| Well, well, well! 23:38 - Oct 21 with 4589 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/21/police-intelligence-on-extreme-m
Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters were banned from watching their game against Aston Villa after police intelligence concluded the biggest risk of violence came from extremist fans of the Israeli club.
According to sources, police intelligence said:
Scores of extreme Maccabi fans with a past history of violence and shouting “racist taunts” were expected to travel to the Birmingham game.
Dutch police told their British counterparts that the Maccabi fans had instigated trouble in Amsterdam at a game last year.
They had randomly picked Muslims in Amsterdam to attack. That led to reprisal violence with some Dutch Jews attacked.
A huge Dutch police effort, involving 5,000 officers across three days, was needed to quell the trouble.
A community impact assessment by West Midlands police recorded that some Jewish people wanted the Maccabi fans banned because of the trouble that might ensue if they attended.
Any trouble started by Maccabi fans attending the Birmingham game could lead to reprisals from local people and further trouble.
The process did not consider whether the ban on fans of the Israeli club could be criticised as antisemitic itself or surrendering to antisemitism.
The ban on Maccabi fans was made by Birmingham’s Safety Advisory Group. It was decided after an intelligence assessment was conducted by West Midlands police, shared with the national UK football policing unit.
The UK football policing unit is understood to have backed the conclusions reached by local police.
|  |
| |  |
| Well, well, well! on 07:58 - Oct 22 with 3142 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
There's more context here...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/21/standing-with-maccabis-foo
'Like Robinson, Maccabi attracts a fervid following of young men from the far right, who gather at weekends to chant racist and anti-Arab slogans. Like Robinson’s disciples, Maccabi’s fans have occasionally been known to indulge in a little light violence. A decade ago Maccabi fans unveiled a banner reading “refugees (not) welcome”, a refrain with which you can imagine the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon nodding heartily along.
Then there was Maharan Radi, the Israeli international midfielder who after signing for the team was greeted with racist slurs and death threats by members of the Maccabi Fanatics, the club’s ultra group. Anti-Arab graffiti began to appear in the city. Later, many years after leaving the club, Radi would testify that some of his teammates had tried to mediate with some of the more hard-line supporters. A few days later, Radi said, they reported back. “There’s nothing we can do,” they told him. “They just hate Arabs.”
'The point here is that to treat this as your common or garden football hooliganism threat is to miss the point. Rather, it is the prospect of targeted, politicised footballing violence that renders this particular case so potentially toxic. Violence of the sort seen in Amsterdam late last year, when travelling fans and local thugs fought in the streets, far from the Johan Cruyff Arena where Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv were playing. Israeli fans, an Arab taxi driver and pro-Palestinian protesters were all targeted and subjected to lawless violence.' | |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 18:10 - Oct 22 with 2981 views | DJR |
| Well, well, well! on 07:58 - Oct 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
There's more context here...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/21/standing-with-maccabis-foo
'Like Robinson, Maccabi attracts a fervid following of young men from the far right, who gather at weekends to chant racist and anti-Arab slogans. Like Robinson’s disciples, Maccabi’s fans have occasionally been known to indulge in a little light violence. A decade ago Maccabi fans unveiled a banner reading “refugees (not) welcome”, a refrain with which you can imagine the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon nodding heartily along.
Then there was Maharan Radi, the Israeli international midfielder who after signing for the team was greeted with racist slurs and death threats by members of the Maccabi Fanatics, the club’s ultra group. Anti-Arab graffiti began to appear in the city. Later, many years after leaving the club, Radi would testify that some of his teammates had tried to mediate with some of the more hard-line supporters. A few days later, Radi said, they reported back. “There’s nothing we can do,” they told him. “They just hate Arabs.”
