| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 22:24 - Apr 16 with 1190 views | redrickstuhaart |
Watch them complain about the "animals" attacking them, when the next generation of martyrs with nothing to lose, and dead families fall into the hands of extremists. |  |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 22:29 - Apr 16 with 1164 views | Bent_double |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 22:24 - Apr 16 by redrickstuhaart |
Watch them complain about the "animals" attacking them, when the next generation of martyrs with nothing to lose, and dead families fall into the hands of extremists. |
Indeed, any idiot should be able to see that that's what's coming in the next few years/decades. Except Yahoo of course. |  |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 07:33 - Apr 17 with 903 views | NthQldITFC |
Normalised.
Bastards. |  |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 11:22 - Apr 17 with 742 views | Cafe_Newman |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 07:33 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
Normalised.
Bastards. |
It's okay, the poor people of Lebanon are being freed from Hezbollah. Only Netanyahu with 93% support of Israeli Jews support this moral endeavour. |  |
| FREE PALASTINE FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. FREE LEBANON FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. FREE IRAN FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 12:31 - Apr 17 with 683 views | Whos_blue |
I think this takes some beating. |  |
| "I don't want to be like everyone else. That's why I'm a mod, see?" |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 13:15 - Apr 17 with 636 views | NthQldITFC |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 11:22 - Apr 17 by Cafe_Newman |
It's okay, the poor people of Lebanon are being freed from Hezbollah. Only Netanyahu with 93% support of Israeli Jews support this moral endeavour. |
I typed out and deleted something earlier, about that 93% figure which I saw as well in a BBC report the other day.
It has to be said that the people of Israel, with democracy and free speech available to them, are fundamentally complicit in not bringing this particular evil regime to an end. | |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 13:56 - Apr 17 with 581 views | Blueschev |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 13:15 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
I typed out and deleted something earlier, about that 93% figure which I saw as well in a BBC report the other day.
It has to be said that the people of Israel, with democracy and free speech available to them, are fundamentally complicit in not bringing this particular evil regime to an end. |
To be fair to the population of Israel, living under continual fear of attack leads people to gravitate towards extreme positions in order to feel safe. The fact that the Palestinians have it far, far worse does not mean that Israelis do not also live in fear. |  | | |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 14:28 - Apr 17 with 543 views | NthQldITFC |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 13:56 - Apr 17 by Blueschev |
To be fair to the population of Israel, living under continual fear of attack leads people to gravitate towards extreme positions in order to feel safe. The fact that the Palestinians have it far, far worse does not mean that Israelis do not also live in fear. |
That's true of course, but the people of Israel (and I assume they have free and fair elections there) has given a succession of governments, over a number of decades, a mandate to continue expanding settlements, stealing land and repressing the established inhabitants of the land that they haven't yet stolen.
Given that Resolution 181 happened, the country with the overwhelming power and backing of rich, western nations has needed for a long time to take the lead in a dialogue aimed at peace and compromise and the defusing of an unstable and self-perpetuating conflict. They have not done so. It's no surprise that the repressed and their allies fight back with the limited means at their disposal. | |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 14:45 - Apr 17 with 516 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 14:28 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
That's true of course, but the people of Israel (and I assume they have free and fair elections there) has given a succession of governments, over a number of decades, a mandate to continue expanding settlements, stealing land and repressing the established inhabitants of the land that they haven't yet stolen.
Given that Resolution 181 happened, the country with the overwhelming power and backing of rich, western nations has needed for a long time to take the lead in a dialogue aimed at peace and compromise and the defusing of an unstable and self-perpetuating conflict. They have not done so. It's no surprise that the repressed and their allies fight back with the limited means at their disposal. |
I agree the sentiment, but limited means? Iran have distributed a quarter of a million missiles to their proxies, and Hezbollah have a more powerful arsenal than the armed forces of the country they occupy! They were supposed to be disarmed by UN mandate but refused to do so. Totally condemn Israel’s attacks on Lebanon, but they are hardly plucky resistance fighters. Even the obscenely wealthy Gulf states are struggling to protect their infrastructure or waterways from Iran.
Europe has largely stepped away from Israel now so there’s only the US letting them run riot. I dare say when Trump gets bored Israel will probably continue to attack Iran. He’s going to leave a power vacuum in the region and we’ll probably see even more extremist groups pop up. No lessons learned from Libya, Syria, Iraq etc. | | | |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 15:01 - Apr 17 with 493 views | NthQldITFC |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 14:45 - Apr 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I agree the sentiment, but limited means? Iran have distributed a quarter of a million missiles to their proxies, and Hezbollah have a more powerful arsenal than the armed forces of the country they occupy! They were supposed to be disarmed by UN mandate but refused to do so. Totally condemn Israel’s attacks on Lebanon, but they are hardly plucky resistance fighters. Even the obscenely wealthy Gulf states are struggling to protect their infrastructure or waterways from Iran.
Europe has largely stepped away from Israel now so there’s only the US letting them run riot. I dare say when Trump gets bored Israel will probably continue to attack Iran. He’s going to leave a power vacuum in the region and we’ll probably see even more extremist groups pop up. No lessons learned from Libya, Syria, Iraq etc. |
By comparison they are limited means.
Israel/US have air supremacy, or certainly superiority, over most or all of Iran as far as I am aware, and would undoubtedly so have over any other regional enemy they chose to dominate.
I think the casualty rates are probably a reasonable metric for the relative means:
https://iranwarlive.com/casual
I don't really know the validity or accuracy of the above. It appears to be from open source intelligence.
There may be far better sources of casualty rates available.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/c
The UN might be more up front about where their data comes from, but this seems to be a narrower context (Palestine only) | |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 15:19 - Apr 17 with 463 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 15:01 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
By comparison they are limited means.
