| Mistaken Identity 03:42 - Jul 12 with 2384 views | godalmingblue |
Surely mistaken identity is if the ref books the wrong player, e.g. booking player A instead of player B?
Not getting the decision wrong in the 1st place?
Not sure of the wording of the new rule, and the end decision looks correct, but seems a bit odd? |  | | |  |
| Mistaken Identity on 07:21 - Jul 12 with 2231 views | bsw72 |
The rule clearly states “if there is an opportunity to maximise the benefit for one of the more favoured FIFA nations through punishing one of the unfashionable sides via VAR, that should be actioned and the officials subsequently rewarded”
EDIT: I just watched the highlights and the dive from Swiss player was shameful. I have little sympathy for him under the new law. Having said that I do feel the the higher ranked sides have gotten the benefit of the doubt a lot in this tournament. [Post edited 12 Jul 7:47]
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| Mistaken Identity on 10:29 - Jul 12 with 1970 views | grow_our_own |
"dive from Swiss player was shameful" - that as may be, but under FIFA rules, can only award a yellow for mistaken identity if a yellow was awarded the wrong way. If ref initially thought there was contact, it wasn't worthy of a yellow. Paredes didn't go to ground, Embolo was heading towards the touch line near the half way line, so it was an innocuous, run-of-the-mill foul and free-kick only. And if so, VAR can't get involved. Again, Argentina have been lucky with poor refereeing at this tournament. [Post edited 12 Jul 10:49]
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| Mistaken Identity on 10:53 - Jul 12 with 1866 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
I'm not sure what you're disputing?
Video assistant referee (VAR) protocol
- Red cards resulting from a clearly incorrect second yellow card reviewable
- Mistaken identity reviewable when a player is shown a yellow/red card but the offence for which the card was shown was committed by another player of either team
- Competitions have the option of reviewing corner kicks that have clearly been incorrectly awarded if the decision can be corrected immediately and without delaying the restart
The ref booked Paredes for a foul that wasn't, and VAR clear demonstrated it was a foul (simulation) by Embolo. The wording 'committed by another player of either team' clearly indicates that the rule allows for highlighting when the foul was the other way around. | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 11:13 - Jul 12 with 1821 views | grow_our_own |
| Mistaken Identity on 10:53 - Jul 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
I'm not sure what you're disputing?
Video assistant referee (VAR) protocol
- Red cards resulting from a clearly incorrect second yellow card reviewable
- Mistaken identity reviewable when a player is shown a yellow/red card but the offence for which the card was shown was committed by another player of either team
- Competitions have the option of reviewing corner kicks that have clearly been incorrectly awarded if the decision can be corrected immediately and without delaying the restart
The ref booked Paredes for a foul that wasn't, and VAR clear demonstrated it was a foul (simulation) by Embolo. The wording 'committed by another player of either team' clearly indicates that the rule allows for highlighting when the foul was the other way around. |
"ref booked Paredes for a foul" - why? Even if he thought there was contact, that's not a yellow. [Post edited 12 Jul 11:20]
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| Mistaken Identity on 11:42 - Jul 12 with 1745 views | barcelonablue2 |
| Mistaken Identity on 11:13 - Jul 12 by grow_our_own |
"ref booked Paredes for a foul" - why? Even if he thought there was contact, that's not a yellow. [Post edited 12 Jul 11:20]
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Probably because he kicked Embolo from behind at least 4 times in the first half also. Ironic that the first time the referee finally bothered to book him for it is then overturned by VAR for a red towards Embolo instead. Makes the referee look a right tit and frankly is the real problem FIFA has created here.
These are world class referees and yet now because of Trump and Infantino they have been embroiled into a web of conspiracy and corruption. As someone else has posted elsewhere Argentina has received 1 yellow for every 22 fouls. Honestly think they have commited more fouls that that, Martinez spent half the game holding onto the wingers and strikers arm with both hands and didn't get booked or called out for it once. No longer looks like dark Arts but instead of FIFA doing them a favour. FIFA are just bringing a legacy moment for these players and Messi into a black hole with an asterisk on the star. For many people's minds of but did they win it fairly | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 11:42 - Jul 12 with 1743 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Mistaken Identity on 11:13 - Jul 12 by grow_our_own |
"ref booked Paredes for a foul" - why? Even if he thought there was contact, that's not a yellow. [Post edited 12 Jul 11:20]
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That's irrelevant in the context of this incident. Paredes had a foul awarded against him and was booked for it (regardless of the correctness of that action), and therefore under the new protocols VAR can intervene to highlight that the wrong player was booked.
The awarding of the yellow card is the trigger for the protocol.
It's the only possible outcome in a situation like this, once VAR is involved, as VAR has no power to intervene for first yellow cards, so couldn't rule that Paredes didn't deserve a yellow on the basis that there was no foul. They can however (and did) look at potential mistaken identity (which could not have happened if a yellow hadn't been given)
IFAB were very clear about this before the WC started.
