| Starmer's principled positioning .... 09:15 - May 12 with 6241 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
How many highly principled, yet varying, positions on the same subjects is it OK to have?
Asking for a friend. |  |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:27 - May 12 with 2508 views | Whos_blue |
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
Groucho Marx. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:32 - May 12 with 2496 views | Leaky |
Does seem strange Starmer announces a White paper on immigration, soon after a surge in support for Reform. Obviuosly said white paper was planned before local elections. therefore had Starmer realise Reform were gaining in popularaty especially has he cancelled elelections in certain area's |  | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:41 - May 12 with 2467 views | lowhouseblue |
"And look, [the tories] must answer for themselves, but I don’t think you can do something like that by accident. It was a choice. A choice made even as they told you, told the country, they were doing the opposite. A one-nation experiment in open borders conducted on a country that voted for control. Well, no more. Today, this Labour Government is shutting down the lab. The experiment is over. We will deliver what you have asked for – time and again."
by george, i think he's got it. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:41 - May 12 with 2468 views | J2BLUE |
Rightly or wrongly, it's a big issue. If he doesn't do something about it then people concerned by immigration will vote for someone who will.
If this helps keep Farage out of power then I think it's a good thing. |  |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:35 - May 12 with 2370 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
About as principled as being a life long professional protester, saying all this:
“In 1993, he described the “great danger to the cause of socialism in this country or any other country of the imposition of a bankers’ Europe on the people of this country”.
Three years later, he railed against “a European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody,” lamenting that “powers have gone from national parliaments”.
Ahead of Ireland’s 2009 referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, Mr Corbyn said of the EU’s ties with NATO: “We are creating for ourselves here one massive great Frankenstein that will damage all of us in the long run.”
And then campaigning for remain. Career politicians eh… |  | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:46 - May 12 with 2338 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:32 - May 12 by Leaky |
Does seem strange Starmer announces a White paper on immigration, soon after a surge in support for Reform. Obviuosly said white paper was planned before local elections. therefore had Starmer realise Reform were gaining in popularaty especially has he cancelled elelections in certain area's |
Norfolk County Council
Suffolk County Council
Essex County Council
Thurrock
East Sussex
West Sussex
Hampshire
Isle of Wight
Surrey
All elections cancelled, guess Starmer wanted to do Tories a favour. |  |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:47 - May 12 with 2334 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:35 - May 12 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
About as principled as being a life long professional protester, saying all this:
“In 1993, he described the “great danger to the cause of socialism in this country or any other country of the imposition of a bankers’ Europe on the people of this country”.
Three years later, he railed against “a European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody,” lamenting that “powers have gone from national parliaments”.
Ahead of Ireland’s 2009 referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, Mr Corbyn said of the EU’s ties with NATO: “We are creating for ourselves here one massive great Frankenstein that will damage all of us in the long run.”
And then campaigning for remain. Career politicians eh… |
1993 and 1996! Either over thirty years ago or just under 30 years ago?
It’s like people can change their minds over the course of decades - strange. I’ll be more concerned if a politician has never challenged their thoughts and positions on key issues. Staying wedged like cement is as harmful as flip-flopping continuously.
I do feel letdown with him but criticising him for stuff 30 years ago seems a tad desperate.
Edit. Holding my hands up, I didn’t read the post correctly and thought that the poster was taking about KS. It’s about JC - who is thankfully quite irrelevant now. [Post edited 12 May 11:14]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:50 - May 12 with 2335 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:41 - May 12 by J2BLUE |
Rightly or wrongly, it's a big issue. If he doesn't do something about it then people concerned by immigration will vote for someone who will.
If this helps keep Farage out of power then I think it's a good thing. |
This.
Starting to feel really fed up with how ideological the country has become. We’re facing serious challenges, and what’s needed now more than ever is pragmatism and flexibility.
These challenges will only get considerably worse if Reform get anywhere near power. H needs to start showing more flexibility than we’ve seen so far.
E.g. - P1ssing off the wealthiest tax payers in this country to the point they have now left is a good example of him (and her) being so rigidly ideological that it's made things worse. | | | |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:55 - May 12 with 2312 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:50 - May 12 by nrb1985 |
This.