Israel/US have air supremacy, or certainly superiority, over most or all of Iran as far as I am aware, and would undoubtedly so have over any other regional enemy they chose to dominate.
I think the casualty rates are probably a reasonable metric for the relative means:
https://iranwarlive.com/casual
I don't really know the validity or accuracy of the above. It appears to be from open source intelligence.
There may be far better sources of casualty rates available.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/c
The UN might be more up front about where their data comes from, but this seems to be a narrower context (Palestine only) |
Any nation that can launch larger missile swarms than Russia is a major military power. They’ve also kept the world’s largest navy at bay. None of their regional neighbours would describe Iran’s means as limited, even with advanced western weapons systems, Iran has inflicted billions of dollars of damage to the gulf states. Hezbollah is the most powerful non-state armed force in the world, and thus the Lebanese, nor the UN cannot disarm or control them. | | | |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 15:57 - Apr 17 with 413 views | NthQldITFC |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 15:19 - Apr 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Any nation that can launch larger missile swarms than Russia is a major military power. They’ve also kept the world’s largest navy at bay. None of their regional neighbours would describe Iran’s means as limited, even with advanced western weapons systems, Iran has inflicted billions of dollars of damage to the gulf states. Hezbollah is the most powerful non-state armed force in the world, and thus the Lebanese, nor the UN cannot disarm or control them. |
As I say, by comparison.
In absolute terms, I take your point.
The casualty figures are a more meaningful metric for me than 'billions of dollars of damage': Firstly human life is infinitely more important than money, secondly I assume the target 'values' in Iran are dwarfed by those in the Gulf States.
I shouldn't imagine that the Iranians or Hezbollah are much more discriminatory than Israel seems to be about hitting civilians, so I doubt that colours the issue.
As to keeping the world's largest navy at bay, if the US was actually committed to 'winning' a war that they fundamentally believe in they could actually put their expensive assets and their personnel on the line and finish things within days, I would think. But of course, there's no appetite within their electorate for anything other than a profitable video game with no impact on their people or their shiny toys. [Post edited 17 Apr 15:58]
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 16:31 - Apr 17 with 366 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 15:57 - Apr 17 by NthQldITFC |
As I say, by comparison.
In absolute terms, I take your point.
The casualty figures are a more meaningful metric for me than 'billions of dollars of damage': Firstly human life is infinitely more important than money, secondly I assume the target 'values' in Iran are dwarfed by those in the Gulf States.
I shouldn't imagine that the Iranians or Hezbollah are much more discriminatory than Israel seems to be about hitting civilians, so I doubt that colours the issue.
As to keeping the world's largest navy at bay, if the US was actually committed to 'winning' a war that they fundamentally believe in they could actually put their expensive assets and their personnel on the line and finish things within days, I would think. But of course, there's no appetite within their electorate for anything other than a profitable video game with no impact on their people or their shiny toys. [Post edited 17 Apr 15:58]
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But the gulf states haven’t even targeted Iran, so that cost (and human casualties) is one sided. That their ‘defence’ of their country involves attacking civilians in neighbouring countries tells you all you need to know about them.
And if we are going down numbers of casualties (which feels somewhat uncomfortable), there was far more Iranians killed by their own government then US strikes. Perhaps they should have invested in the defence of their civilians rather than purely offensive weapons for attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure of their neighbours, and shipping. Not to mention the drones they send to Russia for killing Ukrainian civilians.
Again not condoning any attack on Iran, but they aren’t some benign defenceless regime, they’ve murdered thousands of their own civilians for the audacity of struggling to afford food, all the while spending billions on their proxies to kill Syrians and Yemeni’s. Ultimately the Iranian people were in a horrific place before, but even worse after Trump’s actions - the regime have already started executing protesters. | | | |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 17:34 - Apr 17 with 310 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Take what you think is an unthinkable low, and I'm pretty confident that Yahoo has considered significantly lower. |  |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 18:24 - Apr 17 with 259 views | Whos_blue |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 12:31 - Apr 17 by Whos_blue |
I think this takes some beating. |
My post might have actually made some sense if I'd have attached the item I was referring to.
BBC News - Israeli demolitions destroy south Lebanon towns and villages - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/vid | |
| "I don't want to be like everyone else. That's why I'm a mod, see?" |
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| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 18:51 - Apr 17 with 216 views | NthQldITFC |
| An unthinkable new low by Israel on 16:31 - Apr 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
But the gulf states haven’t even targeted Iran, so that cost (and human casualties) is one sided. That their ‘defence’ of their country involves attacking civilians in neighbouring countries tells you all you need to know about them.
And if we are going down numbers of casualties (which feels somewhat uncomfortable), there was far more Iranians killed by their own government then US strikes. Perhaps they should have invested in the defence of their civilians rather than purely offensive weapons for attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure of their neighbours, and shipping. Not to mention the drones they send to Russia for killing Ukrainian civilians.
Again not condoning any attack on Iran, but they aren’t some benign defenceless regime, they’ve murdered thousands of their own civilians for the audacity of struggling to afford food, all the while spending billions on their proxies to kill Syrians and Yemeni’s. Ultimately the Iranian people were in a horrific place before, but even worse after Trump’s actions - the regime have already started executing protesters. |
I don't think we disagree on much here really. I certainly don't think the Iranian regime is remotely benign or defenceless, they're bastards too, just pointing out that the balance of power makes it far easier for the far stronger side to take the first crucial steps in defusing the situation and compromising on the way to something approaching a viable peace. Israel doesn't seem to have ever done that, as far as I can see, and is a million miles away from it now. | |
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