'The point here is that to treat this as your common or garden football hooliganism threat is to miss the point. Rather, it is the prospect of targeted, politicised footballing violence that renders this particular case so potentially toxic. Violence of the sort seen in Amsterdam late last year, when travelling fans and local thugs fought in the streets, far from the Johan Cruyff Arena where Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv were playing. Israeli fans, an Arab taxi driver and pro-Palestinian protesters were all targeted and subjected to lawless violence.' |
EDIT: wrong place for post. [Post edited 22 Oct 18:12]
|  | | |
| Well, well, well! on 18:13 - Oct 22 with 2954 views | DJR |
The OP appears to support the view I expressed on here that it was unwise for politicians to pontificate on operational police matters. | | | |
| Well, well, well! on 18:18 - Oct 22 with 2914 views | phillymark |
I have little problem with the policy (though I think it was announced poorly)
Words matter
“Dutch police told their British counterparts that the Maccabi fans had instigated trouble in Amsterdam at a game last year.
They had randomly picked Muslims in Amsterdam to attack. That led to reprisal violence with some Dutch Jews attacked.”
The Israeli hooligans “picked Muslims” and “some Dutch Jews (were) attacked”
Why the “some”? Why not “some” for the “picked Muslims”
This might sound petty but it just makes it sound like the attacks on Jews were minor. They weren’t. |  | | |
| Well, well, well! on 18:45 - Oct 22 with 2802 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 18:18 - Oct 22 by phillymark |
I have little problem with the policy (though I think it was announced poorly)
Words matter
“Dutch police told their British counterparts that the Maccabi fans had instigated trouble in Amsterdam at a game last year.
They had randomly picked Muslims in Amsterdam to attack. That led to reprisal violence with some Dutch Jews attacked.”
The Israeli hooligans “picked Muslims” and “some Dutch Jews (were) attacked”
Why the “some”? Why not “some” for the “picked Muslims”
This might sound petty but it just makes it sound like the attacks on Jews were minor. They weren’t. |
The whole article linked from the Guardian seems to be from unattributed sources with no links to the report. It's also completely at odds with what was found in the review by the Dutch police watchdog which clearly states maccabi fans, Jews and Jewish symbols were targeted in pre-planned coordinated attacks.
https://nltimes.nl/2025/06/16/dutch-watchdog-rules-police-lost-control-ajax-macc
"In multiple incidents, authorities allegedly lost track of where the unrest was unfolding. Demonstrators moved rapidly between locations, targeting Jewish symbols and venues near the stadium, including the Orthodox synagogue and the kosher restaurant HaCarmel. In one instance, officers abandoned efforts to contain the chaos and focused on “preserving their own safety,” the report said.
"Around the time of the match, Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and people perceived to be Jewish were threatened, intimidated, and in some cases assaulted at multiple locations across Amsterdam. Despite these incidents, city authorities shared no formal public updates between 1:40 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. the following morning, according to a separate report by the COT Institute for Safety and Crisis Management".
"In a letter to the city council, Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema said the city’s safety triangle—comprising the mayor, police chief, and chief prosecutor—recognized the report's conclusions and accepted its nine recommendations. She emphasized that while it is essential to learn from the events, expectations must remain realistic."
Also, the official report from Amsterdam police and municipality confirms 62 arrests during the Ajax-Maccabi Tel Aviv clashes: 49 Dutch nationals,10 Israelis & 3 nationality unidentified. It also reports five injuries, all to Israelis. This shows disproportionate targeting of Jewish supporters amid antisemitic attacks
All people need to do is look at the prosecutions and convictions handed down in Dutch courts. An antisemitic attack planned on whatsapp long before the match day is not “reprisals” by an aggressed community.
Another unattributed quote from the Guardian: "
“The biggest risk was always the extreme Maccabi fans who want to fight".
Who wrote the report? A five year old? I smell a rat. How long before the Guardian publishes one of its legendary corrections?
edit. Ah I see where this "report" has come from.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15205485/Hezbollah-fighter-Israeli-fans [Post edited 22 Oct 19:25]
|  |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 18:48 - Oct 22 with 2796 views | DJR |
| Well, well, well! on 18:18 - Oct 22 by phillymark |
I have little problem with the policy (though I think it was announced poorly)
Words matter
“Dutch police told their British counterparts that the Maccabi fans had instigated trouble in Amsterdam at a game last year.
