| Goalkeeper 10:15 - Jan 28 with 5602 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
Will keep banging the drum on this one, but I really think we have to sign a new goalkeeper this window.
Neither keep you up in this division. I think it's as simple as that. Right now, it's 3 teams battling for 1 magic spot to keep you in this league and decisions like this matter. Be ruthless or fall short. |  |
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| Goalkeeper on 19:07 - Jan 28 with 1843 views | ibbleobble |
| Goalkeeper on 12:03 - Jan 28 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
We will likely still be relegated if we do, there's 10 more players on the pitch who contribute as much to our goals against as our keepers do. This idea that Muric, or Walton, are purely at fault for all the points dropped when we have so many other issues all over the field which are causing us to drop points is just silly. |
The idea that we create more playing out from the back with Muric than we do Walton when Walton has faced Chelsea, City and Liverpool in 3 of his 5 games is also a flawed concept. The only way to truly tell if Muric is better and we play better with him in goal is to give Walton the sane game time with the sane brief. That would see Muric out of all PL games until the end of the season. |  | | |
| Goalkeeper on 19:34 - Jan 28 with 1801 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Goalkeeper on 19:07 - Jan 28 by ibbleobble |
The idea that we create more playing out from the back with Muric than we do Walton when Walton has faced Chelsea, City and Liverpool in 3 of his 5 games is also a flawed concept. The only way to truly tell if Muric is better and we play better with him in goal is to give Walton the sane game time with the sane brief. That would see Muric out of all PL games until the end of the season. |
A somewhat flawed argument.
If Walton lumps most balls upfield, which is exactly what he does 9 out of 10 times, then it’s impossible to build out from the back.
I’ve sat there so many times watching Walton, when there’s been an opportunity for a quickly short release (throw or kick), and he just holds onto it for too long and then kicks it long.
Walton’s a decent keeper, but he’s not good at doing what we need a keeper to do with the game plan we have.
A kick up field is sometimes the right choice (and one Muric maybe doesn’t consider often enough - although it was improving), but that kick up field from the keeper should be 1 in 10, not 9 in 10. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 11:23 - Jan 29 with 1693 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Goalkeeper on 10:32 - Jan 28 by NedPlimpton |
Sorry, but this is such a simplistic way of looking at things.
For a start scoring goals is a bigger issue than conceding. We've scored the 3rd fewest goals in the league and conceded the 4th most (having played the leagues highest scorers twice already). We also still have the lowest XG in the league
Signing a new keeper may prevent a goal here or there, but really we need to get our shooting boots on again and start finding a way to get the ball up the pitch and troubling the opposition goal. We just aren't doing that with the current system and Delap looks incredibly isolated
Personally i'd get Muric back in and start attempting to play out from the back a bit more. That means accepting there'll be a few mistakes along the way but it carried more of a threat than we're currently producing |
Playing out from the back in the Premier League has certainly cost us more goals than what we have scored. Why you would want to go back to that? | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 11:32 - Jan 29 with 1680 views | GlasgowBlue |
Too late unfortunately, but the keeper situation reminds me of when Burley kept changing between Serini and Marshall. |  |
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| Goalkeeper on 12:09 - Jan 29 with 1615 views | NedPlimpton |
| Goalkeeper on 11:32 - Jan 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Too late unfortunately, but the keeper situation reminds me of when Burley kept changing between Serini and Marshall. |
I could be wrong but I feel like Prem clubs rotate keepers a bit more nowadays
West Ham and City have both brought in their "2nd choice" when they've needed to switch things up. Didn't Brighton also rotate a fair bit? |  | | |
| Goalkeeper on 02:33 - Jan 30 with 1510 views | itfc1108 |
If we can stay up this season, I'd go all out for Kelleher from Liverpool in the summer, and try and invest in the spine of the team. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 07:21 - Jan 30 with 1447 views | ibbleobble |
| Goalkeeper on 19:34 - Jan 28 by SuffolkPunchFC |
A somewhat flawed argument.
If Walton lumps most balls upfield, which is exactly what he does 9 out of 10 times, then it’s impossible to build out from the back.
I’ve sat there so many times watching Walton, when there’s been an opportunity for a quickly short release (throw or kick), and he just holds onto it for too long and then kicks it long.
Walton’s a decent keeper, but he’s not good at doing what we need a keeper to do with the game plan we have.
A kick up field is sometimes the right choice (and one Muric maybe doesn’t consider often enough - although it was improving), but that kick up field from the keeper should be 1 in 10, not 9 in 10. |
How’s giving the same game time with the same brief to the keepers a flawed argument to see who’s better? The only true way to judge Walton against Muric at PL level is to give him the remainder of the season.
