| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) 09:27 - Jan 25 with 8823 views | gtsb1966 |
You just know they will. It will then lead to infighting and the party tearing itself apart. Starmer is so unpopular he is toast so just let him stand. If they block him that's one vote they've lost whatever happens in the future.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 21:14 - Jan 26 with 865 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 20:52 - Jan 26 by redrickstuhaart |
My original statement was "Corbyn remains guilty of subjecting us to Brexit. A positive campaign by him would have swung it." Which remains a valid statement.
I am well aware that he notionally supported remain. But he did not undertake any sort of positive campaign, when Cameron et al were doing so. Had he done so, he needed only to take a small percentage of his support base with him to have shifted the vote. |
According to You Gov, 39% of Tory voters voted remain and 61% voted for Brexit.
In contrast, 65% of Labour voters voted remain. which was only 3 percentages points below Lib Dem voters, pretty good when you consider Labour voters were more likely to be in areas that had suffered from decline than Lib Dem voters, and overall were probably less middle class.
The real culprit was Cameron who called the election for party management reasons, and couldn't deliver when it came to Tory votes for remain.
But it's always Corbyn who gets the blame. 
Finally, Project Fear was never a positive case for the EU. I supported the EU for internationalist reasons, and campaigned on the streets for remain, but sadly the internationalist and related emotional case was never made. [Post edited 27 Jan 8:33]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 08:46 - Jan 27 with 759 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 21:06 - Jan 25 by jasondozzell |
Haha.
He's going in May.
What do you think is going to happen in the May elections? |
I don't think he's going in May. I think bad results in May are already factored in. And it seems to me significant that only 50 Labour MPs (presumably mainly from the soft left) have signed a letter complaining about Burnham being excluded. It may also be the case that a significant number of MPs are not that fussed by Streeting, the only currently viable alternative, with Rayner still waiting to hear if HMRC will take any action.
And for what it is worth, I think Starmer ought to be given time to see if things in the country improve. [Post edited 27 Jan 8:48]
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| They'll block him on 09:21 - Jan 27 with 714 views | Benters |
| They'll block him on 20:31 - Jan 26 by Bigalhunter |
Good for you, Benters, at least you own it!
Nothing worse than having a couple of ‘Right Lite’ self-important types patronising you and passing your views off as a wind-up…
You’ve got one of them saying you just need engagement whilst the other one argues that your opinions are exaggerated to wind up those with a sense of common decency and fairness…
It must be a nightmare but just stick to your guns.
I bet that ‘spoons was rocking this morning as news broke of Suella joining the good fight.. [Post edited 26 Jan 20:41]
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I don’t frequent pubs as much as I used to in my younger day.
I do use a couple of spoons occasionally one in Colwho and the other in Crackers.
I was drinking Mauldons Suffolk Pride on Thursday in a Spoons it was £2.89 a pint, in my town local it was £5.30 incredible difference really.
As for the politics I’ve had enough of them all tbh. |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:33 - Jan 27 with 693 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 21:14 - Jan 26 by DJR |
According to You Gov, 39% of Tory voters voted remain and 61% voted for Brexit.
In contrast, 65% of Labour voters voted remain. which was only 3 percentages points below Lib Dem voters, pretty good when you consider Labour voters were more likely to be in areas that had suffered from decline than Lib Dem voters, and overall were probably less middle class.
The real culprit was Cameron who called the election for party management reasons, and couldn't deliver when it came to Tory votes for remain.
But it's always Corbyn who gets the blame.
Finally, Project Fear was never a positive case for the EU. I supported the EU for internationalist reasons, and campaigned on the streets for remain, but sadly the internationalist and related emotional case was never made. [Post edited 27 Jan 8:33]
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The problem is, nobody is going to believe a man who spent his life denigrating the EU, and voted against implementing virtually every major treaty. So he either looks unprincipled, or dishonest. |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:37 - Jan 27 with 684 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:33 - Jan 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
The problem is, nobody is going to believe a man who spent his life denigrating the EU, and voted against implementing virtually every major treaty. So he either looks unprincipled, or dishonest. |
The smears never stop so I will post the following for the third time, and if you don't agree take it up with John Curtice.