"mistaken identity, when the referee penalises the wrong team for an offence that results in a red or yellow card being shown to the wrong player;"
In the context of this incident, where a yellow card was awarded, it is entirely the correct process. | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 17:24 - Jul 12 with 1229 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Mistaken Identity on 11:42 - Jul 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
That's irrelevant in the context of this incident. Paredes had a foul awarded against him and was booked for it (regardless of the correctness of that action), and therefore under the new protocols VAR can intervene to highlight that the wrong player was booked.
The awarding of the yellow card is the trigger for the protocol.
It's the only possible outcome in a situation like this, once VAR is involved, as VAR has no power to intervene for first yellow cards, so couldn't rule that Paredes didn't deserve a yellow on the basis that there was no foul. They can however (and did) look at potential mistaken identity (which could not have happened if a yellow hadn't been given)
IFAB were very clear about this before the WC started.
"mistaken identity, when the referee penalises the wrong team for an offence that results in a red or yellow card being shown to the wrong player;"
In the context of this incident, where a yellow card was awarded, it is entirely the correct process. |
It was wrong. Like the us one in their first game. It's using mistaken identity to change a decision. Make it up as they go along. | |
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| Mistaken Identity on 17:36 - Jul 12 with 1197 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Mistaken Identity on 11:42 - Jul 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
That's irrelevant in the context of this incident. Paredes had a foul awarded against him and was booked for it (regardless of the correctness of that action), and therefore under the new protocols VAR can intervene to highlight that the wrong player was booked.
The awarding of the yellow card is the trigger for the protocol.
It's the only possible outcome in a situation like this, once VAR is involved, as VAR has no power to intervene for first yellow cards, so couldn't rule that Paredes didn't deserve a yellow on the basis that there was no foul. They can however (and did) look at potential mistaken identity (which could not have happened if a yellow hadn't been given)
IFAB were very clear about this before the WC started.
"mistaken identity, when the referee penalises the wrong team for an offence that results in a red or yellow card being shown to the wrong player;"
In the context of this incident, where a yellow card was awarded, it is entirely the correct process. |
Surely it’s the actual crux of the incident? Had the ref not booked Paredes and just awarded the free kick against him, they would have played on and VAR would not have got involved and Embolo stays on the pitch.
It was the right decision ultimately, but this sort of situation could easily get out of hand when VAR can only intervene in certain situations if certain things happen. The end result will be inconsistency. I’m not a big fan of how much creep there is for VAR involvement. The less the better imo, otherwise where will VAR’s remit stop? |  |
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| Mistaken Identity on 17:42 - Jul 12 with 1185 views | vapour_trail |
| Mistaken Identity on 07:21 - Jul 12 by bsw72 |
The rule clearly states “if there is an opportunity to maximise the benefit for one of the more favoured FIFA nations through punishing one of the unfashionable sides via VAR, that should be actioned and the officials subsequently rewarded”
EDIT: I just watched the highlights and the dive from Swiss player was shameful. I have little sympathy for him under the new law. Having said that I do feel the the higher ranked sides have gotten the benefit of the doubt a lot in this tournament. [Post edited 12 Jul 7:47]
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I do not own a tin foil hat.
But I do think Argentina’s fortune in this tournament has been other worldly.
I never go in for this stuff. I don’t believe the refs are bent. But after Ronaldo and Balogun I just don’t trust it any more. |  |
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| Mistaken Identity on 21:38 - Jul 12 with 1053 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Mistaken Identity on 17:36 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Surely it’s the actual crux of the incident? Had the ref not booked Paredes and just awarded the free kick against him, they would have played on and VAR would not have got involved and Embolo stays on the pitch.
It was the right decision ultimately, but this sort of situation could easily get out of hand when VAR can only intervene in certain situations if certain things happen. The end result will be inconsistency. I’m not a big fan of how much creep there is for VAR involvement. The less the better imo, otherwise where will VAR’s remit stop? |
That’s a different discussion though. The OP said they thought the new rule was only intended for when the wrong player was booked. It is, and that’s exactly how it was used here.
Whether or not the Paredes ‘non-foul’ warranted a booking is open to debate (was probably for persistent fouling), but it was given - a then what followed was correct.
Look at it differently - if the ref had seen the criminal simulation, Embolo would have been booked and walked. | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 21:44 - Jul 12 with 1034 views | Trequartista |
| Mistaken Identity on 10:53 - Jul 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
I'm not sure what you're disputing?
Video assistant referee (VAR) protocol
- Red cards resulting from a clearly incorrect second yellow card reviewable
- Mistaken identity reviewable when a player is shown a yellow/red card but the offence for which the card was shown was committed by another player of either team
- Competitions have the option of reviewing corner kicks that have clearly been incorrectly awarded if the decision can be corrected immediately and without delaying the restart
The ref booked Paredes for a foul that wasn't, and VAR clear demonstrated it was a foul (simulation) by Embolo. The wording 'committed by another player of either team' clearly indicates that the rule allows for highlighting when the foul was the other way around. |
"the offence for which the card was shown was committed by another player of either team"
The offence Paredes committed for which the card was shown was not the same offence Embolo was then booked for. (One was deemed to be a trip, the other simulation)
They need to change the name of it because Mistaken Identity implies he got the person wrong, when in this case, he knew exactly who the players were it was the decision that was wrong. |  |
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| Mistaken Identity on 22:07 - Jul 12 with 952 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Mistaken Identity on 21:44 - Jul 12 by Trequartista |
"the offence for which the card was shown was committed by another player of either team"
The offence Paredes committed for which the card was shown was not the same offence Embolo was then booked for. (One was deemed to be a trip, the other simulation)
They need to change the name of it because Mistaken Identity implies he got the person wrong, when in this case, he knew exactly who the players were it was the decision that was wrong. |
That’s an interesting point, which I didn’t pick up on.