Walton has been going long under instruction as our game plan has changed. The idea he can’t play out from the back is a lazy argument imo. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 12:53 - Jan 30 with 1336 views | Leaky |
| Goalkeeper on 11:56 - Jan 28 by Bellevue_Blue |
Maybe if Chelsea with all their many millions are struggling to find an elite goalkeeper then it's not quite as easy as just signing another keeper who is going to magically turn around our fortunes. |
I think I read somewhere they have 8 goalkeepers at Chelsea |  | | |
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| Goalkeeper on 13:45 - Jan 30 with 1303 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Goalkeeper on 19:34 - Jan 28 by SuffolkPunchFC |
A somewhat flawed argument.
If Walton lumps most balls upfield, which is exactly what he does 9 out of 10 times, then it’s impossible to build out from the back.
I’ve sat there so many times watching Walton, when there’s been an opportunity for a quickly short release (throw or kick), and he just holds onto it for too long and then kicks it long.
Walton’s a decent keeper, but he’s not good at doing what we need a keeper to do with the game plan we have.
A kick up field is sometimes the right choice (and one Muric maybe doesn’t consider often enough - although it was improving), but that kick up field from the keeper should be 1 in 10, not 9 in 10. |
Can someone remind me of a time when Muric’s apparent ability with his feet has contributed positively to a scoreline?
We haven’t scored the sort of goals we were scoring last season where we started from the back and sliced through teams - of course we haven’t, it’s the Premiership - and whilst Walton doesn’t push up into the “sweeper”-type role Hladky did, nor does Muric. So we’re left with Muric’s ability to play a short ball to a nearby teammate as his edge over Walton - yet there’s a very decent chance he leaves them scrambling for their life when he does so, and that’s cost us more times than it’s been a benefit. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 14:35 - Jan 30 with 1270 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Goalkeeper on 13:45 - Jan 30 by FoghornGleghorn |
Can someone remind me of a time when Muric’s apparent ability with his feet has contributed positively to a scoreline?
We haven’t scored the sort of goals we were scoring last season where we started from the back and sliced through teams - of course we haven’t, it’s the Premiership - and whilst Walton doesn’t push up into the “sweeper”-type role Hladky did, nor does Muric. So we’re left with Muric’s ability to play a short ball to a nearby teammate as his edge over Walton - yet there’s a very decent chance he leaves them scrambling for their life when he does so, and that’s cost us more times than it’s been a benefit. |
We have a lot of people posting opinion (of course everyone's entitled to an opinion - just doesn't mean it's right), with little basis in fact. Of course playing out of the back is harder in the Premiership, but giving up possession easily (with long kicks from the back for example) puts us under pressure much more.
Some keeper stats :
Shots face - Muric 98, Walton 34
Goals conceded - Muric 31, Walton 16
xGOT - Muric 31.45, Walton 15.27
Save precentage - Muric 68.4, Walton 51.5
Acted as a sweeper - Muric 62.2%, Walton 13.5%
High claim - Muric 37 (100% success), Walton 11 (51.4%)
Muric is ahead of Walton on most stats - the exception being mistakes leading to goals. And we all agree that this has to improve. However, the stats in general indicate that Muric has stopped more goal scoring opportunities, and this goes some way to mitigating those conceded through his mistakes.
Who knows, Muric may have stopped a number of those that Walton conceded. He is a better shot-stopper. Mistakes leading to goals is very obvious. Goals conceded that may have been stopped by another keeper - less clear, and we'll never know. We can only surmise from the comparable stats.
Finally, as I posted in another thread - Muric reduces the pressure on the team at times, because we tend to have higher possession percentages with him playing.
Assume we have the money for one more big signing. Where do you spend it? by SuffolkPunchFC 23 Jan 13:23Our possession has become significantly worse in the last 4 league games. 10% down at home and 12% down away, if we look at all games since the beginning of November.
This is, I would suggest, not down to midfield, but a change of tactics since Walton came in, and with it more balls being lumped up field and bypassing the midfield. These more frequent balls lumped upfield invariably result in possession being given back to the opposition very quickly.
Possession isn't everything, but does reduce pressure and you don't concede when in possession.
The stats suggest we'll get better results with Muric in goal between now and the end of the season. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 15:04 - Jan 30 with 1236 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Goalkeeper on 14:35 - Jan 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
We have a lot of people posting opinion (of course everyone's entitled to an opinion - just doesn't mean it's right), with little basis in fact. Of course playing out of the back is harder in the Premiership, but giving up possession easily (with long kicks from the back for example) puts us under pressure much more.
