| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead 17:33 - Jan 13 with 10928 views | GlasgowBlue |
Iranian dissidents claim it is more likely between 7500 and 12000.
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:39 - Mar 10 with 796 views | vapour_trail |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:33 - Mar 10 by Perublue |
There will always be appeasers |
Sorry, who are you suggesting these appeasers are? |  |
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:39 - Mar 10 with 796 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:32 - Mar 10 by Perublue |
Oh btw I don’t have X … just out of interest who are the other countries under show more ? |
🇦🇴 Angola
🇧🇯 Benin
🇧🇴 Bolivia
🇨🇮 Côte d’Ivoire
🇨🇩 Democratic Republic of the Congo
🇪🇹 Ethiopia
🇬🇲 Gambia
🇬🇭 Ghana
🇮🇳 India
🇮🇩 Indonesia
🇰🇪 Kenya
🇲🇼 Malawi
🇲🇭 Marshall Islands
🇹🇭 Thailand
🇻🇳 Viet Nam | |
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:45 - Mar 10 with 764 views | DJR |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:33 - Mar 10 by Perublue |
There will always be appeasers |
I think it's rather difficult to regard Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe as an appeaser. |  | | |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:50 - Mar 10 with 749 views | DJR |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:31 - Mar 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Completely academic now. Trump is going to let them down again. |
I must admit I suspected this was the case from the outset given he put all the onus on the Iranian people. Indeed, I felt the democracy line was just a ruse to justify what they were doing, and it is interesting that they have never subsequently said this was a reason for their action.
And this is from the letter.
“A pro-democracy policy would protect political prisoners and ensure that Israel and the US do not bomb prisons like Evin. It is in those cells where the future democratic leaders of Iran reside. A pro-democracy policy would smuggle internet devices – not weapons – across the border, and break the blackout that is blanketing the country. A pro-democracy policy would call out Israel’s assassination policy even when it targets leaders we despise. There is so much that can be done in solidarity with Iranians. But joining in with Netanyahu’s forever wars is not it.” [Post edited 10 Mar 19:53]
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:54 - Mar 10 with 728 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:50 - Mar 10 by DJR |
I must admit I suspected this was the case from the outset given he put all the onus on the Iranian people. Indeed, I felt the democracy line was just a ruse to justify what they were doing, and it is interesting that they have never subsequently said this was a reason for their action.
And this is from the letter.
“A pro-democracy policy would protect political prisoners and ensure that Israel and the US do not bomb prisons like Evin. It is in those cells where the future democratic leaders of Iran reside. A pro-democracy policy would smuggle internet devices – not weapons – across the border, and break the blackout that is blanketing the country. A pro-democracy policy would call out Israel’s assassination policy even when it targets leaders we despise. There is so much that can be done in solidarity with Iranians. But joining in with Netanyahu’s forever wars is not it.” [Post edited 10 Mar 19:53]
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Likewise. But I hoped rather than expected he'd inflict enough damage on the regime that it would topple.
Rumours that the supreme leader is severely injured and is currently on life support in the ICU of the Sina hospital. Which probably explains why they had a cardboard cut out of him at his investiture ceremony rather than the real thing. | |
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 23:27 - Mar 10 with 677 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:33 - Mar 10 by Perublue |
There will always be appeasers |
Appalling judgmentalism |  | | |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 07:53 - Mar 11 with 577 views | DJR |
Of course, it may all be bravado but this is perhaps surprising.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
"Iran has spurned two messages from Donald Trump’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, seeking a ceasefire as its leaders sense it is not losing the war and the US president is at the minimum feeling the political pressure.
The foreign minister, Abbas Araghchi, has further said a unilateral declaration from Trump that the US had won the war would not bring an end to the conflict. The implication is that even if the US announced a willingness to end its attacks, Iran might be willing to continue the conflict in some form, or keep its chokehold on shipping seeking to navigate the strait of Hormuz.
Iran believes there can be no end to the conflict until it believes Trump has been shown the economic, political and military cost is so high that it is not worth repeating. It is instead insisting on a permanent deal that includes a US commitment not to attack Iran again.
“If a ceasefire is to be established or the war stopped there must be a guarantee that aggressive actions against Iran will not be repeated. Otherwise if another attack occurs after a few months such a ceasefire would be meaningless,” said Kazem Gharibabadi, the deputy foreign minister.
The defiance is remarkable for a regime that at the start of the war 11 days ago was seeking little more than its own survival."
