| Another U-turn incoming on 15:54 - Feb 18 with 315 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another U-turn incoming on 14:23 - Feb 18 by DarkBrandon |
We've increased the minimum wage a *LOT* in recent years.
Eventually if we do that the number of jobs available will fall, and it could well be we are reaching that point. As others have said the NI increases on business further increase the cost of employing people.
I'm not convinced Labour are close enough to (or listen enough to) business, hence they get into this mess.
But their constant U-turns are infuriating. They can't go on like this. |
If they're delaying further increases becasueo of concerns from businesses that it will impact employment, doesn't that mean they are close enough to be listening? |  |
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| Another U-turn incoming on 17:04 - Feb 18 with 227 views | Radlett_blue |
| Another U-turn incoming on 15:15 - Feb 18 by DJR |
I know you don't like Corbyn but I campaigned on the streets during the 2017 election and, with Corbyn during an election campaign given a fair platform in the broadcast media, there was a very noticeable shift to him over the campaign from people under, say, 45 whom I spoke to and who felt the system wasn't working for them.
And in the case of such people, it was nothing to do with Brexit or how badly May performed.
With the move away from social democracy (which both the Tories and Labour once supported), the system hasn't really worked for an increasingly large number of people these last 45 years and long gone is the sort of corporate paternalism that used to exist where the bottom line wasn't the shareholders.
Corbyn was flawed but there was something there that could have been built on. Indeed, it looked like Starmer could be that man given the platform he stood on to be leader.
But sadly it was a con and the baby was thrown out with the bathwater.
[Post edited 18 Feb 15:24]
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Most of your post made sense. Corbyn's policies appealed to lots of young people who hadn't previously bothered to vote & that's why Labour confounded the pollsters (& the hapless May) in 2017. However, Labour were still unlikely to win power with a Socialist agenda so along came Starmer with his Blairite (Tory lite) strategy. That won him a resounding victory and while the Tories have thrown up some awful PMs in recent times (notably Truss) I don't think I've ever seen anyone as weak & indecisive as Starmer, especially with such a big majority. With the unpopularity of the government, the Greens are hoovering up support & it's not hard to see why the left of the Labour party think they might as well jettison Starmer & put a real Socialist in charge as Starmer is pleasing nobidy. |  |
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| Another U-turn incoming on 17:23 - Feb 18 with 210 views | RadioOrwell |
| Another U-turn incoming on 13:53 - Feb 18 by itfcjoe |
Easy to say that if you aren't running one |
Can't afford wages.
Can afford dividends/ rent / rates / stock / materials / Tech / Software / travel / transport / marketing / advertising ...
righto |  | | |
| Another U-turn incoming on 17:49 - Feb 18 with 179 views | DJR |
| Another U-turn incoming on 17:04 - Feb 18 by Radlett_blue |
Most of your post made sense. Corbyn's policies appealed to lots of young people who hadn't previously bothered to vote & that's why Labour confounded the pollsters (& the hapless May) in 2017. However, Labour were still unlikely to win power with a Socialist agenda so along came Starmer with his Blairite (Tory lite) strategy. That won him a resounding victory and while the Tories have thrown up some awful PMs in recent times (notably Truss) I don't think I've ever seen anyone as weak & indecisive as Starmer, especially with such a big majority. With the unpopularity of the government, the Greens are hoovering up support & it's not hard to see why the left of the Labour party think they might as well jettison Starmer & put a real Socialist in charge as Starmer is pleasing nobidy. |
I can't work out if you are damning me with faint praise. 
But the policies that you call socialist (such as nationalisation of utilities) was supported by the Tories prior to 1975. It's just that the centre of gravity has moved so far to the right since then.
As it is, whilst I was a passionate supporter of the nationalised utilities at the time, it strikes me that the utilities are so broken and not fit for purpose that changing the form of ownership may make not a jot of difference.
As regards those behind what I call the project (Labour Together) I had always thought that Wes Streeting (deeply involved in the project) was the person they would preferred to have had as leader, although the mantel may now have passed to Mahmood.
But people like him didn't engage with Corbyn in the way that Starmer did, so Starmer was their only realistic candidate. And his issues could be said to include a lack of political nous and also the fact that he was not such a true believer as Streeting and the rest, which only added to his problems.
Finally the left of the party has limited involvement in the current Parliamentary party, and the bar to stand for leadership (81 candidates) means the the only possible (soft) left candidate that would be put to members is Rayner. And I rather doubt that the membership would vote for Streeting or Mahmood, so the Labour Together lot are a bit b*ggered because they probably hate someone with Rayner's politics as much as they hate Corbyn. They certainly never liked Brown or Miliband because they regarded both as too left wing, as they do in relation to Burnham. [Post edited 18 Feb 18:01]
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| Another U-turn incoming on 17:51 - Feb 18 with 176 views | MattinLondon |
| Another U-turn incoming on 17:23 - Feb 18 by RadioOrwell |
Can't afford wages.
