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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 07:56 - Mar 18 by BanksterDebtSlave
Thanks for the reply with which I respectfully disagree. Are you saying that you don't think Trump's actions have been strongly molded by Nethanyahoo and the wider Israeli lobby? Did you catch Jetemy Bowen on PM yesterday having to tip toe around words for fearing falling foul of definitions rather than speaking freely yesterday? It must be 10 to 15 minutes in if I remember correctly.
It has always been the case that the US is staunchly pro-Israel, so I don't really see this as being much different, except that at the present time both Israel and the US have leaders who appear to have no boundaries. My view is that Trump didn't move a vast arsenal to the Middle East just for fun, and that Trump is just going after the three current top bogeymen of the Republican right, namely, Venezuela, Cuba and Iran. Of course, Netanyahu is much more canny and less mercurial than Trump, and is no doubt more than happy to carry on making hay at a time when Trump has got himself into a bit of a pickle.
As regards Jeremy Bowen, my objection is to the word puppet master which I assumed he didn't use but it does strike me that the BBC has become increasingly timid given all the criticism it receives on all fronts in a way that, say, Sky News isn't.
EDIT: when I get a chance, I'll listen to it.
[Post edited 18 Mar 8:22]
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 08:26 - Mar 18 with 1088 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 08:12 - Mar 18 by DJR
It has always been the case that the US is staunchly pro-Israel, so I don't really see this as being much different, except that at the present time both Israel and the US have leaders who appear to have no boundaries. My view is that Trump didn't move a vast arsenal to the Middle East just for fun, and that Trump is just going after the three current top bogeymen of the Republican right, namely, Venezuela, Cuba and Iran. Of course, Netanyahu is much more canny and less mercurial than Trump, and is no doubt more than happy to carry on making hay at a time when Trump has got himself into a bit of a pickle.
As regards Jeremy Bowen, my objection is to the word puppet master which I assumed he didn't use but it does strike me that the BBC has become increasingly timid given all the criticism it receives on all fronts in a way that, say, Sky News isn't.
EDIT: when I get a chance, I'll listen to it.
[Post edited 18 Mar 8:22]
He was falling over himself to not finish a sentence referring to disproportionate influence from the Israeli lobby, so pretty much the same supposed trope.
Edit...I couldn't find a link which I could see time stamps on.
[Post edited 18 Mar 8:27]
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 20:46 - Mar 17 by StokieBlue
The issue is that regardless of which bits are true and false in his letter, I don't think it's right to ban language because of historical context which is what you've argued for repeatedly over the last week. At least that is my reading of your posts, please correct me if that isn't the case.
Here you've said that Trump is weak enough to be persuaded by Netanyahu. How is that any different to saying things that you said were tropes?
The language is different but they mean the same things when distilled down to the facts of the situation in that Israel have manipulated the US into this course of action.
I'm clearly missing something here so explain it to me.
SB
This is from the bloke attacking a simple well intentioned happy Patrick’s day thread yesterday. Who posted sectarianism nonsense during the old firm. Who decides himself in consort with Irish links to his family what is and isn’t offensive to the Irish.
It is hypocrisy, plain and simple, and the mask has well and truly slipped.
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 08:41 - Mar 18 by vapour_trail
This is from the bloke attacking a simple well intentioned happy Patrick’s day thread yesterday. Who posted sectarianism nonsense during the old firm. Who decides himself in consort with Irish links to his family what is and isn’t offensive to the Irish.
It is hypocrisy, plain and simple, and the mask has well and truly slipped.
Attacked? Oh give over. My St Patrick post was in reply to Lagos thread, who on St George’s day last year did a light hearted post about St George being born in Turkey to a Palestinian mum.
So this St George fella by bluelagos23 Apr 2024 8:32 Given that he is from Turkey, had a Palestinian mum and never set foot in England, how did he come to be our national saint?
And a happy St George's day to all those posters who celebrate it.
These “St George was Turkish etc” threads come up every year on here. No one takes offence or throws their toys out of the pram.
I posted that St Patrick was born in England and people will be celebrating by drinking millions of pints of beer brewed by a company set up by unionist Tories in a similar light hearted vein.
I’ve always had a great affection fur St Patrick’s day as it was the day my late parents chose to get married and the two will always be connected in my mind.
This grudge against me is consuming you to the extent that you are dragging it into completely unrelated threads. It’s weird stalking and I had understood you had assured Phil this “odd” behaviour would stop.
[Post edited 18 Mar 9:10]
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:33 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue
Well he's certainly economical with the truth.
