| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) 09:27 - Jan 25 with 8525 views | gtsb1966 |
You just know they will. It will then lead to infighting and the party tearing itself apart. Starmer is so unpopular he is toast so just let him stand. If they block him that's one vote they've lost whatever happens in the future.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:55 - Jan 27 with 672 views | GlasgowBlue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:45 - Jan 27 by Blueschev |
From memory, the Labour in for Britain campaign did all they could to exclude Corbyn, then blamed him for not doing enough when they lost. They then used the result as a pretext to try and oust him. |
https://www.channel4.com/news/ |  |
| |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:00 - Jan 27 with 657 views | Herbivore |
If we're going to have a debate about what led to Brexit, I'm pretty sure dodgy Russian money, the lies and electoral breaches by the leave campaign, and all the Cambridge Analytica stuff were far more influential than a guy who looks like a substitute geography teacher not being as visible and enthusiastic as he could have been. |  |
| |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:07 - Jan 27 with 630 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:00 - Jan 27 by Herbivore |
If we're going to have a debate about what led to Brexit, I'm pretty sure dodgy Russian money, the lies and electoral breaches by the leave campaign, and all the Cambridge Analytica stuff were far more influential than a guy who looks like a substitute geography teacher not being as visible and enthusiastic as he could have been. |
Funny how Teflon Dave never gets blamed for anything. |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:10 - Jan 27 with 612 views | DJR |
Is it me, or is this thread with its focus on Brexit beginning to seem like a typical James O'Brien radio show of the last 10 years? | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:15 - Jan 27 with 588 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:11 - Jan 27 by Blueschev |
"Just weeks before the vote, he famously told Channel 4’s The Last Leg that his enthusiasm for EU membership was about “seven, or seven and a half out of 10”.
I remember the faux outrage about that comment at the time. What was he supposed to say? 10/10+? It's a stupid question, and surely even the most staunch Remainer wouldn't have claimed the EU was perfect. |
And surprise, surprise it was only that quote and not the second quote that got publicity.
It's almost as if there were an agenda in relation to Corbyn even from those on the Remain side. [Post edited 27 Jan 13:18]
| | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:17 - Jan 27 with 585 views | jasondozzell |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:11 - Jan 27 by Blueschev |
"Just weeks before the vote, he famously told Channel 4’s The Last Leg that his enthusiasm for EU membership was about “seven, or seven and a half out of 10”.
I remember the faux outrage about that comment at the time. What was he supposed to say? 10/10+? It's a stupid question, and surely even the most staunch Remainer wouldn't have claimed the EU was perfect. |
Yep.
There's a particular place in hell for a certain type of 'FBPE', 'people's vote,' James O'Brien liking, anti Corbyn centrist who fought tooth and nail to have the 'adults back in the room' like Starmer. They were all had and some still don't realise it. People's vote was set up because they saw an opportunity to attack Corbyn over it.
And I say that as remainer! |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:17 - Jan 27 with 585 views | giant_stow |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:00 - Jan 27 by Herbivore |
If we're going to have a debate about what led to Brexit, I'm pretty sure dodgy Russian money, the lies and electoral breaches by the leave campaign, and all the Cambridge Analytica stuff were far more influential than a guy who looks like a substitute geography teacher not being as visible and enthusiastic as he could have been. |
What you say there all rightly describes the Leave side's strength, but doesn't talk about the Remain side's weakness.
There was no one really arguing for the softer, 'left leaning' reasons for remaining,. like how we need immigration, how's it nice to be able travel freely in Europe, or lovely for our kids to go collage over there etc. To me, that was Corbyn's end, which is let down. |  |
| |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:18 - Jan 27 with 579 views | Blueschev |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:10 - Jan 27 by DJR |
Is it me, or is this thread with its focus on Brexit beginning to seem like a typical James O'Brien radio show of the last 10 years? |
Who gets the roll of patronising know it all with the loudest microphone? |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:35 - Jan 27 with 534 views | Herbivore |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:17 - Jan 27 by giant_stow |
What you say there all rightly describes the Leave side's strength, but doesn't talk about the Remain side's weakness.
There was no one really arguing for the softer, 'left leaning' reasons for remaining,. like how we need immigration, how's it nice to be able travel freely in Europe, or lovely for our kids to go collage over there etc. To me, that was Corbyn's end, which is let down. |
I think there were people making those arguments, but let's be real - Corbyn was never going to cut through to red wall Labour voters or to Tory/UKIP voters and those were the ones who voted for Brexit. Could Corbyn have done more? Maybe, but you've got people on here pointing out how he was never pro-EU so how much would him being visible as the face of remain have made a positive impact? And you've got people on here pointing out it would have been hypocritical for him to be pushing hard for remain when he didn't really believe in it.
So basically he's damned either way, which kind of gets back to the point that anyone left of centre is always going to be massively up against it when it comes to media coverage and public perception. That's not to say Corbyn wasn't massively flawed as a leader, I've said many times that he was and I wasn't a big fan of him as an individual even if his politics was closer to mine than any other major political leader. | |
| |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:44 - Jan 27 with 525 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:17 - Jan 27 by giant_stow |
What you say there all rightly describes the Leave side's strength, but doesn't talk about the Remain side's weakness.
