| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? 20:48 - Mar 16 with 2747 views | RIPbobby |
Leicester seemed to find a loophole in the rules when they spent big last season. Did the FA close the loophole or does being relegated give us much more wiggle room to rebuild ourselves for another go at the prem in 2 years.
Anyone knowm |  | | |  |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 21:51 - Mar 16 with 2540 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Leicester out manoeuvred the Premier League by submitting their end of year accounts early, before they were under EPL jurisdiction. They therefore avoided any EPL penalties this year. And the EFL has no jurisdiction over them whist they are in the Premier League.
However, if they get relegated, then the EFL will have full jurisdiction over them, and in a position to punish them for 23/24, and also be all over them for any potential (likely) breach of FFP for 23/24 to 25/26.
TDLR - I think they’re screwed with the EFL if they’re in the Championship next season.
As for us, we’re likely to be comfortably within FFP for the past 3 years, and have a significant parachute payment. That’s without any player sales. We’ll be in a good place. |  | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 06:30 - Mar 17 with 2227 views | RIPbobby |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 21:51 - Mar 16 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Leicester out manoeuvred the Premier League by submitting their end of year accounts early, before they were under EPL jurisdiction. They therefore avoided any EPL penalties this year. And the EFL has no jurisdiction over them whist they are in the Premier League.
However, if they get relegated, then the EFL will have full jurisdiction over them, and in a position to punish them for 23/24, and also be all over them for any potential (likely) breach of FFP for 23/24 to 25/26.
TDLR - I think they’re screwed with the EFL if they’re in the Championship next season.
As for us, we’re likely to be comfortably within FFP for the past 3 years, and have a significant parachute payment. That’s without any player sales. We’ll be in a good place. |
That sounds positive then. From memory parachute payment is the end of next season, but only if we don't get promoted. | | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 07:11 - Mar 17 with 2132 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 06:30 - Mar 17 by RIPbobby |
That sounds positive then. From memory parachute payment is the end of next season, but only if we don't get promoted. |
You get it in year 1 (55% of what would have been paid in the EPL), and regardless of whether or not you get promoted at the first attempt. | | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 08:44 - Mar 17 with 1899 views | RIPbobby |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 07:11 - Mar 17 by SuffolkPunchFC |
You get it in year 1 (55% of what would have been paid in the EPL), and regardless of whether or not you get promoted at the first attempt. |
I thought you dont get it if you go straight back up? Last season we were given the parachute payments that Leicester and Southampton would have got, but as they were promoted they didn't. Confused now. Please confirm someone. Phil even put out a post explaining this. Or am I getting my wires crossed? | | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 08:53 - Mar 17 with 1855 views | Herbivore |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 08:44 - Mar 17 by RIPbobby |
I thought you dont get it if you go straight back up? Last season we were given the parachute payments that Leicester and Southampton would have got, but as they were promoted they didn't. Confused now. Please confirm someone. Phil even put out a post explaining this. Or am I getting my wires crossed? |
The parachute payments they would have got in year 2 were divided up as they don't get a parachute payment once back in the Prem. The parachute payments are intended to stop teams struggling financially when back in the Championship so you need them for that first year even if you go straight back up. |  |
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| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 09:01 - Mar 17 with 1812 views | bsw72 |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 07:11 - Mar 17 by SuffolkPunchFC |
You get it in year 1 (55% of what would have been paid in the EPL), and regardless of whether or not you get promoted at the first attempt. |
55%, then 45% and finally 20% year on year of the fixed EPL shared TV revenue. |  | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 09:15 - Mar 17 with 1754 views | bsw72 |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 08:53 - Mar 17 by Herbivore |
The parachute payments they would have got in year 2 were divided up as they don't get a parachute payment once back in the Prem. The parachute payments are intended to stop teams struggling financially when back in the Championship so you need them for that first year even if you go straight back up. |
Hence the 3 years decreasing, they are designed for clubs to run contracts with players on PL wages. They were initially designed back in the days of players getting 2-3 yeard contracts, however PSR rules now mean clubs offer 5 year contracts to get around rules.
It's all a little mis-aligned and out dated, and actually PSR regulations are starting to become a barrier to promoted clubs being able to compete with more established PL sides.
It now works in the favour of the PL, to the point where potentially in the next couple of years, promotion and relegation become a moot point, as promoted sides will not be able to compete, and will lead to the PL arguing that promotion is no longer viable and so become a closed shop with sides "applying" to join the PL, based upon finances etc. | | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 10:22 - Mar 17 with 1644 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 08:44 - Mar 17 by RIPbobby |
I thought you dont get it if you go straight back up? Last season we were given the parachute payments that Leicester and Southampton would have got, but as they were promoted they didn't. Confused now. Please confirm someone. Phil even put out a post explaining this. Or am I getting my wires crossed? |
I think you're getting your wires crossed with solidarity payments that are paid to all EFL clubs *except* those who get parachute payments from relegation.