There's also this.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
"Iranian-backed militias around the Middle East are continuing attacks against Israel, the US and their allies in retaliation for the US-Israeli offensive against Tehran, but have so far held back from all-out confrontation, analysts and regional officials say.
The relative restraint suggests that Tehran sees such forces as a strategic reserve to be deployed if the 12-day war continues to intensify – though it may also be a sign that Iranian command and control systems are breaking down."
Whatever the position, it does strike me that Trump doesn't necessarily have all the cards, and has got himself into a bit of a mess. I don't think the same is true for Netanyahu who has popular support at home. [Post edited 11 Mar 7:59]
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 08:38 - Mar 11 with 535 views | DJR |
This suggests Trump hasn't really thought things through and isn't really in control of events. But who would expect any different?
"South Korea rattled by US's hasty redeployment of missiles to Middle East
The US has reportedly started moving parts of the US-made missile-defence system, along with other military hardware, out of South Korea for deployment in its war against Iran – a move officials are downplaying, but which has raised questions over Donald Trump’s commitment to North-east Asia.
As the Guardian’s Justin McCurry writes:
The move, reported this week, has triggered doubts over Donald Trump’s security commitment to South Korea – the US’s most important east Asian ally along with Japan – and warnings that the nuclear-armed North could seek to ramp up pressure on its neighbour. Why, critics are asking, did South Korea invest so much political capital in a defence system that could one day be removed?"
The impression I get, and I am no military expert, is that Iran is proving to be a tougher nut to crack than was ever envisaged by Trump or those around him. It would be interesting to know what the military advice was given Iran is no Venezuela. [Post edited 11 Mar 10:23]
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 10:22 - Mar 11 with 473 views | DJR |
Interesting article in today's FT. It is paywalled but I set it out in full below.
https://www.ft.com/content/4e0
Iranians rethink the price of regime change
Destructive US and Israeli war and Islamic republic’s resilience have alarmed even those who supported foreign intervention
After thousands were killed in a brutal crackdown on anti-regime protests in Iran in January, Mandana gave up hope for reform from within. She came to the conclusion that the Islamic republic’s leaders had to go even if it meant US and Israeli-led regime change.
So when the two countries attacked the compound of supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on February 28, killing him and several of his family members, Mandana — who like others interviewed used a pseudonym — believed the change she coveted had finally come.
Her experience in the terrifying days since has shattered that belief. Air strikes have targeted not just military sites and senior regime figures but have repeatedly hit civilian infrastructure.
Over the weekend, Tehran was enveloped in toxic black smog after Israel bombed fuel depots around the city; on Tuesday, massive explosions caused widespread blackouts.
“We weren’t supposed to be bombed,” Mandana said, her voice trembling after a massive explosion near her apartment by Vanak Square in central Tehran. “Our city, our country, this wasn’t supposed to happen. How is it that Venezuela . . . saw clean, bloodless regime change, but not here?”
The scale of destruction and the apparent resilience of the Islamic regime, which appointed Khamenei’s son Mojtaba as the new supreme leader in an act of defiance, has prompted many Iranians to rethink hopes that foreign intervention might bring about its end.
Approaching two weeks into the war, no signs exist of the sort of anti-regime unrest that broke out across the country in January before being crushed in a brutal crackdown that killed thousands.
Instead many, even those who loathe the Islamic republic, appear to have recoiled at the destruction and comments including Donald Trump’s threat to target electricity production facilities if the regime escalated. The US president also said Iran’s map will “probably not” be the same after the war, sparking fears the conflict could break apart the country.
One sociologist in Tehran, who is critical of the regime and the war, said there was anecdotal evidence of a growing “sense of nationalism emerging from the war” as happened during Israel’s 12-day conflict against Iran last year, when people rallied around the flag.
“The fear of Iran’s destruction is increasingly uniting people as they fear the consequences of such a large-scale conflict,” the sociologist said, asking not to be named.
Non-military sites have become collateral damage, as air strikes target police stations, military facilities and officials living in residential neighbourhoods. More than 1,000 civilians have been killed and over 8,000 homes damaged or destroyed, according to official figures.
The scenes of devastation — to schools, a desalination plant, passenger aircraft and historic landmarks such as Tehran’s Grand Bazaar and Golestan Palace — have shocked many Iranians.
“If they wanted to assassinate the supreme leader, why are they waging full-scale war?” asked one woman. Before the war, she — like many anti-regime Iranians inside and outside the country — had welcomed military intervention.