Some keeper stats :
Shots face - Muric 98, Walton 34
Goals conceded - Muric 31, Walton 16
xGOT - Muric 31.45, Walton 15.27
Save precentage - Muric 68.4, Walton 51.5
Acted as a sweeper - Muric 62.2%, Walton 13.5%
High claim - Muric 37 (100% success), Walton 11 (51.4%)
Muric is ahead of Walton on most stats - the exception being mistakes leading to goals. And we all agree that this has to improve. However, the stats in general indicate that Muric has stopped more goal scoring opportunities, and this goes some way to mitigating those conceded through his mistakes.
Who knows, Muric may have stopped a number of those that Walton conceded. He is a better shot-stopper. Mistakes leading to goals is very obvious. Goals conceded that may have been stopped by another keeper - less clear, and we'll never know. We can only surmise from the comparable stats.
Finally, as I posted in another thread - Muric reduces the pressure on the team at times, because we tend to have higher possession percentages with him playing.
Assume we have the money for one more big signing. Where do you spend it? by SuffolkPunchFC 23 Jan 13:23Our possession has become significantly worse in the last 4 league games. 10% down at home and 12% down away, if we look at all games since the beginning of November.
This is, I would suggest, not down to midfield, but a change of tactics since Walton came in, and with it more balls being lumped up field and bypassing the midfield. These more frequent balls lumped upfield invariably result in possession being given back to the opposition very quickly.
Possession isn't everything, but does reduce pressure and you don't concede when in possession.
The stats suggest we'll get better results with Muric in goal between now and the end of the season. |
Indeed, it’s all opinion-based, but you can make stats do anything. Walton’s last two games have been against the two most potent attacking sides in the country, and will have skewed all this substantially. I think a proportional analysis of the below stats relative to opponents’ league position would be insightful - but again, stats can do anything. Rather than rely on stats that indicate the team ought to be under less pressure with Muric behind them, I prefer the clear signs on show in games that they aren’t, such as the collective panics when he hasn’t done what he’s supposed to, or Szmodics audibly bellowing out in frustration about his kicking. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 15:34 - Jan 30 with 1204 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Goalkeeper on 15:04 - Jan 30 by FoghornGleghorn |
Indeed, it’s all opinion-based, but you can make stats do anything. Walton’s last two games have been against the two most potent attacking sides in the country, and will have skewed all this substantially. I think a proportional analysis of the below stats relative to opponents’ league position would be insightful - but again, stats can do anything. Rather than rely on stats that indicate the team ought to be under less pressure with Muric behind them, I prefer the clear signs on show in games that they aren’t, such as the collective panics when he hasn’t done what he’s supposed to, or Szmodics audibly bellowing out in frustration about his kicking. |
There's a lot of statistical data that suggests that your opinion of what you (subjectively) believe you see, is flawed. Such as saying Muric doesn't perform a sweeper role.
Stats are stats - it's what people do with them that can be manipulated to fit an agenda. Feel free to review the available data, and come back with different conclusions if you believe they support a different point of view.
However, these stats are complied and analysed by people who are independent. You have inadvertent bias (as do I, and every supporter) since we have our preferred style of play, players, tactics, etc which skews how we see things.
You also seem to forget that Muric has also faced ManC already, plus Newcastle, Chelsea, etc. Plenty of formidable attacks (and arguably faced ManC when they were far more threatening with Rodri in the team).
I've been happy to see Walton have a chance, and pretty even-handed with both of them (as I think you have been also with previous posts). For me the evidence suggests that both keepers have strengths and weaknesses, but what I've (subjectively) seen in the last few games is that Muric is the better prospect for us, and the data analysis supports that. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 16:03 - Jan 30 with 1167 views | rickw |
| Goalkeeper on 15:34 - Jan 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
There's a lot of statistical data that suggests that your opinion of what you (subjectively) believe you see, is flawed. Such as saying Muric doesn't perform a sweeper role.
Stats are stats - it's what people do with them that can be manipulated to fit an agenda. Feel free to review the available data, and come back with different conclusions if you believe they support a different point of view.
However, these stats are complied and analysed by people who are independent. You have inadvertent bias (as do I, and every supporter) since we have our preferred style of play, players, tactics, etc which skews how we see things.
You also seem to forget that Muric has also faced ManC already, plus Newcastle, Chelsea, etc. Plenty of formidable attacks (and arguably faced ManC when they were far more threatening with Rodri in the team).
I've been happy to see Walton have a chance, and pretty even-handed with both of them (as I think you have been also with previous posts). For me the evidence suggests that both keepers have strengths and weaknesses, but what I've (subjectively) seen in the last few games is that Muric is the better prospect for us, and the data analysis supports that. |
In the cup game it seemed liked Muric had completely lost all confidence and was too scared to come 6 yards off his line to collect a ball, whilst his head is in that place he really can't play for us! I still think he'll end up a very good keeper but we can't risk his mistakes this season |  |
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| Goalkeeper on 16:22 - Jan 30 with 1132 views | Smoresy |
| Goalkeeper on 19:34 - Jan 28 by SuffolkPunchFC |
A somewhat flawed argument.