I forgot to mention Project Fear but perhaps more pertinently I came across this article.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.
Jeremy Corbyn Did As Much As Nicola Sturgeon To Campaign Against Brexit, Top Pollster Says
It is 'nonsense' to cast Corbyn as the 'devil incarnate'.
Jeremy Corbyn did just as much to convince supporters to back Remain in the EU referendum as Nicola Sturgeon, a senior pollster claimed today.
The Labour leader has long faced claims that he failed to inspire voters to stop Brexit, but those were given short shrift by Professor John Curtice on Wednesday.
Curtice, who is President of the UK Polling Council, said it was “nonsense” to suggest Corbyn was the “devil incarnate” for how he campaigned during the EU referendum.
According to the BBC, he said: “The whole argument about Jeremy Corbyn – I understand where it’s coming from – but in terms of hard stats, if Jeremy Corbyn should be out on his ear, so should Nicola Sturgeon.
“Apparently Nicola Sturgeon was Saint Remain, and Jeremy Corbyn was the devil incarnate himself - statistically this is nonsense.”
“Jeremy Corbyn was no less successful than Nicola Sturgeon in getting Labour voters to vote Remain.” [Post edited 27 Jan 9:38]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:39 - Jan 27 with 675 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:37 - Jan 27 by DJR |
The smears never stop so I will post the following for the third time, and if you don't agree take it up with John Curtice.
I forgot to mention Project Fear but perhaps more pertinently I came across this article.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.
Jeremy Corbyn Did As Much As Nicola Sturgeon To Campaign Against Brexit, Top Pollster Says
It is 'nonsense' to cast Corbyn as the 'devil incarnate'.
Jeremy Corbyn did just as much to convince supporters to back Remain in the EU referendum as Nicola Sturgeon, a senior pollster claimed today.
The Labour leader has long faced claims that he failed to inspire voters to stop Brexit, but those were given short shrift by Professor John Curtice on Wednesday.
Curtice, who is President of the UK Polling Council, said it was “nonsense” to suggest Corbyn was the “devil incarnate” for how he campaigned during the EU referendum.
According to the BBC, he said: “The whole argument about Jeremy Corbyn – I understand where it’s coming from – but in terms of hard stats, if Jeremy Corbyn should be out on his ear, so should Nicola Sturgeon.
“Apparently Nicola Sturgeon was Saint Remain, and Jeremy Corbyn was the devil incarnate himself - statistically this is nonsense.”
“Jeremy Corbyn was no less successful than Nicola Sturgeon in getting Labour voters to vote Remain.” [Post edited 27 Jan 9:38]
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Well it’s not a great defence is it - in case you didn’t notice, the people of Scotland voted to remain… | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:59 - Jan 27 with 643 views | Herbivore |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:39 - Jan 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Well it’s not a great defence is it - in case you didn’t notice, the people of Scotland voted to remain… |
That's a pretty weak argument, mate. There's plenty to legitimately criticise Corbyn for but to blame him as leader of the opposition for not doing more to convince Tory and UKIP voters to vote remain is a bit of a weird one. Corbyn being lukewarm (at best) on the EU is not why we ended up with Brexit. |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) (n/t) on 10:06 - Jan 27 with 637 views | DJR |
[Post edited 27 Jan 12:06]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:39 - Jan 27 with 597 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:59 - Jan 27 by Herbivore |
That's a pretty weak argument, mate. There's plenty to legitimately criticise Corbyn for but to blame him as leader of the opposition for not doing more to convince Tory and UKIP voters to vote remain is a bit of a weird one. Corbyn being lukewarm (at best) on the EU is not why we ended up with Brexit. |
Having read through it, I can’t see a single poster has suggested it’s entirely his fault. But given Labour’s own core support in their Heartland/Red Wall votes against their own party’s Leaders’s position, they clearly didn’t believe him.