They had randomly picked Muslims in Amsterdam to attack. That led to reprisal violence with some Dutch Jews attacked.”
The Israeli hooligans “picked Muslims” and “some Dutch Jews (were) attacked”
Why the “some”? Why not “some” for the “picked Muslims”
This might sound petty but it just makes it sound like the attacks on Jews were minor. They weren’t. |
I fully understand and sympathise with what you are saying but it is a newspaper report.
Ideally we'd see the actual report but I rather doubt that will happen especially as it seems to run counter to the Government narrative.
For my own part, I think that Maccabi Tel Aviv declining tickets was the best outcome. [Post edited 22 Oct 22:08]
| | | |
| Well, well, well! on 18:54 - Oct 22 with 2734 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 18:48 - Oct 22 by DJR |
I fully understand and sympathise with what you are saying but it is a newspaper report.
Ideally we'd see the actual report but I rather doubt that will happen especially as it seems to run counter to the Government narrative.
For my own part, I think that Maccabi Tel Aviv declining tickets was the best outcome. [Post edited 22 Oct 22:08]
|
I would imagine the government has seen the report. If it is what the Guardian are claiming then why would the Prime Minister, Home Secretary and Minister for Sport go out on a limb the way they have? It doesn't make sense. [Post edited 22 Oct 19:27]
| |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 20:25 - Oct 22 with 2560 views | J2BLUE |
| Well, well, well! on 18:45 - Oct 22 by GlasgowBlue |
The whole article linked from the Guardian seems to be from unattributed sources with no links to the report. It's also completely at odds with what was found in the review by the Dutch police watchdog which clearly states maccabi fans, Jews and Jewish symbols were targeted in pre-planned coordinated attacks.
https://nltimes.nl/2025/06/16/dutch-watchdog-rules-police-lost-control-ajax-macc
"In multiple incidents, authorities allegedly lost track of where the unrest was unfolding. Demonstrators moved rapidly between locations, targeting Jewish symbols and venues near the stadium, including the Orthodox synagogue and the kosher restaurant HaCarmel. In one instance, officers abandoned efforts to contain the chaos and focused on “preserving their own safety,” the report said.
"Around the time of the match, Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and people perceived to be Jewish were threatened, intimidated, and in some cases assaulted at multiple locations across Amsterdam. Despite these incidents, city authorities shared no formal public updates between 1:40 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. the following morning, according to a separate report by the COT Institute for Safety and Crisis Management".
"In a letter to the city council, Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema said the city’s safety triangle—comprising the mayor, police chief, and chief prosecutor—recognized the report's conclusions and accepted its nine recommendations. She emphasized that while it is essential to learn from the events, expectations must remain realistic."
Also, the official report from Amsterdam police and municipality confirms 62 arrests during the Ajax-Maccabi Tel Aviv clashes: 49 Dutch nationals,10 Israelis & 3 nationality unidentified. It also reports five injuries, all to Israelis. This shows disproportionate targeting of Jewish supporters amid antisemitic attacks
All people need to do is look at the prosecutions and convictions handed down in Dutch courts. An antisemitic attack planned on whatsapp long before the match day is not “reprisals” by an aggressed community.
Another unattributed quote from the Guardian: "
“The biggest risk was always the extreme Maccabi fans who want to fight".
Who wrote the report? A five year old? I smell a rat. How long before the Guardian publishes one of its legendary corrections?
edit. Ah I see where this "report" has come from.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15205485/Hezbollah-fighter-Israeli-fans [Post edited 22 Oct 19:25]
|
Who cares? It's blaming the right people and Bankster couldn't contain his excitement. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Well, well, well! on 21:51 - Oct 22 with 2400 views | DJR |
| Well, well, well! on 18:54 - Oct 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I would imagine the government has seen the report. If it is what the Guardian are claiming then why would the Prime Minister, Home Secretary and Minister for Sport go out on a limb the way they have? It doesn't make sense. [Post edited 22 Oct 19:27]
|
The curious thing for me is that there could be a debate on the issue in Parliament without the contents of the report being disclosed.