Expatriate communities staged large rallies in western capitals, calling for an end to the Islamic republic. Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of the late ousted Shah, also supported military action, promising to return to lead Iran once the regime had collapsed.
“Maybe he should come now with his three daughters and see how it feels to be bombarded,” said one woman, who opposes the current regime but also rejects a return to monarchy. “Those who supported the war should take responsibility now. But I doubt they will.”
When many Iranians put aside their disillusionment with their leaders to embrace patriotic gestures during the June war, the regime presented this as proof of public support and ignored calls for reform after the conflict was over.
This time, Iranians — traumatised by the crackdown in January — have been more hesitant, fearing that expressions of patriotism or anti-war sentiment will again be co-opted by the authorities.
In northern Iran, a woman whose son was killed in the protests stopped wearing black the day Khamenei died, feeling that some revenge had been exacted. In Tehran, another woman baked a cake for her neighbours to celebrate the supreme leader’s demise. But she was so shocked by the scale of the subsequent attacks that she later left the city.
The Islamic republic, for its part, is taking no chances. Authorities have filled squares with loyalists each evening, drawing on the vocal minority of regime supporters to project strength and support. They also patrol the streets on motorcycles carrying loudspeakers that blare out religious songs.
“These are our real supporters,” said one regime insider. “This is genuine loyalty, rooted in Shia Islam — something the Americans can never understand. Even if the leader of the Islamic system is killed, the system will survive because Shiism is alive.”
The regime’s apparent resilience in the face of the greatest conflict since the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s has led some to question whether even a prolonged war would bring about its demise.
After Mojtaba was selected as the new supreme leader on Monday, supporters across the country also took to the streets.
But Mojtaba has not been seen since the war started and he is yet to speak to Iranians about his plans. The US and Israel have threatened to assassinate whoever takes over and rumours are rife that he was injured during the war.
His selection has stunned many anti-regime Iranians, who fear a supreme leader who will continue his father’s hardline agenda, resistance to reform and hostility to the west.
“If things stay like this, we’re in a worse place now than before the war,” said Mahboubeh, a translator. “A country destroyed; Khamenei replaced by another Khamenei, 30 years younger.”
Meanwhile, monarchists support Pahlavi and back the US and Israeli intervention despite its toll. But analysts believe the exiled royal may have lost support from more recent converts to his cause as the brutal reality of war sets in.
The majority of Iranians who see the January killings as unforgivable are lost over how to push for change. This includes Sara, a teacher in her forties who once hoped for the regime’s overthrow but now admits she has changed her mind.
“I’ve come to terms with the bitter reality: the Islamic republic is resilient,” she said. “I never thought I’d say this, but if someone from within the regime becomes a real reformer, why not? In the end, we just want peace and welfare.”
Marjan, a housewife, could not hide her emotions when news of Khamenei’s death broke. She had believed it would usher in the regime’s collapse. “Now I wonder, even if the Islamic republic falls, what will we inherit: a land in ruins. [Post edited 11 Mar 10:23]
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 13:13 - Mar 12 with 345 views | DJR |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 19:54 - Mar 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Likewise. But I hoped rather than expected he'd inflict enough damage on the regime that it would topple.
Rumours that the supreme leader is severely injured and is currently on life support in the ICU of the Sina hospital. Which probably explains why they had a cardboard cut out of him at his investiture ceremony rather than the real thing. |
Seems like Israel didn't see regime change as a realistic possibility either.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
"Israel did not have a realistic plan for regime change when it attacked Iran, multiple Israeli security sources have said, with expectations that airstrikes could lead to a popular uprising having been driven by “wishful thinking” rather than hard intelligence."
Sadly, it's difficult to know what the answer is. [Post edited 12 Mar 13:15]
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 15:03 - Mar 12 with 298 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 07:50 - Mar 10 by GlasgowBlue |
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What a bizarre downvote.
edit. In other football related news
[Post edited 12 Mar 15:04]
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| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 15:52 - Mar 12 with 249 views | Churchman |
| Iranian State claiming 2000 protesters dead on 15:03 - Mar 12 by GlasgowBlue |
What a bizarre downvote.
edit. In other football related news
[Post edited 12 Mar 15:04]
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Shot dead, I’d imagine. What a brave man.
The animals in charge of that country have made it clear that one word against the leadership and you are dead. I suspect that when US and Israel are finished, many thousands of Iranians will be rounded up and killed by the regime. |  | | |
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