Starting to feel really fed up with how ideological the country has become. We’re facing serious challenges, and what’s needed now more than ever is pragmatism and flexibility.
These challenges will only get considerably worse if Reform get anywhere near power. H needs to start showing more flexibility than we’ve seen so far.
E.g. - P1ssing off the wealthiest tax payers in this country to the point they have now left is a good example of him (and her) being so rigidly ideological that it's made things worse. |
Are you saying that a lot of weathly people have left? Do you have any evidence for this as I’ll be interested in such stats. Thanks. | | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:59 - May 12 with 2303 views | DJR |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:35 - May 12 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
About as principled as being a life long professional protester, saying all this:
“In 1993, he described the “great danger to the cause of socialism in this country or any other country of the imposition of a bankers’ Europe on the people of this country”.
Three years later, he railed against “a European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody,” lamenting that “powers have gone from national parliaments”.
Ahead of Ireland’s 2009 referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, Mr Corbyn said of the EU’s ties with NATO: “We are creating for ourselves here one massive great Frankenstein that will damage all of us in the long run.”
And then campaigning for remain. Career politicians eh… |
I am not quite sure what Corbyn has to do with it anyway but he is one of the last politicians you could describe as being unprincipled.
As it was, he was the leader of a party with a party policy, supporters and MPs that were overwhelmingly in favour of remain. He also faced pretty open rebellion from many of his MPs throughout his leadership, so to think that he could unilaterally have taken a different line is rather fanciful.
As it was, his natural instinct to support the Brexit vote, rather than go along with the futile (and undemocratic) second referendum campaign, would in my view have led to a better Brexit deal. [Post edited 12 May 11:02]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:59 - May 12 with 2298 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:47 - May 12 by MattinLondon |
1993 and 1996! Either over thirty years ago or just under 30 years ago?
It’s like people can change their minds over the course of decades - strange. I’ll be more concerned if a politician has never challenged their thoughts and positions on key issues. Staying wedged like cement is as harmful as flip-flopping continuously.
I do feel letdown with him but criticising him for stuff 30 years ago seems a tad desperate.
Edit. Holding my hands up, I didn’t read the post correctly and thought that the poster was taking about KS. It’s about JC - who is thankfully quite irrelevant now. [Post edited 12 May 11:14]
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Just a selection of quotes - he voted against virtually every EU proposal that went through parliament right up to the referendum. And then suddenly in 2016 he changed his mind when it was his career interest to do so.
I don’t see that Starmer is any more or less principled, I think he’s just reactionary with no long term vision - like most of the useless politicians we’ve been served up in my lifetime. | | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:00 - May 12 with 2295 views | DJR |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:55 - May 12 by MattinLondon |
Are you saying that a lot of weathly people have left? Do you have any evidence for this as I’ll be interested in such stats. Thanks. |
It's in the Telegraph, so it must be true. | | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:05 - May 12 with 2267 views | DJR |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:59 - May 12 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Just a selection of quotes - he voted against virtually every EU proposal that went through parliament right up to the referendum. And then suddenly in 2016 he changed his mind when it was his career interest to do so.
I don’t see that Starmer is any more or less principled, I think he’s just reactionary with no long term vision - like most of the useless politicians we’ve been served up in my lifetime. |
I am not sure Corbyn ever thought he would be Labour leader. Nor did some of those who nominated him. Therefore, to regard him as a careerist is pushing things. [Post edited 12 May 11:06]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:06 - May 12 with 2257 views | J2BLUE |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:05 - May 12 by DJR |
I am not sure Corbyn ever thought he would be Labour leader. Nor did some of those who nominated him. Therefore, to regard him as a careerist is pushing things. [Post edited 12 May 11:06]
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He's just highlighting the hypocrisy of most people when it's someone on 'our side'. | |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:12 - May 12 with 2230 views | DJR |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:06 - May 12 by J2BLUE |
He's just highlighting the hypocrisy of most people when it's someone on 'our side'. |
I am trying to look at things objectively (as I always try to do) given I never voted for Corbyn in the two leadership elections, so I am not sure that the "our side" analogy fits in my case
But I still don't understand what Corbyn has to do with anything given he ceased to be Labour leader nearly six years ago. [Post edited 12 May 11:17]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:24 - May 12 with 2177 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 10:55 - May 12 by MattinLondon |
Are you saying that a lot of weathly people have left? Do you have any evidence for this as I’ll be interested in such stats. Thanks. |
Hi - you're not to know this but my industry is Private Banking for the last 14 years and a lot of that was working with non doms.