Spending your entire career openly disparaging the EU, telling people it’s a bad thing, and voting against further integration - then asking people to vote to stay in the EU is more than a little ridiculous. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) (n/t) on 10:40 - Jan 27 with 587 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:39 - Jan 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Having read through it, I can’t see a single poster has suggested it’s entirely his fault. But given Labour’s own core support in their Heartland/Red Wall votes against their own party’s Leaders’s position, they clearly didn’t believe him.
Spending your entire career openly disparaging the EU, telling people it’s a bad thing, and voting against further integration - then asking people to vote to stay in the EU is more than a little ridiculous. |
[Post edited 27 Jan 12:04]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:03 - Jan 27 with 516 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 08:46 - Jan 27 by DJR |
I don't think he's going in May. I think bad results in May are already factored in. And it seems to me significant that only 50 Labour MPs (presumably mainly from the soft left) have signed a letter complaining about Burnham being excluded. It may also be the case that a significant number of MPs are not that fussed by Streeting, the only currently viable alternative, with Rayner still waiting to hear if HMRC will take any action.
And for what it is worth, I think Starmer ought to be given time to see if things in the country improve. [Post edited 27 Jan 8:48]
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There's no way he's surviving May.
I still don't think people understand the scale of the defeat awaiting them in the locals. We are talking existential crisis for the party levels.
You'll get Streeting and we'll all be told to put up with it.
I don't think Starmer needs any more time to prove that it was a bankrupt political project from the start. How is he suddenly going to develop principles and a political vision? He has never had either. |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:05 - Jan 27 with 511 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:03 - Jan 27 by jasondozzell |
There's no way he's surviving May.
I still don't think people understand the scale of the defeat awaiting them in the locals. We are talking existential crisis for the party levels.
You'll get Streeting and we'll all be told to put up with it.
I don't think Starmer needs any more time to prove that it was a bankrupt political project from the start. How is he suddenly going to develop principles and a political vision? He has never had either. |
We shall see but it's difficult to think thank anyone in the current Parliamentary party will be able to turn things round. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:07 - Jan 27 with 497 views | Herbivore |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 10:39 - Jan 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Having read through it, I can’t see a single poster has suggested it’s entirely his fault. But given Labour’s own core support in their Heartland/Red Wall votes against their own party’s Leaders’s position, they clearly didn’t believe him.
Spending your entire career openly disparaging the EU, telling people it’s a bad thing, and voting against further integration - then asking people to vote to stay in the EU is more than a little ridiculous. |
Nearly two thirds of Labour voters voted remain. I really don't think Corbyn's stance made a huge difference. | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:09 - Jan 27 with 478 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) (n/t) on 10:40 - Jan 27 by DJR |
[Post edited 27 Jan 12:04]
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I thought we were all about evidence, perhaps have a look at his voting record over the years? Refuting facts as smears is all a bit ‘fake news’.
Not sure ‘derangement’ is an appropriate term to be throwing at people in this day and age either… | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:11 - Jan 27 with 472 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:05 - Jan 27 by DJR |
We shall see but it's difficult to think thank anyone in the current Parliamentary party will be able to turn things round. |
Yep, total paucity of talent and principle. The inevitable outcome of the Mandelson/McSweeney project.
The idea that Streeting or Rayner would be any different is laughable really.
Suspect Labour will be beaten by the Greens in the next election.
Probably the end of the party. From representing workers to representing a tiny professional managerial class. A sad end. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:13 - Jan 27 with 459 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:09 - Jan 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I thought we were all about evidence, perhaps have a look at his voting record over the years? Refuting facts as smears is all a bit ‘fake news’.
Not sure ‘derangement’ is an appropriate term to be throwing at people in this day and age either… |
It is truly incredible how much Corbyn boiled people's brains.
Moderate democratic socialism! Incredible really. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:23 - Jan 27 with 431 views | Blueschev |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:07 - Jan 27 by Herbivore |
Nearly two thirds of Labour voters voted remain. I really don't think Corbyn's stance made a huge difference. |
I agree, most of the "Corbynistas" I came across were also strongly pro remain, I don't think his history of Euroscepticism factored a great deal in their thinking. |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:03 - Jan 27 with 383 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 11:09 - Jan 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I thought we were all about evidence, perhaps have a look at his voting record over the years? Refuting facts as smears is all a bit ‘fake news’.