"lost my beloved wife Shannon in a war manufactured by Israel"
His wife was killed in 2019 by an ISIS suicide in Syria
“This was a lie and is the same tactic the Israelis used to draw us into the disastrous Iraq war that cost our nation the lives of thousands of our best men and women".
Sharon repeatedly warned Bush against going into Iraq. Col. Lawrence Wilkerson Colin Powell’s chief of staff stated in 2007: "The Israelis were telling us Iraq is not the enemy. Iran is the enemY. They [Israel] were saying, 'You can manage Iraq. Why are you going to go in and change this? It’s going to destabilize the region.'"
He seems a very complicated chap with ties to Nazi sympathisers and Holocaust deniers.
It's quite funny watching people who previously would have viewed Joe Kent as an extremist with his ties to white supremacists, claims that the 2020 election was rigged and pushed conspiracy theories about the Capitol riot, now suddenly hail him as a man of principles because he's saying what they want to hear.
[Post edited 17 Mar 17:38]
Not pushing him at all.
Trump literally appointed him (which makes sense given his political/conspiracy leanings), yet denied yesterday really knowing who he was even though he was his Director of Counter Intelligence.
"He seems a very complicated chap with ties to Nazi sympathisers and Holocaust deniers" - A sentence that could be uttered about Trump or many of his inner circle.
I'm not sure what 'gotcha' you are angling for today, but there are no winners here.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 09:41 - Mar 18 with 981 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:41 - Mar 17 by pointofblue
He's probably another Marjorie Taylor Greene - true MAGA rather than acting MAGA like Trump. Doesn't make them any more pleasant, but more steadfast in what their principles are, rather than blowing in the wind.
For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to.
"For all of the accusations of Israel instigating the war, Trump would not get involved unless he wanted to"
That's a lovely sweet fairytale until you look under the hood of who drives Trump and MAGA politics
Trump's own intelligence departments were saying no. He went to war on the advice of two real estate brokers and pressure from Netanyahu.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 09:46 - Mar 18 with 958 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 21:42 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue
Indeed. When I reasonably pointed out to a poster that they had unintentionally used an anti semitic trope of which they may not have been aware by referring to Netanyahu as Trump's puppet master, I honestly expected that poster to take those comments onboard and avoid using problematic language in the future. There ere plenty of ways to describe Netanyahu's relationship with Trump without resorting to centuries old tropes. Instead, they went onto another thread, doubled down and repeated the trope. To me, that shows intent.
Yet, I told you there was no intent.
So accusing someone of being anti-Semitic is really not on for this board or any other forum, but here you are continuing to push a false narrative.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 09:46 - Mar 18 with 958 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 07:56 - Mar 18 by BanksterDebtSlave
Thanks for the reply with which I respectfully disagree. Are you saying that you don't think Trump's actions have been strongly molded by Nethanyahoo and the wider Israeli lobby? Did you catch Jetemy Bowen on PM yesterday having to tip toe around words for fearing falling foul of definitions rather than speaking freely yesterday? It must be 10 to 15 minutes in if I remember correctly.
I would argue that the rather than from the Israeli's themselves, the current US actions in Iran are being influenced by the numerous Evangelical Christian fundamentalists in the current administration. Who believe that by setting the Middle East on fire, they are fast-tracking the return of Christ and the end of the world. I have no doubt that the Israeli's see this as a once in a blue moon opportunity to cripple Iran as an kind of military competitor, as they have been pushing for such actions for decades. But that's not the same as them being Trump's so called puppet masters.
The antisemitic connotations of such a framing seem pretty obvious to me, though they may not to others. Having said that I very much doubt there was any racist intent by anyone on this board.
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 09:46 - Mar 18 by ElderGrizzly
Yet, I told you there was no intent.
So accusing someone of being anti-Semitic is really not on for this board or any other forum, but here you are continuing to push a false narrative.
I didn't accuse you of being anti semitic. I said you unintentionally posted an anti semitic trope and that perhaps edit the problematic language as there were ways to express Bibi's relationship with Trump without using Nazi styler phrases like puppeteer.
Instead of taking onboard that advice, you went onto another thread and repeated the trope using the phrase "Netanyahu pulling Trump's strings". Once is careless. Twice is intent.
Both DJR and I have set out the reasons why using that sort of language and imaginary is anti semitic. There is no false narrative.
Would you refer to Black For Trump as "Trump's slaves"? or "Trump's house boys"? When there are less problematic ways to express Black Republicans who openly support Trump?
