| Three points off second. 22:58 - Nov 28 with 3778 views | jasondozzell |
Team has improved a lot since tricky start to season.
We'll no doubt strengthen in Jan.
Just enjoy getting behind them! |  | | |  |
| Three points off second. on 09:34 - Nov 29 with 795 views | jasondozzell |
| Three points off second. on 09:22 - Nov 29 by TownieRob |
We had a tally up on the way home. We’ve played 18 games across league and cup, and in our view we’ve been average or sub-par in 11 of them, including four of the last five. So no, that’s not improvement or development. Most of the wins this season have come from moments of individual brilliance, which you’d expect given the transfer fees involved. Again, that’s not evidence of progression.
And without going over the top, which is very possible given how tired I am, I honestly don’t see how he suddenly gets a tune out of this group when he hasn’t managed to so far. To be clear, my opinion is that this isn't on McKenna solely, unless he's 100% responsible for recruitment (which I can't believe or want to believe he is). This is where I lay the blame.
Anyway, up and down and all that. |
Sub par in 11? Doing pretty well to be 3 points off second then...
I get the frustration but it's just football. The last time we were there we had absolute idiots in the away end throwing toys out of the pram and screaming abuse at players because we lost and had a couple of draws before. Plus ca change. Look at how that ended.
This season for a number of reasons was never going to be a repeat of 23/24 either.
We will be more than okay. We've just been unbeaten in 6 and won three away in a row before last night!
Up or down. Exactly. | | | |
| Three points off second. on 09:42 - Nov 29 with 769 views | TownieRob |
| Three points off second. on 09:34 - Nov 29 by jasondozzell |
Sub par in 11? Doing pretty well to be 3 points off second then...
I get the frustration but it's just football. The last time we were there we had absolute idiots in the away end throwing toys out of the pram and screaming abuse at players because we lost and had a couple of draws before. Plus ca change. Look at how that ended.
This season for a number of reasons was never going to be a repeat of 23/24 either.
We will be more than okay. We've just been unbeaten in 6 and won three away in a row before last night!
Up or down. Exactly. |
Exactly, that’s how poor the league is this year. In any normal season we’d be miles off it.
Brum, Bromley, PNE, Derby, Bristol City, Charlton, West Brom, Watford, Wrexham, Hull (bar about 10 minutes), Oxford… that’s just off the top of my head this morning.
I genuinely admire your positivity, I really do. I think it’s nuts and we clearly have very different levels of expectation and acceptance of sub-standard performances but yes, I admire it all the same.
P.s - There is always a small part of me that thinks you're on a wind up to get bites. |  | | |
| Three points off second. on 09:49 - Nov 29 with 760 views | jasondozzell |
| Three points off second. on 09:42 - Nov 29 by TownieRob |
Exactly, that’s how poor the league is this year. In any normal season we’d be miles off it.
Brum, Bromley, PNE, Derby, Bristol City, Charlton, West Brom, Watford, Wrexham, Hull (bar about 10 minutes), Oxford… that’s just off the top of my head this morning.
I genuinely admire your positivity, I really do. I think it’s nuts and we clearly have very different levels of expectation and acceptance of sub-standard performances but yes, I admire it all the same.
P.s - There is always a small part of me that thinks you're on a wind up to get bites. |
Thank you.
I promise I am not a wind up. I'm just a Town fan.
Check my posts from years gone by if needed!
Let's see how it all plays out. Compared to the horror of the Evans era end it's still a novelty to have a team that engages people! | | | |
| Three points off second. on 10:51 - Nov 29 with 718 views | Herbivore |
| Three points off second. on 09:42 - Nov 29 by TownieRob |
Exactly, that’s how poor the league is this year. In any normal season we’d be miles off it.
Brum, Bromley, PNE, Derby, Bristol City, Charlton, West Brom, Watford, Wrexham, Hull (bar about 10 minutes), Oxford… that’s just off the top of my head this morning.
I genuinely admire your positivity, I really do. I think it’s nuts and we clearly have very different levels of expectation and acceptance of sub-standard performances but yes, I admire it all the same.