Not sure ‘derangement’ is an appropriate term to be throwing at people in this day and age either… |
One can surmise about Corbyn's impact on the Brexit vote, but the closest I've seen to facts is what the respected BBC polling guru John Curtice said.
As regards the expression I used, that was based on what I regarded as a fairly knock-about and humorous expression relating to Bush, especially the words "-nay- the very existence of George W Bush". The phrase was coined by a psychiatrist turned political commentor who won the Pulitzer Prize. Indeed, the smiley face was meant to indicate that my use of it was humorous too.
But I appreciate that in this day in age, such an expression may no longer be appropriate, so I've edited my post. [Post edited 27 Jan 12:16]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:13 - Jan 27 with 365 views | GlasgowBlue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:03 - Jan 27 by DJR |
One can surmise about Corbyn's impact on the Brexit vote, but the closest I've seen to facts is what the respected BBC polling guru John Curtice said.
As regards the expression I used, that was based on what I regarded as a fairly knock-about and humorous expression relating to Bush, especially the words "-nay- the very existence of George W Bush". The phrase was coined by a psychiatrist turned political commentor who won the Pulitzer Prize. Indeed, the smiley face was meant to indicate that my use of it was humorous too.
But I appreciate that in this day in age, such an expression may no longer be appropriate, so I've edited my post. [Post edited 27 Jan 12:16]
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"Alan Johnson: Corbyn's office worked against rest of party"
https://www.itv.com/news/updat |  |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:38 - Jan 27 with 333 views | DJR |
Leaving aside the words of Many Rice-Davies, I'm sure I read at the time that Johnson didn't really want Corbyn anywhere near the Labour In Britain campaign.
But this is not to say that the Labour Party was not solidly pro-remain as this article indicates. That in turn led to a dissonance between its stance and the stance of a large portion of its voters, which was reflected in the 2019 election results.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec [Post edited 27 Jan 12:42]
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:38 - Jan 27 with 329 views | DJR |
Leaving aside the words of Mandy Rice-Davies, I'm sure I read at the time that Johnson didn't really want Corbyn anywhere near the Labour In For Britain campaign.
After all, if you wanted to sell something, Corbyn wasn't exactly the best salesman. Added to that his unpopularity especially given how castigated he was in the media, and even in his own party.
But this is not to say that the Labour Party was not solidly pro-remain as this article indicated.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:42 - Jan 27 with 323 views | GlasgowBlue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:38 - Jan 27 by DJR |
Leaving aside the words of Mandy Rice-Davies, I'm sure I read at the time that Johnson didn't really want Corbyn anywhere near the Labour In For Britain campaign.
After all, if you wanted to sell something, Corbyn wasn't exactly the best salesman. Added to that his unpopularity especially given how castigated he was in the media, and even in his own party.
But this is not to say that the Labour Party was not solidly pro-remain as this article indicated.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec |
Owen Smith and the pro EU wing of the Labour party launched a leadership challenge against Corbyn because of his lacklustre performance in the referendum. He even bvggered off on holiday halfway through the campaign. | |
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| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:45 - Jan 27 with 312 views | Blueschev |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:38 - Jan 27 by DJR |
Leaving aside the words of Mandy Rice-Davies, I'm sure I read at the time that Johnson didn't really want Corbyn anywhere near the Labour In For Britain campaign.
After all, if you wanted to sell something, Corbyn wasn't exactly the best salesman. Added to that his unpopularity especially given how castigated he was in the media, and even in his own party.
But this is not to say that the Labour Party was not solidly pro-remain as this article indicated.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-elec |
From memory, the Labour in for Britain campaign did all they could to exclude Corbyn, then blamed him for not doing enough when they lost. They then used the result as a pretext to try and oust him. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:47 - Jan 27 with 311 views | jasondozzell |
They had some cheek on them to accuse him of that whilst conducting an industrial level wrecking operation against him and the party from the inside.
Most of the public are probably not aware of what actually happened in 2017. | | | |
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