There was no one really arguing for the softer, 'left leaning' reasons for remaining,. like how we need immigration, how's it nice to be able travel freely in Europe, or lovely for our kids to go collage over there etc. To me, that was Corbyn's end, which is let down. |
It was the left-leaning aspect of the EU that had turned those on the left from anti-EU to pro-EU. Hence the Parliamentary Labour party was overwhelmingly pro-remain.
But Project Fear had worked in the Scottish independence referendum, and "those who knew best" thought it work for the EU referendum. There might even have been a calculation that stressing the left-leaning aspects of the EU might be counter-productive in England and Wales where the right was in the ascendency.
I was one of the very few in the constituency who campaigned on the streets for remain (even our very pro-EU Tory MP was absent because he didn't want to upset the leavers in his local party) but my view at the time was that the internationalist aspects of the EU (some of which you mention) should have been stressed much more. Putting it another way, the leave campaign appealed successfully to the emotions and the remain campaign appealed unsuccessfully to what might be called "reason". [Post edited 27 Jan 13:46]
| | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 14:10 - Jan 27 with 494 views | Blueschev |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:44 - Jan 27 by DJR |
It was the left-leaning aspect of the EU that had turned those on the left from anti-EU to pro-EU. Hence the Parliamentary Labour party was overwhelmingly pro-remain.
But Project Fear had worked in the Scottish independence referendum, and "those who knew best" thought it work for the EU referendum. There might even have been a calculation that stressing the left-leaning aspects of the EU might be counter-productive in England and Wales where the right was in the ascendency.
I was one of the very few in the constituency who campaigned on the streets for remain (even our very pro-EU Tory MP was absent because he didn't want to upset the leavers in his local party) but my view at the time was that the internationalist aspects of the EU (some of which you mention) should have been stressed much more. Putting it another way, the leave campaign appealed successfully to the emotions and the remain campaign appealed unsuccessfully to what might be called "reason". [Post edited 27 Jan 13:46]
|
I'd add that leave was a much easier sell than remain. Leave could be all things to all people, whatever they wanted, as it did not yet exist. Far easier to to sell the new Jerusalem than it is the status quo. It was always going to be tough, and was certainly not aided by the arrogance of large parts of the remain campaign, who appeared to look down on anybody who had a differing opinion. | | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 14:52 - Jan 27 with 459 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:17 - Jan 27 by giant_stow |
What you say there all rightly describes the Leave side's strength, but doesn't talk about the Remain side's weakness.
There was no one really arguing for the softer, 'left leaning' reasons for remaining,. like how we need immigration, how's it nice to be able travel freely in Europe, or lovely for our kids to go collage over there etc. To me, that was Corbyn's end, which is let down. |
I came across this on Labour List from a speech Corbyn made on the EU a full two months before the referendum. I believe he made many more such speeches but I doubt they were widely reported with a hostile press.
"The move to hold this referendum may have been more about managing divisions in the Conservative party. But it is now a crucial democratic opportunity for people to have their say on our country’s future, and the future of our continent as a whole.
The Labour Party is overwhelmingly for staying in because we believe the European Union has brought: investment, jobs and protection for workers, consumers and the environment, and offers the best chance of meeting the challenges we face in the 21st century. Labour is convinced that a vote to remain is in the best interests of the people of this country.
In the coming century, we face huge challenges, as a people, as a continent and as a global community. How to deal with climate change. How to address the overweening power of global corporations and ensure they pay fair taxes. How to tackle cyber-crime and terrorism. How to ensure we trade fairly and protect jobs and pay in an era of globalisation. How to address the causes of the huge refugee movements across the world, and how we adapt to a world where people everywhere move more frequently to live, work and retire.
All these issues are serious and pressing, and self-evidently require international co-operation. Collective international action through the European Union is clearly going to be vital to meeting these challenges. Britain will be stronger if we co-operate with our neighbours in facing them together.
As Portugal’s new Socialist Prime Minister, Antonio Costa, has said: ‘in the face of all these crises around us. We must not divide Europe – we must strengthen it.’
When the last referendum was held in 1975, Europe was divided by the Cold War, and what later became the EU was a much smaller, purely market-driven arrangement. Over the years I have been critical of many decisions taken by the EU, and I remain critical of its shortcomings; from its lack of democratic accountability to the institutional pressure to deregulate or privatise public services.
So Europe needs to change. But that change can only come from working with our allies in the EU. It’s perfectly possible to be critical and still be convinced we need to remain a member.
I’ve even had a few differences with the direction the Labour Party’s taken over the past few years but I have been sure that it was right to stay a member some might say I’ve even managed to do something about changing that direction.
In contrast to four decades ago, the EU of today brings together most of the countries of Europe and has developed important employment, environmental and consumer protections.
I have listened closely to the views of trade unions, environmental groups, human rights organisations and of course to Labour Party members and supporters, and fellow MPs. They are overwhelmingly convinced that we can best make a positive difference by remaining in Europe.