P.s - There is always a small part of me that thinks you're on a wind up to get bites. |
Thought we played well against Watford, the finishing wasn't there which is frustrating, but we largely battered them. Hull was a good away performance overall against a side with a good home record. First half was very scrappy but we improved after the break and put them away comfortably in the end. |  |
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| Three points off second. on 11:11 - Nov 29 with 699 views | Esseeja |
| Three points off second. on 09:09 - Nov 29 by Herbivore |
How does our record look if we decide to randomly discount our four defeats instead? We've been very frustrating this season and last night was a microcosm of the issues that have made it a frustrating season. Before that we were unbeaten in 6 and our record since the end of the transfer window has been decent. We need to improve and be more clinical in the final third but there have been signs of improvement prior to last night. This place loses all sense of perspective on a result by result basis. |
I decided to ATTEMPT to calculate (because I'm probably wrong) the last 10 seasons' average ppg needed for 6th, and 2nd.
Like I said, cherry-picked because it's obviously not fair to judge on cherry picks for the entire season, but I found it worrying.
In the last 10 seasons, you have needed an average of 1.6 points per game for 6th (73.5 (74 rounded up) points average), and 1.97 points per game (91 points average) for 2nd.
Removing both the 4 losses and the 4 games we scored by 3 or more goals:
9 played
15 points
12 scored
7 conceded
+5 GD
1.67 points per game, which is 0.07 more than what you need for playoffs if that is your expectation.
But if we only removed the 4 losses instead, that's an easy job, same amount of points in less games, but it makes it look like we are world beaters in comparison to what I cherry-picked, as I thought, and still think, it's more relevant to how poor we are in the final third.
Anyway...
13 games
27 points
27 goals
10 conceded
+17 GD
2.07 points per game, 0.1 more than what you need for 2nd.
The reason I removed the 4 games we scored 3 or more goals in rather than both of these, is because my thinking is it's papering over the cracks as to how much lacks in quality chances and finishing. We are so poor in the final third, and are so defensively soft in key moments/transitions.
When we played Sheffield United, Norwich, and Swansea at a time when all of these clubs were a right mess at the time. For the most part, they still are. If we actually failed to win in any of those 3 games, then there would have been serious questions McKenna would need to be having with himself and his staff.
My thinking is that those 3 of 4 wins have papered over the cracks, it's probably fairer to include the QPR result as there were no unforseem circumstances with QPR, they were simply suffering from a natural drop in form as all mid-table teams will do. We know that more than anyone. The only reason I didn't is because of consistency in emitting a statistic.
Once we play Wednesday, we'll probably have more of an increase in our goal difference. It would be unfathomable if we dropped points to them in any capacity. We almost giftrapped Southampton all 6 points last season if not for Morsy's late deflection equaliser.
So, I still have genuine concerns about how our season has progressed so far. I'm not even sure if we HAVE improved where we needed to. We giftrapped Oxford those goals the same way we did against Derby, but we actually deserved more than a draw against Derby than we did against Oxford.
In fact, the last 3 games have made me question things a lot. Every time we come back from an international break this season, we lose all of our progression. It's like we are back for a new season with a new team every time.
After this break, we have missed all of those chances against Wrexham, thus, failing to score only the 2nd time this season (which is a good statistic to read).
Then, we spend 70 minutes against Hull offering absolutely nothing with all of the ball, not needing to defend our goal mind you, before we scored out of nowhere after their defender missed his header. After that the floodgates opened in that game and we honestly could have scored more than just 2 goals.
Then, in our next game, we poorly gift Oxford 2 goals, just like we gifted Derby 2 easy goals, and offered very little in open play again.
This is another game where we failed to score from open play.
Actually, out of 17 games, we have failed to score in open play in 9 of them. That is a worrying statistic to read whether we like it or not. [Post edited 29 Nov 2025 11:15]
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| Three points off second. on 11:17 - Nov 29 with 694 views | Herbivore |
| Three points off second. on 11:11 - Nov 29 by Esseeja |
I decided to ATTEMPT to calculate (because I'm probably wrong) the last 10 seasons' average ppg needed for 6th, and 2nd.
Like I said, cherry-picked because it's obviously not fair to judge on cherry picks for the entire season, but I found it worrying.
In the last 10 seasons, you have needed an average of 1.6 points per game for 6th (73.5 (74 rounded up) points average), and 1.97 points per game (91 points average) for 2nd.
Removing both the 4 losses and the 4 games we scored by 3 or more goals:
9 played
15 points
12 scored
7 conceded
+5 GD
1.67 points per game, which is 0.07 more than what you need for playoffs if that is your expectation.