[Post edited 18 Mar 10:47]
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 09:46 - Mar 18 by Blueschev
I would argue that the rather than from the Israeli's themselves, the current US actions in Iran are being influenced by the numerous Evangelical Christian fundamentalists in the current administration. Who believe that by setting the Middle East on fire, they are fast-tracking the return of Christ and the end of the world. I have no doubt that the Israeli's see this as a once in a blue moon opportunity to cripple Iran as an kind of military competitor, as they have been pushing for such actions for decades. But that's not the same as them being Trump's so called puppet masters.
The antisemitic connotations of such a framing seem pretty obvious to me, though they may not to others. Having said that I very much doubt there was any racist intent by anyone on this board.
I've said this. I don't believe there is racist intent when using these tropes on here. More down to ignorance. But when it's pointed out, as you, I and DJR have done then it's concerning that people continue to repeat them and double down.
edit. Re your first point. I'm not so sure this is being driven by the evangelicals. To me it's coming from the neocons, who are completely at odds with MAGA over foreign policy and have been tickling Trump's tummy recently. If Cheney was still alive he would be all over this.
[Post edited 18 Mar 10:33]
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 10:23 - Mar 18 by GlasgowBlue
I've said this. I don't believe there is racist intent when using these tropes on here. More down to ignorance. But when it's pointed out, as you, I and DJR have done then it's concerning that people continue to repeat them and double down.
edit. Re your first point. I'm not so sure this is being driven by the evangelicals. To me it's coming from the neocons, who are completely at odds with MAGA over foreign policy and have been tickling Trump's tummy recently. If Cheney was still alive he would be all over this.
[Post edited 18 Mar 10:33]
I agree regime change in Iran is very much a goal of the Neocons, John Bolton was strongly in favour of this intervention when interviewed on Andrew Marr this week, despite being quite scathing of Trump. I'm not sure that they have Trump's ear in the same way the Evangelicals do, however. And the latter's fanatical end goal is far bigger than make America great again, more make Jesus return again.
[Post edited 18 Mar 11:01]
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 11:04 - Mar 18 with 780 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 10:52 - Mar 18 by Blueschev
I agree regime change in Iran is very much a goal of the Neocons, John Bolton was strongly in favour of this intervention when interviewed on Andrew Marr this week, despite being quite scathing of Trump. I'm not sure that they have Trump's ear in the same way the Evangelicals do, however. And the latter's fanatical end goal is far bigger than make America great again, more make Jesus return again.
[Post edited 18 Mar 11:01]
And the end of days is at odds with modern Israeli thinking. Only the crackpots from the Neturei Karta group, who believe that the modern State of Israel is an abomination and can't exist until the Messiah returns, believes in this nonsense.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 11:04 - Mar 18 by GlasgowBlue
And the end of days is at odds with modern Israeli thinking. Only the crackpots from the Neturei Karta group, who believe that the modern State of Israel is an abomination and can't exist until the Messiah returns, believes in this nonsense.
I'd expect that the Israelis, or rather the Israeli government, view the Christian Zionists as useful idiots given their fanatical support for their country. Whilst quietly ignoring their apocalyptic and genocidal end goal.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 12:44 - Mar 18 with 665 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 18:00 - Mar 17 by GlasgowBlue
Trump is weak enough to be persuaded by Netanyahu into taking action against Iran, with no actual plan in place. Plus the neo cons like Rubio would have been telling how great he would be for going along with it.
But people can say that without falling back on tired old tropes. Daniel Sugarman sums it up well here.
Dan Sugarman called it. Kent live on Tucker Carlson tonight.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 08:26 - Mar 18 by BanksterDebtSlave
He was falling over himself to not finish a sentence referring to disproportionate influence from the Israeli lobby, so pretty much the same supposed trope.
Edit...I couldn't find a link which I could see time stamps on.
[Post edited 18 Mar 8:27]
It turns out I heard this go out live but listening again Bowen makes no mention of the Israel lobby which I think that was a phrase Kent used in his resignation message.
Bowen did say that support for Israel from Democrats has plunged since the war in Gaza, which along with the fact that an increasing element of the MAGA movement no longer seem to support Israel, and some are in fact openly antisemitic, could be said to mean that the so-called Israel lobby ain't what it used to be.
What Bowen did say about Netanyahu is that he appears to be able to influence Trump but it is often said that Trump agrees with the last person he spoke to anyway, and to me that is a long way from saying Netanyahu is a puppet master. Indeed, my impression of them is that they are a bit like two kids in a sweet shop trying to egg each other on to steal while the shopkeeper isn't looking.