Southampton and Leicester would definitely have had parachute payments last season, but no solidarity payment. | | | |
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| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 10:49 - Mar 17 with 1591 views | ParisBlue |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 09:01 - Mar 17 by bsw72 |
55%, then 45% and finally 20% year on year of the fixed EPL shared TV revenue. |
I think it's only 2 years parachute payments if you've only been in the PL for one season. 3 years if 2 or more seasons. |  |
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| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 13:14 - Mar 17 with 1453 views | Dennyx4 |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 10:49 - Mar 17 by ParisBlue |
I think it's only 2 years parachute payments if you've only been in the PL for one season. 3 years if 2 or more seasons. |
Correct, only two years parachute payments for one season in the Premier League. |  | | |
| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 16:59 - Mar 17 with 1252 views | Smoresy |
Looking at us only, with no obvious loopholes available, the big unknown is what we've spent on wages this season. Quick recap firstly on previous seasons:
23/24 will be relevant for our 25/26 accounts. My educated guess is that we carry forward a very small surplus here or a modest negative balance. Our declared FFP loss in 21/22 was £6.3m, in 22/23 was £12.4m, and in 23/24 was £XY.Zm, likely with X = 1 (and £13m the permitted average loss).
Back to this season's wages: have we spent north of £100m on staff-related costs, excluding transfer fees and agents' fees? In 22/23, clubs' most recent financial accounts, only one club spent south of £100m: Brentford, £99m. Luton surely bucked this normality in 23/24, but did Burnley or Sheffield United?
Are Norwich a useful benchmark? Not in most things football or life, but in PL expenditure? They spent £89m on staff costs back in 19/20, when they shouldered accusations of lacking ambition; they spent £118m in 21/22, a similarly unadventurous season? They were able to reduce wages and associated costs to £56m in 22/23, without doing much on the player side apart from the natural expiry of loan contracts: relegation wage clauses in action.
We've spent vastly more on transfer fees in 24/25 than Norwich did in 21/22, but has that transferred across to wages also? We won't know accurate figures for two years, but may receive hints from our trading activity this summer. Hopefully our majority-EFL squad has sheltered us from breaking the £100m wages landmark but I'm doubtful.
Meanwhile, we know we've spent roughly £130m on transfer fees, with an average contract length for that outlay of 5 years. That's £25m expenditure in 24/25, £25m in 25/26, etc., until relevant players' contracts are altered due to sale (or extension, to a degree) or they expire.
We know we're due roughly £115m in broadcasting revenue this season, and that we're guaranteed roughly £50m next season. Parachute payments are paid in a Championship season irrespective of performance, as evidence in Norwich's 20/21 accounts, Fulham's 21/22 accounts, Sheffield United's 22/23 accounts, etc. (there's much confusion here online but I'm not sure why, as otherwise all parachute clubs would post huge FFP losses in their promotion season and be subject to penalties later). We know the permitted loss this season is £35m, and next season it's £13m. We know that Nottingham Forest generated £30m from gate receipts and commercial revenue in 22/23: a similar sized club, ground, ticket prices, so forth, in their own return to the top flight after two decades.
If we pencil in total revenue of £145m this season (educated guess), deduct £25m for transfers (known), deduct £115m for staff (speculating that we're in line with Norwich, 21/22, a big guess), that would leave available £40m, for all other PSR-relevant operating costs.
If we pencil in total revenue of £75m next season (£50m central payments, £10m gate receipts, £15m commercial, educated & optimistic guess), deduct £25m for transfers (known), deduct £55m for staff (speculating that we're in line with Norwich, 22/23, an even bigger guess), that would leave available £8m +£last-year's-surplus, for all other FFP-relevant operating costs.
The above demonstrates the importance of staff costs. If our wages are close to Fulham's or Forest's, 22/23 season, we should need to sell players just to avoid failing FFP in 25/26. If we're closer to Norwich in 21/22 or Bournemouth in 22/23, we should be okay for 25/26, but would likely need to sell in order to recruit further. If we're closer to Watford (£80m) or Burnley (£90m) in 21/22, we should be able to make additions without the financial need to sell, providing the owners are willing to cover maximum losses and providing we're comfortable with the FFP risk for future seasons. [Post edited 17 Mar 17:14]
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| What are the PSR rules if we get relegated? on 17:32 - Mar 17 with 1170 views | FrimleyBlue |
Something came out at the beginning of the season about a loan... can't remember what it was exactly.
But what ever it was.. what effect does that have if any? |  |
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