A big part of our ecosystem is the likes of PwC and the various tax advisors and private client lawyers who are helping them to restructure their affairs now. It's less the abolishment of the non dom regime (albeit that is an own goal) as much as it is the introduction of the new concept of LTR (long term residency) and the IHT implications that has. That's why Mittal, who had long since deemed domicile, got up and left to the UAE.
We won't get the official figures for a couple of years but anecdotally 70% ish of my clients have left (Switzerland, Italy, UAE and channel islands predominantly) and the likes of PwC who deal with the really big guys and gals tell me that's more like 95%.
I had coffee with a tax advisor last week who said that the fabled Warwick paper estimated that only 10% of non doms would leave (I won't go into the Warwick paper and why it's a crock of poop) but that would have meant only around 700 would leave. He has a boutique practice and with only a couple of hundred clients and around 100 of clients there alone have left...
Again, please don't think this is a look at me post etc but I'm telling you first hand the damage it's doing.
Those with the deepest pockets also have the longest legs... [Post edited 12 May 14:59]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:27 - May 12 with 2157 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:00 - May 12 by DJR |
It's in the Telegraph, so it must be true. |
Your ignorance on this subject a good example of people being ideological rather than pragmatic I would suggest.
P.s. for what it's worth my politics is generally left of center so haven't bought a copy of the Telegraph in my life. | | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:27 - May 12 with 2153 views | DJR |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 09:41 - May 12 by lowhouseblue |
"And look, [the tories] must answer for themselves, but I don’t think you can do something like that by accident. It was a choice. A choice made even as they told you, told the country, they were doing the opposite. A one-nation experiment in open borders conducted on a country that voted for control. Well, no more. Today, this Labour Government is shutting down the lab. The experiment is over. We will deliver what you have asked for – time and again."
by george, i think he's got it. |
A commentator this morning said it was a return to the system in operation before Boris Johnson got involved.
The particular concern for me is social care given my mother depended on, and my mother-in-law currently depends on, care workers who are virtually all immigrants.
Of course, it might be fine with a properly funded care system that is attractive to British workers, but that has been kicked into the long grass. | | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:43 - May 12 with 2077 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:24 - May 12 by nrb1985 |
Hi - you're not to know this but my industry is Private Banking for the last 14 years and a lot of that was working with non doms.
A big part of our ecosystem is the likes of PwC and the various tax advisors and private client lawyers who are helping them to restructure their affairs now. It's less the abolishment of the non dom regime (albeit that is an own goal) as much as it is the introduction of the new concept of LTR (long term residency) and the IHT implications that has. That's why Mittal, who had long since deemed domicile, got up and left to the UAE.
We won't get the official figures for a couple of years but anecdotally 70% ish of my clients have left (Switzerland, Italy, UAE and channel islands predominantly) and the likes of PwC who deal with the really big guys and gals tell me that's more like 95%.
I had coffee with a tax advisor last week who said that the fabled Warwick paper estimated that only 10% of non doms would leave (I won't go into the Warwick paper and why it's a crock of poop) but that would have meant only around 700 would leave. He has a boutique practice and with only a couple of hundred clients and around 100 of clients there alone have left...
Again, please don't think this is a look at me post etc but I'm telling you first hand the damage it's doing.
Those with the deepest pockets also have the longest legs... [Post edited 12 May 14:59]
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Those with the deepest pockets also have the longest legs...and the shortest arms to dig into their pockets to pay tax.
Pardon my amateur question - I’m guessing that non-Dom’s are non-Dom’s because they don’t want to pay UK tax on their wealth. What exactly is the UK missing out on if they move full-time elsewhere? | | | |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 12:02 - May 12 with 2034 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:43 - May 12 by MattinLondon |
Those with the deepest pockets also have the longest legs...and the shortest arms to dig into their pockets to pay tax.