But if we only removed the 4 losses instead, that's an easy job, same amount of points in less games, but it makes it look like we are world beaters in comparison to what I cherry-picked, as I thought, and still think, it's more relevant to how poor we are in the final third.
Anyway...
13 games
27 points
27 goals
10 conceded
+17 GD
2.07 points per game, 0.1 more than what you need for 2nd.
The reason I removed the 4 games we scored 3 or more goals in rather than both of these, is because my thinking is it's papering over the cracks as to how much lacks in quality chances and finishing. We are so poor in the final third, and are so defensively soft in key moments/transitions.
When we played Sheffield United, Norwich, and Swansea at a time when all of these clubs were a right mess at the time. For the most part, they still are. If we actually failed to win in any of those 3 games, then there would have been serious questions McKenna would need to be having with himself and his staff.
My thinking is that those 3 of 4 wins have papered over the cracks, it's probably fairer to include the QPR result as there were no unforseem circumstances with QPR, they were simply suffering from a natural drop in form as all mid-table teams will do. We know that more than anyone. The only reason I didn't is because of consistency in emitting a statistic.
Once we play Wednesday, we'll probably have more of an increase in our goal difference. It would be unfathomable if we dropped points to them in any capacity. We almost giftrapped Southampton all 6 points last season if not for Morsy's late deflection equaliser.
So, I still have genuine concerns about how our season has progressed so far. I'm not even sure if we HAVE improved where we needed to. We giftrapped Oxford those goals the same way we did against Derby, but we actually deserved more than a draw against Derby than we did against Oxford.
In fact, the last 3 games have made me question things a lot. Every time we come back from an international break this season, we lose all of our progression. It's like we are back for a new season with a new team every time.
After this break, we have missed all of those chances against Wrexham, thus, failing to score only the 2nd time this season (which is a good statistic to read).
Then, we spend 70 minutes against Hull offering absolutely nothing with all of the ball, not needing to defend our goal mind you, before we scored out of nowhere after their defender missed his header. After that the floodgates opened in that game and we honestly could have scored more than just 2 goals.
Then, in our next game, we poorly gift Oxford 2 goals, just like we gifted Derby 2 easy goals, and offered very little in open play again.
This is another game where we failed to score from open play.
Actually, out of 17 games, we have failed to score in open play in 9 of them. That is a worrying statistic to read whether we like it or not. [Post edited 29 Nov 2025 11:15]
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By the same token you could argue that the four losses obscure that in all bar one of two games this season we've had the lion's share of play and good chances. That's borne out by the stats. I'm not sure this kind of cherry picking is helpful though, we are where we are. The losses and some of the draws highlight the dual issue of us not being clinical enough and conceding soft goals at bad times. The big wins show what happens when we take our chances. At the moment we're doing neither of those things all the time because we're inconsistent. That said, 6 games unbeaten before last night shows we had been addressing some of our issues despite still not hitting top form. | |
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| Three points off second. on 11:29 - Nov 29 with 682 views | TownieRob |
| Three points off second. on 10:51 - Nov 29 by Herbivore |
Thought we played well against Watford, the finishing wasn't there which is frustrating, but we largely battered them. Hull was a good away performance overall against a side with a good home record. First half was very scrappy but we improved after the break and put them away comfortably in the end. |
Largely battered but didn't beat a very average side at home. Hull was a win, it really wasn't a good performance. The first half was rank, the 2nd half was a bit better for 10 minutes. If I concede to your points, thata then 9 average or sub-par performance in 18. That's terrible for the money we have spent, don't you think?
I respect your option, after all that's what football is all about. | | | |
| Three points off second. on 11:37 - Nov 29 with 676 views | Herbivore |
| Three points off second. on 11:29 - Nov 29 by TownieRob |
Largely battered but didn't beat a very average side at home. Hull was a win, it really wasn't a good performance. The first half was rank, the 2nd half was a bit better for 10 minutes. If I concede to your points, thata then 9 average or sub-par performance in 18. That's terrible for the money we have spent, don't you think?
