 1126 views | positivity |
| US election on 22:54 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
Trump has a stream of consciousness that seems very rambly and says a lot of stuff that sounds like nonsense until you look into and it turns out it is based on a study or article he has read. Case in point is his comment about whales and wind turbines.
Trump might try to stay in power the way that Obama has stayed in power, but I guarantee you that he won't try and run again for President if he wins.
Be skeptical about Trump by all means, but don't present me with TDS nonsense. There are also a lot of red flags about Harris. She seems to be a political weather vane, and did not have the personality or political clout to gain enough support in the primaries then was selected by Biden or his people to meet certain demographic requirements and to be a yes woman. She comes across as very weak and I imagine world leaders would eat her for breakfast.
It's really difficult to take you seriously when you say "The only people outside of his base who want him to win are those in power in Russia". Millions of people in America who are not in Trump's base will vote for him because they think on balance he is the better choice. I'm not in Trump's base. I just think the past 4 years have been really bad with Biden and the democrats steering the ship. There have been some awful policies and positions such as trying to redefine what a man and a women are and pushing the concept of defunding the police, that should not gain any traction or support in a sensible society. What is the worst thing you think that Trump has supported? Can that compare?
Trump is not a yes man to Russia and Putin. It might be good for Russia that Trump wants to end the war in Ukraine, so I can see that argument against Trump if you think that is the most important issue. I am certain that Putin was very happy that Biden was in charge for the past 4 years and it is difficult to see how Harris would do any better. |
unbelievable statement, " I guarantee you that he won't try and run again for President if he wins." he'll have served his maximum 2 terms, so he can't. plus he'll be 82 and he's barely coherent now!
do you even believe the nonsense you are spouting? when all sides of the political spectrum on twtd are uniting against you, do you ever stop to think how ridiculous you're coming across? [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 23:01]
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| US election on 23:06 - Nov 4 with 1096 views | Europablue |
| US election on 22:47 - Nov 4 by positivity |
just look at what trump has said about rfk's views, or look at what rfk has said himself. it's in the public record and not controversial.
also worth educating yourself on vance's views
as for trump's "past behaviour", how many criminal convictions and bankruptcies is your preferred amount for a man's character?! i can only assuming you're trolling for effect now [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 22:48]
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No, you tell me what you think is pertinent.
I don't think Trump is a good or moral person. A good and moral person is the ideal candidate, but they need to be more than that. In this case they just have to be better than the other candidate in terms of the effects they will have on the country and the world. I'd sleep better with Trump in charge than Harris.
I'm particularly interested in what you have to say about Vance because he seems like what Trump would be like if you were looking for a more presentable and less controversial version of Trump. | | | |
| US election on 23:06 - Nov 4 with 1094 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| US election on 22:54 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
Trump has a stream of consciousness that seems very rambly and says a lot of stuff that sounds like nonsense until you look into and it turns out it is based on a study or article he has read. Case in point is his comment about whales and wind turbines.
Trump might try to stay in power the way that Obama has stayed in power, but I guarantee you that he won't try and run again for President if he wins.
Be skeptical about Trump by all means, but don't present me with TDS nonsense. There are also a lot of red flags about Harris. She seems to be a political weather vane, and did not have the personality or political clout to gain enough support in the primaries then was selected by Biden or his people to meet certain demographic requirements and to be a yes woman. She comes across as very weak and I imagine world leaders would eat her for breakfast.
It's really difficult to take you seriously when you say "The only people outside of his base who want him to win are those in power in Russia". Millions of people in America who are not in Trump's base will vote for him because they think on balance he is the better choice. I'm not in Trump's base. I just think the past 4 years have been really bad with Biden and the democrats steering the ship. There have been some awful policies and positions such as trying to redefine what a man and a women are and pushing the concept of defunding the police, that should not gain any traction or support in a sensible society. What is the worst thing you think that Trump has supported? Can that compare?
Trump is not a yes man to Russia and Putin. It might be good for Russia that Trump wants to end the war in Ukraine, so I can see that argument against Trump if you think that is the most important issue. I am certain that Putin was very happy that Biden was in charge for the past 4 years and it is difficult to see how Harris would do any better. |
"Trump has a stream of consciousness .."
Well that's another keyboard I have to clean coffee off of.
I mean, the "best" of Trump's efforts are hardly
"riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend
of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to
Howth Castle and Environs."
are they?
And whilst what he says may be triggered by something he has read one has to question in those cases whether he has grasped the meaning because he has serious problems communicating it.
Of course, as I have already pointed out to you (as you requested it), far more of what Trump says is simply untrue.
But then opinions these days do seem to outweigh facts.