That's not how things normally work. [Post edited 22 Oct 21:52]
| | | |
| Well, well, well! on 22:11 - Oct 22 with 2282 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well, well, well! on 20:25 - Oct 22 by J2BLUE |
Who cares? It's blaming the right people and Bankster couldn't contain his excitement. |
You seem to be projecting AGAIN. You must have missed my comment in another thread where I said they should be able to come. Same to your up voters too although I know for sure that at least one will have read my comment. | |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 23:33 - Oct 22 with 2112 views | Swansea_Blue |
When you read the summary report* about the Amsterdam attacks you can see why the safety advisory group thingy whatever they’re called were nervous. It overwhelmed the police and local authority’s capacity and you’d need thousands of police to be confident of containing any trouble IF it broke out in a similar way. Through no fault of the majority of Maccabi fans, it’s a potential lightning rod for trouble (as mirrored by the arguments on here).
Not that it’s going to be plain sailing anyway, as of course our National Facist in Residence, Yaxley-Lennon, is mobilising his troops by the sounds of it and pro-Palestine protests are planned. I’d advise giving Aston and maybe even central Brum a wide berth on 6th November.
It may even be SYL’s intentions to stain the event that led to Maccabi Tel Aviv deciding to refuse any tickets if offered, if you believe this report (I’ve no idea if it’s true) - https://metro.co.uk/2025/10/21/tommy-robinson-threat-forced-maccabi-tel-aviv-cha
* it’s here https://www.inspectie-jenv.nl/documenten/2025/06/16/summary-of-the-report-distur
Only the summary report is in English, but if your Dutch is good you can read the full report. It focussed on the police response rather than the events and shows how difficult it was to deal with what went on. [Post edited 23 Oct 10:25]
|  |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 09:50 - Oct 23 with 1855 views | DJR |
| Well, well, well! on 23:33 - Oct 22 by Swansea_Blue |
When you read the summary report* about the Amsterdam attacks you can see why the safety advisory group thingy whatever they’re called were nervous. It overwhelmed the police and local authority’s capacity and you’d need thousands of police to be confident of containing any trouble IF it broke out in a similar way. Through no fault of the majority of Maccabi fans, it’s a potential lightning rod for trouble (as mirrored by the arguments on here).
Not that it’s going to be plain sailing anyway, as of course our National Facist in Residence, Yaxley-Lennon, is mobilising his troops by the sounds of it and pro-Palestine protests are planned. I’d advise giving Aston and maybe even central Brum a wide berth on 6th November.
It may even be SYL’s intentions to stain the event that led to Maccabi Tel Aviv deciding to refuse any tickets if offered, if you believe this report (I’ve no idea if it’s true) - https://metro.co.uk/2025/10/21/tommy-robinson-threat-forced-maccabi-tel-aviv-cha
* it’s here https://www.inspectie-jenv.nl/documenten/2025/06/16/summary-of-the-report-distur
Only the summary report is in English, but if your Dutch is good you can read the full report. It focussed on the police response rather than the events and shows how difficult it was to deal with what went on. [Post edited 23 Oct 10:25]
|
Another issue I read about is that there are no direct flights from Israel to Birmingham.
