| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal 21:16 - Jul 20 with 1454 views | WeWereZombies |
And Brexit gives Britain a better chance of retaining our liberal democracy, an interesting listen and I do take in many of his points. But I think his portrayal of 'diehard remainers' is just as distorted as some parodies of Brextremists:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b9zvtf |  |
| |  |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 07:48 - Jul 21 with 1361 views | GlasgowBlue |
I’ll give it a listen. The following is quite concerning:
Sweden
National populists now no.1 in polls
Germany
AfD now number 2 in polls
Italy
60% now for populists/hard right
Austria
58% for national populist coalition
Hungary
69% for Orban + Jobbik |  |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 09:29 - Jul 21 with 1331 views | Pinewoodblue |
Last election we almost squeezed out the Liberal centre of British politics. |  |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 09:35 - Jul 21 with 1314 views | No9 |
Does it take into account how far the UK will move to the right when the brexiteers have finally got their way? |  | | |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 09:51 - Jul 21 with 1307 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 09:35 - Jul 21 by No9 |
Does it take into account how far the UK will move to the right when the brexiteers have finally got their way? |
Why do you always frame Brexit as a right wing endeavour? | |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 10:34 - Jul 21 with 1267 views | WeWereZombies |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 09:51 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Why do you always frame Brexit as a right wing endeavour? |
As an avid Desert Island Discs listener it has been interesting to hear advocates like Tim Weatherspoon and John Gray put their point across (and Weatherspoon selecting Bob Marley, Loudoun Wainwright III was pleasing too) but there is an unpleasant public face - Tommy Robinson, Rees-Mogg, The Daily Mail's screaming headlines, Boris Johnson's shenanigans - that is right wing and very much in the mould of Franco's Fifth Columnists. Why are the moderate and liberal, if anything, even weaker than Remainers at getting their points across? | |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 10:49 - Jul 21 with 1250 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 10:34 - Jul 21 by WeWereZombies |
As an avid Desert Island Discs listener it has been interesting to hear advocates like Tim Weatherspoon and John Gray put their point across (and Weatherspoon selecting Bob Marley, Loudoun Wainwright III was pleasing too) but there is an unpleasant public face - Tommy Robinson, Rees-Mogg, The Daily Mail's screaming headlines, Boris Johnson's shenanigans - that is right wing and very much in the mould of Franco's Fifth Columnists. Why are the moderate and liberal, if anything, even weaker than Remainers at getting their points across? |
I really don’t recall Tommy Robinson campaigning or speaking for Brexit during the referendum. But fur your Tommy Robinson I’ll raise you Anjem Choudray who came our publicly for remain.
There were left wing voices for Brexit. Denis Skinner, Arthur Scargill, Kate Hoey, and of course Gisela Stuart was chair of Vote Leave. What was missing was a firebrand from the left like Tony Benn at his peak. [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 10:50]
| |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:12 - Jul 21 with 1212 views | tractordownsouth |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 10:49 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
I really don’t recall Tommy Robinson campaigning or speaking for Brexit during the referendum. But fur your Tommy Robinson I’ll raise you Anjem Choudray who came our publicly for remain.
There were left wing voices for Brexit. Denis Skinner, Arthur Scargill, Kate Hoey, and of course Gisela Stuart was chair of Vote Leave. What was missing was a firebrand from the left like Tony Benn at his peak. [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 10:50]
|
Thing is though, the left wingers campaigning for Brexit were arguably doing so from a right wing perspective - Gisela Stuart and George Galloway were using the ' we send X amount of money to the Eu every week, let's spend it at home' rhetoric, despite the fact that a lot of this money goes to regional development funding, in order to reduce inequality. That is definitely not left wing, and the idea that free trade is right wing is also nonsense imo. |  |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:14 - Jul 21 with 1209 views | WeWereZombies |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 10:49 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
I really don’t recall Tommy Robinson campaigning or speaking for Brexit during the referendum. But fur your Tommy Robinson I’ll raise you Anjem Choudray who came our publicly for remain.
There were left wing voices for Brexit. Denis Skinner, Arthur Scargill, Kate Hoey, and of course Gisela Stuart was chair of Vote Leave. What was missing was a firebrand from the left like Tony Benn at his peak. [Post edited 21 Jul 2018 10:50]
|
Playing matched pairs to allow for absences in the voting chamber doesn't really help though, does it? Where are the strong arguments that put the case for a post Brexit Britain being a resurgent liberal democracy rather than another one of the USA's banana republics (that has to import bananas and isn't even allowed to get them from the Windward Islands)? | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:16 - Jul 21 with 1204 views | Swansea_Blue |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 09:51 - Jul 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Why do you always frame Brexit as a right wing endeavour? |
Because in the main it’s driven by right wing idiology? Just a hunch though. Obviously that’s a broad generalisation, but it’s been driven historically by elements in the right of the Tories and further right by Kippers and even more unsavoury nationalists. And the public have been primed by the right wing press.
Corbyn is an anomaly - just to slip that in before he’s inevitably brought up. |  |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:23 - Jul 21 with 1191 views | Herbivore |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:16 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Because in the main it’s driven by right wing idiology? Just a hunch though. Obviously that’s a broad generalisation, but it’s been driven historically by elements in the right of the Tories and further right by Kippers and even more unsavoury nationalists. And the public have been primed by the right wing press.
Corbyn is an anomaly - just to slip that in before he’s inevitably brought up. |
I love how a right wing leave voter is questioning whether Brexit is indeed a right wing endeavour. It's public face was UKIP and the more right leaning wing of the Tories, it's not really up for debate. That some voices on the left backed it also is irrelevant, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. |  |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:33 - Jul 21 with 1174 views | Swansea_Blue |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:23 - Jul 21 by Herbivore |
I love how a right wing leave voter is questioning whether Brexit is indeed a right wing endeavour. It's public face was UKIP and the more right leaning wing of the Tories, it's not really up for debate. That some voices on the left backed it also is irrelevant, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. |
Quite. The “endeavor”, the political lobbying, back room deals, party splits, the promotion through the right wing press - it’s all from that side. I don’t see how that can even be questioned. Doesn’t mean Brexit isn’t for all though (for good or bad). But it’s clearly been orchestrated from the right. | |
| |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 13:43 - Jul 21 with 1126 views | No9 |
| John Gray on this evening's Point of View - the EU is becoming less liberal on 11:16 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Because in the main it’s driven by right wing idiology? Just a hunch though. Obviously that’s a broad generalisation, but it’s been driven historically by elements in the right of the Tories and further right by Kippers and even more unsavoury nationalists. And the public have been primed by the right wing press.
Corbyn is an anomaly - just to slip that in before he’s inevitably brought up. |
The thing is, the right across Europe wants to break up anything they see as less than right wing. Even centrists get insulted.
The rise of the right should not be overlooked. The British Conservative & Unionist party moved several steps to the righ when Mr Cameron became leader, it continues to move to the right now aligning with far a right Swedish group & other members of the Conservative party have strong links with the alt right in America.
No one is aking the question "where is this taking us" ? | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