Pardon my amateur question - I’m guessing that non-Dom’s are non-Dom’s because they don’t want to pay UK tax on their wealth. What exactly is the UK missing out on if they move full-time elsewhere? |
Sorry this is going so sound awful but that is an absolutely shocking level of ignorance. However I don’t blame you, left wing media and politicians have demonized these people for years now and willfully pedal non truths. Gary Stephenson and the like are as bad as Farage imo for this.
Domicile has had nothing to do with tax. Generally you have the domicile of your father - usually based on their nationality. HMRC has strict tests on this if you’re unsure. So basically, it’s foreigners living in the UK (my clients include footballers, people in the music industry as well as entrepreneurs and successful professionals)
What does the UK lose? Nothing except £8bn a year in tax revenues…sure nobody will notice though. These people pay a huge amount of tax in a given year - more than you or me put together will ever pay in a lifetime. [Post edited 12 May 15:00]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 12:04 - May 12 with 2019 views | DJR |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:27 - May 12 by nrb1985 |
Your ignorance on this subject a good example of people being ideological rather than pragmatic I would suggest.
P.s. for what it's worth my politics is generally left of center so haven't bought a copy of the Telegraph in my life. |
The thing is I do dip into the Telegraph so know the issue of non-doms is one they have been highlighting.
The fact, though, is that before the changes (which the Tories started), non-doms were treated very favourably from a tax point of view.
They are now being treated less favourably (although Reeves announced an easing of the new rules in January) but, even if many leave, the question is whether the tax-take overall is higher or lower than before non-doms were brought into tax.
Both the October and March OBR reports estimate an increase in the tax-take. [Post edited 12 May 12:20]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:05 - May 12 with 2018 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:43 - May 12 by MattinLondon |
Those with the deepest pockets also have the longest legs...and the shortest arms to dig into their pockets to pay tax.
Pardon my amateur question - I’m guessing that non-Dom’s are non-Dom’s because they don’t want to pay UK tax on their wealth. What exactly is the UK missing out on if they move full-time elsewhere? |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 12:05 - May 12 with 2016 views | lowhouseblue |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:27 - May 12 by DJR |
A commentator this morning said it was a return to the system in operation before Boris Johnson got involved.
The particular concern for me is social care given my mother depended on, and my mother-in-law currently depends on, care workers who are virtually all immigrants.
Of course, it might be fine with a properly funded care system that is attractive to British workers, but that has been kicked into the long grass. |
trouble is that the care visa route has also been one which has sen high levels of abuse. hundreds of sponsors have been barred for operating fraudulently. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 12:21 - May 12 with 1933 views | nrb1985 |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 12:04 - May 12 by DJR |
The thing is I do dip into the Telegraph so know the issue of non-doms is one they have been highlighting.
The fact, though, is that before the changes (which the Tories started), non-doms were treated very favourably from a tax point of view.
They are now being treated less favourably (although Reeves announced an easing of the new rules in January) but, even if many leave, the question is whether the tax-take overall is higher or lower than before non-doms were brought into tax.
Both the October and March OBR reports estimate an increase in the tax-take. [Post edited 12 May 12:20]
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Please let me know how you increase tax take if there’s 50-70% less people to tax when the original paper the govt based their policy on estimated only 10% would leave?
Utterly delusional (them not you). [Post edited 12 May 15:00]
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| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 13:06 - May 12 with 1835 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer's principled positioning .... on 11:27 - May 12 by DJR |
A commentator this morning said it was a return to the system in operation before Boris Johnson got involved.
The particular concern for me is social care given my mother depended on, and my mother-in-law currently depends on, care workers who are virtually all immigrants.
Of course, it might be fine with a properly funded care system that is attractive to British workers, but that has been kicked into the long grass. |
That's the nubs of it isn't it. Let's face it, no policies will be introduced to encourage proper training and pay to make caring (and other such professions) a valued and attractive profession for our unemployed.
This is just another example of Starmer going where the wind blows and it will continue to blow him further to the right because he has no foundations. | |
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