It would seem to me that had the Maccabi fans been allowed, there would have to have been put in place the most extensive security measure for a football game in the UK ever. But that would in my view have almost meant it ceased to be a sporting event. | | | |
| Well, well, well! on 10:04 - Oct 23 with 1806 views | lowhouseblue |
| Well, well, well! on 18:45 - Oct 22 by GlasgowBlue |
The whole article linked from the Guardian seems to be from unattributed sources with no links to the report. It's also completely at odds with what was found in the review by the Dutch police watchdog which clearly states maccabi fans, Jews and Jewish symbols were targeted in pre-planned coordinated attacks.
https://nltimes.nl/2025/06/16/dutch-watchdog-rules-police-lost-control-ajax-macc
"In multiple incidents, authorities allegedly lost track of where the unrest was unfolding. Demonstrators moved rapidly between locations, targeting Jewish symbols and venues near the stadium, including the Orthodox synagogue and the kosher restaurant HaCarmel. In one instance, officers abandoned efforts to contain the chaos and focused on “preserving their own safety,” the report said.
"Around the time of the match, Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and people perceived to be Jewish were threatened, intimidated, and in some cases assaulted at multiple locations across Amsterdam. Despite these incidents, city authorities shared no formal public updates between 1:40 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. the following morning, according to a separate report by the COT Institute for Safety and Crisis Management".
"In a letter to the city council, Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema said the city’s safety triangle—comprising the mayor, police chief, and chief prosecutor—recognized the report's conclusions and accepted its nine recommendations. She emphasized that while it is essential to learn from the events, expectations must remain realistic."
Also, the official report from Amsterdam police and municipality confirms 62 arrests during the Ajax-Maccabi Tel Aviv clashes: 49 Dutch nationals,10 Israelis & 3 nationality unidentified. It also reports five injuries, all to Israelis. This shows disproportionate targeting of Jewish supporters amid antisemitic attacks
All people need to do is look at the prosecutions and convictions handed down in Dutch courts. An antisemitic attack planned on whatsapp long before the match day is not “reprisals” by an aggressed community.
Another unattributed quote from the Guardian: "
“The biggest risk was always the extreme Maccabi fans who want to fight".
Who wrote the report? A five year old? I smell a rat. How long before the Guardian publishes one of its legendary corrections?
edit. Ah I see where this "report" has come from.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15205485/Hezbollah-fighter-Israeli-fans [Post edited 22 Oct 19:25]
|
if it is true that a public body based it's decision on a report from that source then that's even more shocking than the rest of it. if that's the way policing decisions are made david blunkett won't have much trouble discovering what is wrong with police culture. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 10:27 - Oct 23 with 1708 views | lowhouseblue |
following euro 24 uefa sanctioned serbia, croatia, romania, slovenia, austria, hungaria and albania for racist chanting by their fans. are all fans from those countries to be banned from travelling to the uk? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 10:30 - Oct 23 with 1681 views | Swansea_Blue |
Shouldn't be any surprise. We live in increasingly fractured times. Racist chants up significantly at English matches too. Racism, antisemitisim, islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, all up everywhere you look.
That's not meant as whataboutery. We just seem to be sliding into a new era of hatred that's extremely concerning. A lot of it being driven by the spread of division and mis/disinformation on social media.
#BeKind | |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 10:35 - Oct 23 with 1635 views | StokieBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 10:27 - Oct 23 by lowhouseblue |
following euro 24 uefa sanctioned serbia, croatia, romania, slovenia, austria, hungaria and albania for racist chanting by their fans. are all fans from those countries to be banned from travelling to the uk? |
Where have I made any comment about that?
I've posted a report from an organisation for some added context to the thread that people may wish to see and debate.
SB [Post edited 23 Oct 10:35]
|  | | |
| Well, well, well! on 10:38 - Oct 23 with 1596 views | lowhouseblue |
| Well, well, well! on 10:35 - Oct 23 by StokieBlue |
Where have I made any comment about that?
I've posted a report from an organisation for some added context to the thread that people may wish to see and debate.
SB [Post edited 23 Oct 10:35]
|
where have i suggested that you made any comment about that?
i've posted information and a question to add context to the thread and to the link you posted that people may wish to see and debate. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 10:55 - Oct 23 with 1467 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 10:35 - Oct 23 by StokieBlue |
Where have I made any comment about that?
I've posted a report from an organisation for some added context to the thread that people may wish to see and debate.