I respect your option, after all that's what football is all about. |
Well there's a couple of other performances you've noted as being poor that I'd probably describe as average. Overall we've not been great, certainly we should have played better than we have in more games, but I think "terrible" is over the top. We're 3 points off second and have fewer points than performances have warranted (that's backed up by all of the data, it's not just my view) despite being short of top gear so far. That's frustrating but I don't agree we've been terrible. | |
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| Three points off second. on 13:19 - Nov 29 with 634 views | Esseeja |
| Three points off second. on 11:37 - Nov 29 by Herbivore |
Well there's a couple of other performances you've noted as being poor that I'd probably describe as average. Overall we've not been great, certainly we should have played better than we have in more games, but I think "terrible" is over the top. We're 3 points off second and have fewer points than performances have warranted (that's backed up by all of the data, it's not just my view) despite being short of top gear so far. That's frustrating but I don't agree we've been terrible. |
Not being able to score in open play in 9 of the 17 fixtures is a serious problem and we haven't learnt how to be better.
Consistently scoring soft goals, especially against the run of play, has been a consistent issue since the start of the season, and we aren't learning our lessons here either.
Hence my worries. [Post edited 30 Nov 2025 7:52]
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| Three points off second. on 16:56 - Nov 29 with 599 views | WestSussexBlue |
| Three points off second. on 07:53 - Nov 29 by FrimleyBlue |
If finances didnt help then you'd have sides like Oxford in the top 6 not the bottom.
There's a reason why parachute clubs in general yo yo unless finances used wrongly
I think it'd fair to say our spend has been extreme and on the wrong players.
A few as individuals in a squad fine. But individuals together in this unit isn't balanced. |
But what you’re saying is based on finances, richest clubs of the division at this point should be in that exact order, my point is, it doesn’t always work that way. If it did we’d now be seeing Manchester United and probably Liverpool or Manchester City as the top Three of the Premier League. Ultimately the finances will, have a huge say particularly to a final league table whether that’s Premier league or National League.
Remember, it’s not even anywhere near half way through the season yet. [Post edited 29 Nov 2025 20:19]
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| Three points off second. on 17:06 - Nov 29 with 577 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Three points off second. on 11:37 - Nov 29 by Herbivore |
Well there's a couple of other performances you've noted as being poor that I'd probably describe as average. Overall we've not been great, certainly we should have played better than we have in more games, but I think "terrible" is over the top. We're 3 points off second and have fewer points than performances have warranted (that's backed up by all of the data, it's not just my view) despite being short of top gear so far. That's frustrating but I don't agree we've been terrible. |
I think we have some of the best players in this division and we have been fairly average. Having the best players in the division playing average has put us in a decent position with 29 games remaining.
We've done enough to stay in contention without playing anywhere near our full potential. Get things right post Christmas and I have no doubt we will be a top two team come the end of the season. |  |
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| Three points off second. on 19:00 - Nov 29 with 515 views | TownieRob |
| Three points off second. on 11:37 - Nov 29 by Herbivore |
Well there's a couple of other performances you've noted as being poor that I'd probably describe as average. Overall we've not been great, certainly we should have played better than we have in more games, but I think "terrible" is over the top. We're 3 points off second and have fewer points than performances have warranted (that's backed up by all of the data, it's not just my view) despite being short of top gear so far. That's frustrating but I don't agree we've been terrible. |
In my opinion, as a side having just come down, spending the money we have and being average in 50% of games isn't good, considering the poor standard of the league.
Fingers crossed something clicks.. | | | |
| Three points off second. on 20:15 - Nov 29 with 473 views | WestSussexBlue |
| Three points off second. on 09:02 - Nov 29 by jasondozzell |
Having sat through the bleakest of times under Evans, I just refuse to behave like we're adrift in league one and rudderless when the club is in rude financial health, had the best manager we've had for 25 years if not longer, and is 3 points off second. I really do question whether people who are overreacting have forgotten what normal seasons were like here.
This was always going to be tricky. KM patiently explains why but people don't listen. I've seen enough to know that we will finish top 6 comfortably and I expect top two.. It's not a video game. Setbacks happen. We're going clearly in the right direction. We played some good stuff last night. |
Absolutely. | | | |
| Three points off second. on 07:06 - Nov 30 with 392 views | Blue_Heath |
It depends how you measure improvement, it was pretty obvious after opening set of games things would get better due to law of averages alone.
Possession wise we have improved but that is about all.
We've been lucky to play a few teams at the right time (Sheff U, Swansea) as bad as that lot are we struggled for periods of time in that game too and Sheff U were better than us in the first half.
Football has moved on, teams know how to play against tippy, tappy teams now we need to change tactics if we are to improve.
Yes I moan here but always right behind the boys at PR. | |
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