If Walton lumps most balls upfield, which is exactly what he does 9 out of 10 times, then it’s impossible to build out from the back.
I’ve sat there so many times watching Walton, when there’s been an opportunity for a quickly short release (throw or kick), and he just holds onto it for too long and then kicks it long.
Walton’s a decent keeper, but he’s not good at doing what we need a keeper to do with the game plan we have.
A kick up field is sometimes the right choice (and one Muric maybe doesn’t consider often enough - although it was improving), but that kick up field from the keeper should be 1 in 10, not 9 in 10. |
Highly flawed, to be honest. The idea that every player must be afforded the same minutes to truly judge who is better is silly. Imagine if we employed that logic with our strikers this season. 🫣
That being said, I wouldn't argue for Muric to return based on distribution alone. Both are awkward with the short stuff, like plenty of PL keepers. It's notable that Walton is bottom of the league for "sweeper" actions, as well as launching the ball 15% more than Muric, but hard to know if McKenna's asked Walton to be much more conservative here, or if maybe this is Walton observing that to have been Muric's undoing.
I'd play Muric because he's more dominant and saves more shots. We face so many shots and crosses in games that I feel his strengths more than offset his overt mistakes, meaning we'd concede fewer goals overall with him in the team.
I wouldn't play him because we have a difficult crowd this season. Quiet at home mostly when the players aren't on top, which is most of the time; a minority who are pretty vocal about who* they dislike, which is easily heard amid the quietness. If this were a COVID year, it would be a no-brainer IMO.
*whom [Post edited 30 Jan 17:01]
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| Goalkeeper on 16:26 - Jan 30 with 1119 views | mk_blue |
In my view, going for a new GK now would be looked back on as "fiddling while Rome burns". As has been said in various replies our xG reflects where we are. We need more in the middle of the pitch and need to be able to stamp our authority on more games than we have been able to do so far.
We were very successful last season with Hladky, who in previous seasons was seen as not up to L1 standard. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 17:07 - Jan 30 with 1052 views | Smoresy |
| Goalkeeper on 16:26 - Jan 30 by mk_blue |
In my view, going for a new GK now would be looked back on as "fiddling while Rome burns". As has been said in various replies our xG reflects where we are. We need more in the middle of the pitch and need to be able to stamp our authority on more games than we have been able to do so far.
We were very successful last season with Hladky, who in previous seasons was seen as not up to L1 standard. |
It wouldn't address the big imbalance between chances created and conceded, for sure. 100% with you on midfield being our key weakness. | | | |
| Goalkeeper on 17:20 - Jan 30 with 1010 views | HighgateBlue |
| Goalkeeper on 11:32 - Jan 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Too late unfortunately, but the keeper situation reminds me of when Burley kept changing between Serini and Marshall. |
Burley had lost Richard Wright, whose excellence was a key foundation in allowing us to compete at the top of the Premier League. He lost him to a bigger club, through no fault of anyone's. The response to that situation was less than ideal, with neither Sereni nor Marshall covering themselves in glory, and the changing between the two possibly making matters worse.
This season is a slightly different context. We had a very successful goalkeeper last season to be honest, albeit not one who has yet proven that he could cut it in the Premier League. We surely let him go of our own volition, and I think in that context the stakes are higher in terms of how much criticism of management is fair in the event that the replacement is not up to scratch.
It's right to say that Muric was considered promising and had some good stats in the Premier League. It's also right to say that he's been ousted by the guy that Hladky was deemed better than, just last season. Walton will be 30 this calendar year, so it's not as if he's an incredible up and coming keeper who improved loads and took everyone by surprise.
I find the whole situation very odd, I must say. If you'd told most of us last season that we would spend upwards of £100m on players, several of whom would be bought for more than £10m (and in some cases much more), and yet we would have our Championship reserve goalie in goal against the likes of Man City, Liverpool, and key relegation battles, we would have been more than a little surprised. However much we have affection for Walton and think he's a good egg and a steadyish Eddie.
I don't see any chance of KMac splurging Delap-esque funds on a keeper, and I think that's what would be necessary in order to guarantee an upgrade on Muric.
Maybe I'm being unfair on the League One team. Maybe they all should have stayed, and maybe we wouldn't be very much worse off in terms of points. |  | | |
| Goalkeeper on 08:22 - Feb 2 with 753 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
What a surprise | |
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