I would also like to point that I am not suggesting anyone on this thread is antisemitic.
[Post edited 18 Mar 13:51]
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 13:59 - Mar 18 with 537 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 13:45 - Mar 18 by DJR
It turns out I heard this go out live but listening again Bowen makes no mention of the Israel lobby which I think that was a phrase Kent used in his resignation message.
Bowen did say that support for Israel from Democrats has plunged since the war in Gaza, which along with the fact that an increasing element of the MAGA movement no longer seem to support Israel, and some are in fact openly antisemitic, could be said to mean that the so-called Israel lobby ain't what it used to be.
What Bowen did say about Netanyahu is that he appears to be able to influence Trump but it is often said that Trump agrees with the last person he spoke to anyway, and to me that is a long way from saying Netanyahu is a puppet master. Indeed, my impression of them is that they are a bit like two kids in a sweet shop trying to egg each other on to steal while the shopkeeper isn't looking.
I would also like to point that I am not suggesting anyone on this thread is antisemitic.
[Post edited 18 Mar 13:51]
Two Jews talk about Zionism and the Israel lobby and their histories.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 14:57 - Mar 18 with 480 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 13:45 - Mar 18 by DJR
It turns out I heard this go out live but listening again Bowen makes no mention of the Israel lobby which I think that was a phrase Kent used in his resignation message.
Bowen did say that support for Israel from Democrats has plunged since the war in Gaza, which along with the fact that an increasing element of the MAGA movement no longer seem to support Israel, and some are in fact openly antisemitic, could be said to mean that the so-called Israel lobby ain't what it used to be.
What Bowen did say about Netanyahu is that he appears to be able to influence Trump but it is often said that Trump agrees with the last person he spoke to anyway, and to me that is a long way from saying Netanyahu is a puppet master. Indeed, my impression of them is that they are a bit like two kids in a sweet shop trying to egg each other on to steal while the shopkeeper isn't looking.
I would also like to point that I am not suggesting anyone on this thread is antisemitic.
[Post edited 18 Mar 13:51]
It did seem inevitable that at some point the Evangelical lunatics supporting Trump would clash with the Q conspiracy lunatics and the antisemitic undertones that underpin their worldview. Seems people such as Tucker Carlson have spotted a gap in the market to exploit the latter.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:32 - Mar 18 with 417 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 08:41 - Mar 18 by vapour_trail
This is from the bloke attacking a simple well intentioned happy Patrick’s day thread yesterday. Who posted sectarianism nonsense during the old firm. Who decides himself in consort with Irish links to his family what is and isn’t offensive to the Irish.
It is hypocrisy, plain and simple, and the mask has well and truly slipped.
I agree with your post. It is something, I regret to say, I have noticed as well.
It was also great to see our Taoiseach in Washington yesterday taking time to defend Europe and Keir Starmer in such a principled, diplomatic and dignified way.
fka omuircheartaigh
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 17:28 - Mar 18 with 339 views
Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 16:32 - Mar 18 by Moriarty
I agree with your post. It is something, I regret to say, I have noticed as well.
It was also great to see our Taoiseach in Washington yesterday taking time to defend Europe and Keir Starmer in such a principled, diplomatic and dignified way.
I'll take that from you Moriarty, as you are somebody I like and respect on this board. This place is always better for having you on here.
If I caused offence then I apologise. None was meant.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 10:23 - Mar 18 by GlasgowBlue
I've said this. I don't believe there is racist intent when using these tropes on here. More down to ignorance. But when it's pointed out, as you, I and DJR have done then it's concerning that people continue to repeat them and double down.
edit. Re your first point. I'm not so sure this is being driven by the evangelicals. To me it's coming from the neocons, who are completely at odds with MAGA over foreign policy and have been tickling Trump's tummy recently. If Cheney was still alive he would be all over this.
[Post edited 18 Mar 10:33]
The Cheney who voted for Harris? Don't think so
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 18:31 - Mar 18 with 256 views
Now his boss is admitting there was no nuclear threat
She then went on to say Trump is the only person who can decide what is an imminent threat. Not her or the intelligence community, whose literal job it is.
What a mess.
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Trump’s Director of Counter Terrorism just resigned, blamed Israel on 19:50 - Mar 18 with 178 views
Just as most MAGA Trump voters are dead set against it. Little Marco is Cheney's torch bearer in the administration these days. He'll move Trump onto Cuba next.
[Post edited 18 Mar 21:36]
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