That first quote I gave is what the Premier League briefed on for the PL next season. I’ve not been able to find any more detail for the World Cup, other than the statement from IFAB for the WC.
"mistaken identity, when the referee penalises the wrong team for an offence that results in a red or yellow card being shown to the wrong player;"
That’s a bit different, and would allow what happened last night. | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 22:15 - Jul 12 with 931 views | Trequartista |
| Mistaken Identity on 22:07 - Jul 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
That’s an interesting point, which I didn’t pick up on.
That first quote I gave is what the Premier League briefed on for the PL next season. I’ve not been able to find any more detail for the World Cup, other than the statement from IFAB for the WC.
"mistaken identity, when the referee penalises the wrong team for an offence that results in a red or yellow card being shown to the wrong player;"
That’s a bit different, and would allow what happened last night. |
I just wonder if "Mistaken Identity" is something lost in translation. In English football historically it has specifically meant "the wrong person" e.g. number 5 gets a yellow card for a foul made by number 6. Have FIFA used a more generic wider definition of the term to almost mean "anything that is wrong".
For example you could stretch "Mistaken Identity" to the simple overrule of a throw-in to the opposition by saying it came off the leg of a player in team A instead of team B, so the identity of whose leg it came off was mistaken. | |
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| Mistaken Identity on 22:56 - Jul 12 with 887 views | joepublic |
Appreciate iv jumped in late on this thread but the bit that frustrates or confuses me is why the ref then felt obliged to give a second yellow to the Swiss lad.
No one likes diving but i genuinely cant think of another yellow card at this WC for simulation.
It just felt over the top for a second yellow when Argentina barely ever get a first yellow ever. |  |
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| Mistaken Identity on 23:19 - Jul 12 with 868 views | Trequartista |
| Mistaken Identity on 22:56 - Jul 12 by joepublic |
Appreciate iv jumped in late on this thread but the bit that frustrates or confuses me is why the ref then felt obliged to give a second yellow to the Swiss lad.
No one likes diving but i genuinely cant think of another yellow card at this WC for simulation.
It just felt over the top for a second yellow when Argentina barely ever get a first yellow ever. |
It seems to me they had to book Embolo to justify a "Mistaken Identity" VAR intervention. If they don't transfer the card from one player to another then it's not "Mistaken Identity", it's merely a mistake. | |
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| Mistaken Identity on 07:53 - Jul 13 with 671 views | Blue_In_Boston |
He did book the wrong player, so technically it was mistaken identity! Wrong player, wrong team even, but when you review the incident the booking for blatant cheating is fully deserved. | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 07:58 - Jul 13 with 658 views | vapour_trail |
| Mistaken Identity on 07:53 - Jul 13 by Blue_In_Boston |
He did book the wrong player, so technically it was mistaken identity! Wrong player, wrong team even, but when you review the incident the booking for blatant cheating is fully deserved. |
It’s not mistaken identity. It’s just a mistake.
If he doesn’t erroneously book for the foul, the dive doesn’t get the yellow and red. But because the ref has made the initial error, the dive gets punished.
That’s fine in isolation, but there’s absolutely no consistency when other dives aren’t being reviewed and punished. | |
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| Mistaken Identity on 08:54 - Jul 13 with 605 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Mistaken Identity on 07:58 - Jul 13 by vapour_trail |
It’s not mistaken identity. It’s just a mistake.
If he doesn’t erroneously book for the foul, the dive doesn’t get the yellow and red. But because the ref has made the initial error, the dive gets punished.
That’s fine in isolation, but there’s absolutely no consistency when other dives aren’t being reviewed and punished. |
By the definition put out by IFAB before the WC, it is what they intend for mistaken identity. It’s pretty unequivocally when you read that.
I do totally agree with your point about simulation though. It only seems to generally get punished in the penalty area, so normally Embolo would not have received a yellow in those circumstances. It’s only because VAR intervened.
There does appear to be a difference between how the PL intend it to be used compared to the WC, which will add to the confusion and potentially more inconsistency. | | | |
| Mistaken Identity on 13:40 - Jul 13 with 470 views | naa |
| Mistaken Identity on 07:58 - Jul 13 by vapour_trail |
It’s not mistaken identity. It’s just a mistake.
If he doesn’t erroneously book for the foul, the dive doesn’t get the yellow and red. But because the ref has made the initial error, the dive gets punished.
That’s fine in isolation, but there’s absolutely no consistency when other dives aren’t being reviewed and punished. |
Don't disagree, but that dive was so bad he deserved a yellow for making such a poor effort of cheating quite frankly. | | | |
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