SB [Post edited 23 Oct 10:35]
|
I'm not sure where the context is in regards to their fans being banned from travelling to a European football match. Celtic have received numerous fines both in Scotland and in Europe for singing pro IRA and sectarian songs. No one is suggesting they should be banned. | |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 10:58 - Oct 23 with 1433 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 10:38 - Oct 23 by lowhouseblue |
where have i suggested that you made any comment about that?
i've posted information and a question to add context to the thread and to the link you posted that people may wish to see and debate. |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50060759
"On 20 April 2013, halfway through a match, fans of Levski Sofia unveiled a banner wishing Adolf Hitler a happy birthday.
And last year the club was fined after photos from the Bulgarian cup final showed a child making a Nazi salute, alongside another with a swastika drawn on his chest".
But Israel. It's an obsession. | |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 10:58 - Oct 23 with 1428 views | StokieBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 10:55 - Oct 23 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm not sure where the context is in regards to their fans being banned from travelling to a European football match. Celtic have received numerous fines both in Scotland and in Europe for singing pro IRA and sectarian songs. No one is suggesting they should be banned. |
The discussion is around Maccabi and Hapoel. The report was in the news today cites Maccabi so it's extra context around the club. I'm not sure why people would be against extra information but I'll not bother next time given it seems collating as much data as possible isn't valued.
SB | | | |
| Well, well, well! on 11:22 - Oct 23 with 1348 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Well, well, well! on 10:30 - Oct 23 by Swansea_Blue |
Shouldn't be any surprise. We live in increasingly fractured times. Racist chants up significantly at English matches too. Racism, antisemitisim, islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, all up everywhere you look.
That's not meant as whataboutery. We just seem to be sliding into a new era of hatred that's extremely concerning. A lot of it being driven by the spread of division and mis/disinformation on social media.
#BeKind |
Your comment is at odds with one of the concluding paragraphs in the article linked by SB which you have replied to:
"A growth in racism at Israeli grounds is at odds with broader trends in Europe, according to Piara Powar, the executive director of the Fare network, which monitors racist activity at football matches across the continent. “In the European context, and indeed in a global environment, it’s difficult to say that discrimination is going up as a whole,” he said." |  | | |
| Well, well, well! on 11:25 - Oct 23 with 1331 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Well, well, well! on 10:58 - Oct 23 by StokieBlue |
The discussion is around Maccabi and Hapoel. The report was in the news today cites Maccabi so it's extra context around the club. I'm not sure why people would be against extra information but I'll not bother next time given it seems collating as much data as possible isn't valued.
SB |
It's the wrong sort of data though, isn't it?
Data which goes against one's entrenched beliefs is rarely welcome for anyone. [Post edited 23 Oct 11:26]
| | | |
| Well, well, well! on 11:37 - Oct 23 with 1264 views | lowhouseblue |
| Well, well, well! on 11:25 - Oct 23 by Cafe_Newman |
It's the wrong sort of data though, isn't it?
Data which goes against one's entrenched beliefs is rarely welcome for anyone. [Post edited 23 Oct 11:26]
|
as has been pointed out, similar 'data' exists for many groups of fans, but it has never led to a ban on those fans travelling. yet strangely the data is significant on this one occasion. is the answer something to do with entrenched beliefs? [Post edited 23 Oct 11:39]
| |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Well, well, well! on 11:48 - Oct 23 with 1211 views | StokieBlue |
| Well, well, well! on 11:37 - Oct 23 by lowhouseblue |
as has been pointed out, similar 'data' exists for many groups of fans, but it has never led to a ban on those fans travelling. yet strangely the data is significant on this one occasion. is the answer something to do with entrenched beliefs? [Post edited 23 Oct 11:39]
|
There is no agenda here, I saw that article this morning and thought extra studies are never a bad thing. I never said it was significant or even important, it's a study which cites a club being discussed.
I'm getting pretty annoyed at the insinuations being made here.
SB | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