Edited for spellig [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 23:08]
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| US election on 23:09 - Nov 4 with 1069 views | StokieBlue |
| US election on 22:24 - Nov 4 by Europablue |
I'm open to learning new information, but you have to excuse me if I don't just take your word for it. That article was not a news article, so it was an opinion piece regardless of it might included facts. So you saying that I lied is a misrepresentation at best. I won't accept a statement on someone's character without some background facts and some supporting evidence. If I have heard someone directly stating their views that is primary source. You have to remember that the political opposition always has a reason for misrepresenting the other side. If you pay attention you will notice your side doing it too. I see it happening on both sides of the American argument.
I know there are a lot of people I don't trust saying that RFK Jr is vaccine denier. I'm skeptical about what he says and I don't know a whole lot about him. If you provide me evidence of things that he has directly stated then I'll look into, but I don't need to waste my time reading proof that vaccines actually work. The concept makes sense of course. Vaccines also kill people and injure people, and anyone who says that they don't does not know what they are talking about. I'm not too concerned personally with healthcare in America because it doesn't affect me, although I do hope for the best for the American people.
"For someone who claims not to support Trump you spend a lot of time and effort defending him and attacking the democrats." Well that's your opinion. Did I say I support Trump? You'll have to quote me saying that. I get why people don't like Trump, but I don't get why people hate him to the extent that they compare him to Hitler. It is deranged.
I'm not trying to influence anyone to vote. I actually assume that no-one who can legally vote will read what I say. I'm only interested in hearing people's opinions and pushing back where I don't agree. The general point is to understand other people's views and maybe learn something. |
"I'm open to learning new information, but you have to excuse me if I don't just take your word for it."
I don't believe this to be the case otherwise you could have done what I asked which was look at my previous post on the subject where everything was linked. The fact you didn't even try shows a distinct lack of interest in the facts.
"That article was not a news article, so it was an opinion piece regardless of it might included facts."
This is utter nonsense. You've claimed it's an opinion piece and dismissed it (which it isn't) whilst also conceding that it contains facts which you haven't bothered to click on or check. I think everyone can see who has the issue here.
"So you saying that I lied is a misrepresentation at best. I won't accept a statement on someone's character without some background facts and some supporting evidence. If I have heard someone directly stating their views that is primary source. You have to remember that the political opposition always has a reason for misrepresenting the other side. If you pay attention you will notice your side doing it too. I see it happening on both sides of the American argument.
I know there are a lot of people I don't trust saying that RFK Jr is vaccine denier. I'm skeptical about what he says and I don't know a whole lot about him. If you provide me evidence of things that he has directly stated then I'll look into, but I don't need to waste my time reading proof that vaccines actually work."
Lot's of words to say almost nothing. I've shown you where the evidence is but since you're unwilling to look it up from my posting history here you go:
"In 2005, he published an article titled “Deadly Immunity,” in both Rolling Stone and Salon, alleging that the mercury-based chemical thimerosal causes mercury poisoning and in turn autism, according to Vox.
There was no evidence to support Kennedy’s view and the article was retracted at Salon." [1].
This is his anti-vaccine charity [2].
Here is a summary of his various anti-vaccine positions [3].
A BBC article outlining the history of his anti-vaccine positions [4].
Honestly, there are countless articles, it's not for me to provide these ad-Infinium, it's for you to prove that he's not anti-vaccine and won't look to withdraw their use in the US.
"The concept makes sense of course. Vaccines also kill people and injure people, and anyone who says that they don't does not know what they are talking about. I'm not too concerned personally with healthcare in America because it doesn't affect me, although I do hope for the best for the American people."
I've provided direct information on how vaccines are effective both medically and economically and I've provided the links. Do me the courtesy of actually reading them before you reply with rubbish like this. You are picking out tail events and attempting to use them to justify the position of RFK Jr which you've even conceded you aren't sure about.
It's nonsensical and insulting to other posters reading the forum.
""For someone who claims not to support Trump you spend a lot of time and effort defending him and attacking the democrats." Well that's your opinion. Did I say I support Trump? You'll have to quote me saying that."
This makes no sense, did you even read my post? I've said you have claimed not to support Trump, how can I quote you on the opposite? As for the time spent defending him, it's not an opinion, if anyone could be bothered it's fairly easy to show how the majority of your posts on the subject support or defend him.
"I'm not trying to influence anyone to vote. I actually assume that no-one who can legally vote will read what I say. I'm only interested in hearing people's opinions and pushing back where I don't agree. The general point is to understand other people's views and maybe learn something."
Once again this isn't true. You're not interested in hearing other peoples opinions, when it differs from yours then the replies are designed to obfuscate or dismiss. You don't look into sources provided and you make no effort to verify information which is counter to what you believe when someone tells you where it can be found. You've made no comment on any of the articles I provided showing the medical and economic benefits of vaccines.
What you do seem to do is write long posts attempting to confuse the issue in favour of Trump.
SB
[1]. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rfk-jr-trump-promised-control-public-health-agen
[2]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense
[3]. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rfk-jr-now-presidential-candidate-ukraine-vaccin
[4]. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68447223 [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 23:13]
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