Britain needs to stay in the EU as the best framework for trade, manufacturing and cooperation in 21st century Europe. Tens of billion pounds-worth of investment and millions of jobs are linked to our relationship with the EU, the biggest market in the world.
EU membership has guaranteed working people vital employment rights, including four weeks’ paid holiday, maternity and paternity leave, protections for agency workers and health and safety in the workplace. Being in the EU has raised Britain’s environmental standards, from beaches to air quality, and protected consumers from rip-off charges.
But we also need to make the case for reform in Europe – the reform David Cameron’s Government has no interest in, but plenty of others across Europe do.
That means democratic reform to make the EU more accountable to its people. Economic reform to end to self-defeating austerity and put jobs and sustainable growth at the centre of European policy, labour market reform to strengthen and extend workers’ rights in a real social Europe. And new rights for governments and elected authorities to support public enterprise and halt the pressure to privatise services.
So the case I’m making is for ‘Remain – and Reform’ in Europe."
Who'd've thunk it.  [Post edited 27 Jan 14:55]
| | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 15:15 - Jan 27 with 422 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 12:42 - Jan 27 by GlasgowBlue |
Owen Smith and the pro EU wing of the Labour party launched a leadership challenge against Corbyn because of his lacklustre performance in the referendum. He even bvggered off on holiday halfway through the campaign. |
If the Sun is anything to go by it was a short break in the Whitsun recess roughly a month before the referendum.
Of course it was spun against him and made out to be worse than it was, but do you thing Remain would have won if he hadn't gone on that break? [Post edited 27 Jan 18:16]
| | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 15:29 - Jan 27 with 398 views | DJR |
The funny thing on this thread is that I must come across as a Corbynista but I never was and never voted for him as leader of the party.
Indeed, I believed a lot of the nonsense that was written about him very early on, only to realise that if one dug deeper, there was often little or no truth in it. An ASLEF protest outside my local station that I attended was the probably the first time when I realised that an anti-Corbyn story in relation to the protest nationally in the media had no basis in fact.
As Peter Oborne observed.
"Collectively they show that everything written in the papers about Jeremy Corbyn should be assumed false unless proved otherwise. It’s the wild west out there for the former Labour leader: any smear will do, however false and malicious, and Britain’s mainstream media is often ready to leap to attention."
And I suppose my British sense of fair play just thinks that's wrong. [Post edited 27 Jan 18:19]
| | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 17:53 - Jan 27 with 333 views | reusersfreekicks |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 15:29 - Jan 27 by DJR |
The funny thing on this thread is that I must come across as a Corbynista but I never was and never voted for him as leader of the party.
Indeed, I believed a lot of the nonsense that was written about him very early on, only to realise that if one dug deeper, there was often little or no truth in it. An ASLEF protest outside my local station that I attended was the probably the first time when I realised that an anti-Corbyn story in relation to the protest nationally in the media had no basis in fact.
As Peter Oborne observed.
"Collectively they show that everything written in the papers about Jeremy Corbyn should be assumed false unless proved otherwise. It’s the wild west out there for the former Labour leader: any smear will do, however false and malicious, and Britain’s mainstream media is often ready to leap to attention."
And I suppose my British sense of fair play just thinks that's wrong. [Post edited 27 Jan 18:19]
|
Yep more and more coming to light re the powers that be getting after him in every way possible.
Not a supporter of his by any means but everyone jumping on the bandwagon of revelations leaves a nasty taste |  | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 08:13 - Jan 28 with 255 views | DJR |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 17:53 - Jan 27 by reusersfreekicks |
Yep more and more coming to light re the powers that be getting after him in every way possible.
Not a supporter of his by any means but everyone jumping on the bandwagon of revelations leaves a nasty taste |
The scary thing for me was how easy it was to influence public opinion against one person when the political class (with the exception of a handful of Labour MPs) and the media (with the exception of Owen Jones) were hostile to Corbyn.
You then saw people trotting out tropes that they'd read, and those tropes being accepted as truth.
The problem to me though was that those tropes also had the effect of completely closing down debate which isn't in my view how things should happen.
In footballing terms, it was playing the man not the ball. And I for one think that isn't what should happen in a properly functioning liberal democracy.
And it's why I don't engage in personal attacks on people like Trump or Farage (or their supporters) but am more than happy to challenge or condemn the policies they promote. [Post edited 28 Jan 8:23]
| | | |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 09:01 - Jan 28 with 207 views | Swansea_Blue |
| They'll block him (Andy Burnham) on 13:00 - Jan 27 by Herbivore |
If we're going to have a debate about what led to Brexit, I'm pretty sure dodgy Russian money, the lies and electoral breaches by the leave campaign, and all the Cambridge Analytica stuff were far more influential than a guy who looks like a substitute geography teacher not being as visible and enthusiastic as he could have been. |
Indeed. Corbyn’s ‘crime’ over Brexit was being farkin useless, but he’s very much not to blame. His ineffective stance though was I think a portent of what could be if he became PM. He would have been a weak PM, although that didn’t stop me voting for the Labour candidate in 2019 as we were in a two horse race with the other being a Tory who thought people on benefits should be culled ( https://news.sky.com/story/gen |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