Can afford dividends/ rent / rates / stock / materials / Tech / Software / travel / transport / marketing / advertising ...
righto |
Employer.
I have to put up my prices due to electricity bills etc.
I have to put up my prices due to materials costing up.
I have to put up my prices due to increased rent and travel expenses
Employee
I need a wage rise to cover bills, rent and other such increases.
Employer
F**k off. [Post edited 18 Feb 17:52]
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| Another U-turn incoming on 18:21 - Feb 18 with 147 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Another U-turn incoming on 17:51 - Feb 18 by MattinLondon |
Employer.
I have to put up my prices due to electricity bills etc.
I have to put up my prices due to materials costing up.
I have to put up my prices due to increased rent and travel expenses
Employee
I need a wage rise to cover bills, rent and other such increases.
Employer
F**k off. [Post edited 18 Feb 17:52]
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Businesses aren’t withholding pay rises though (not that the NI uplift goes to workers anyway). They are slowing down hiring which is showing through in the stats now with unemployment rising. Wages aren’t so much the issue as the crippling cost of living in this country- particularly housing costs and energy, both are driven by poor government policy over the last couple of decades. Relentlessly putting up the minimum wage is just adding to the cost of living and is poor governance- there should be much more done to tackle the underlying drivers of the cost of living.
Simply shouting ‘but the shareholders’ etc is lazy populism, the majority of our working population is employed by SME’s with slim margins. The energy crisis and COVID put more UK SME’s out of business than the GFC. |  | | |
| Another U-turn incoming on 18:36 - Feb 18 with 124 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Another U-turn incoming on 13:53 - Feb 18 by itfcjoe |
Easy to say that if you aren't running one |
I am, when we employ youngsters they get £15/hour for basic gardening work. |  |
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| Another U-turn incoming on 18:42 - Feb 18 with 118 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Another U-turn incoming on 14:49 - Feb 18 by MattinLondon |
The average single person cannot afford a house - that aspiration has been taken away from them by successive governments. It’s a real struggle even for a couple to afford to get on the housing ladder.
Young people in particular have little hope - once upon a time it was a case of working hard, save up and buying a house was a real possibility. Now it’s work hard, pay the rent to some landlord and maybe they’ll keep that house to a good condition and then pay the bills and then go further into your overdraft. It’s utter bollox.
And then, they’ll be the ones paying for an ageing population, the NHS and for Brexit and all for much lower wages than then previous generations (in proportion to outgoings).
If young people just simply said ‘screw this country, I’m off’ I wouldn’t blame them in the least. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ | |
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| Another U-turn incoming on 18:52 - Feb 18 with 106 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Another U-turn incoming on 17:23 - Feb 18 by RadioOrwell |
Can't afford wages.
Can afford dividends/ rent / rates / stock / materials / Tech / Software / travel / transport / marketing / advertising ...
righto |
Can afford a tidy profit margin?? | |
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| Another U-turn incoming on 18:55 - Feb 18 with 98 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Another U-turn incoming on 18:21 - Feb 18 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Businesses aren’t withholding pay rises though (not that the NI uplift goes to workers anyway). They are slowing down hiring which is showing through in the stats now with unemployment rising. Wages aren’t so much the issue as the crippling cost of living in this country- particularly housing costs and energy, both are driven by poor government policy over the last couple of decades. Relentlessly putting up the minimum wage is just adding to the cost of living and is poor governance- there should be much more done to tackle the underlying drivers of the cost of living.
Simply shouting ‘but the shareholders’ etc is lazy populism, the majority of our working population is employed by SME’s with slim margins. The energy crisis and COVID put more UK SME’s out of business than the GFC. |
I bet you wouldn't get out of bed for £10/hour and you'd be right not to. | |
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| Another U-turn incoming on 20:04 - Feb 18 with 33 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Another U-turn incoming on 18:55 - Feb 18 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I bet you wouldn't get out of bed for £10/hour and you'd be right not to. |
I’ve worked for less than that.
What’s your solution to having the most expensive house prices in the West and world’s most expensive energy. Hardly conducive to running a small business. If SME’s aren’t viable we are just left with a dystopian world of mega-corps like Amazon. If you genuinely think SME’s are awash with capital, why have so many failed? | | | |
| Another U-turn incoming on 20:08 - Feb 18 with 25 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Another U-turn incoming on 17:51 - Feb 18 by MattinLondon |
Employer.
I have to put up my prices due to electricity bills etc.
I have to put up my prices due to materials costing up.
I have to put up my prices due to increased rent and travel expenses
Employee
I need a wage rise to cover bills, rent and other such increases.
Employer
F**k off. [Post edited 18 Feb 17:52]
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As an employer for over twenty five years I don't recognise that at all. |  |
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