| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM 08:37 - Jul 14 with 1080 views | WeWereZombies |
Somewhere in central Africa? A small Caribbean island? Err, no, Australia:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53386554
On a thread a few days ago I made an argument for constitutional monarchy by comparing our Queen's role as Head of State with the elected POTUS Trump (and BlueBadger accused me of lighting a flamethrower near a straw man! Trump is getting to be atypical of presidents around the World, not an outlier in my opinion).
However, this revelation does temper my argument. The need for a reduction in the clutter around the Monarchy is vital for an improvement in our democracy. |  |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 08:54 - Jul 14 with 1033 views | bluelagos |
The arugument against a monarchy is a simple one. Do you believe in a meritocracy? That those with the most talent, hardest working should get on in life as opposed to those born into privilege?
If you do, then there is no place for a monarch. Not just because the top job should be based on merit, but because of the message is sends about our society.
You don't change society for the better by retaining unmeritocratic structures, one of which is the monarchy. |  |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:03 - Jul 14 with 1012 views | footers |
Well, well, well... the establishment trying to undermine progressive political parties and movements through underhanded tactics? I for one am shocked. |  |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:03 - Jul 14 with 1015 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 08:54 - Jul 14 by bluelagos |
The arugument against a monarchy is a simple one. Do you believe in a meritocracy? That those with the most talent, hardest working should get on in life as opposed to those born into privilege?
If you do, then there is no place for a monarch. Not just because the top job should be based on merit, but because of the message is sends about our society.
You don't change society for the better by retaining unmeritocratic structures, one of which is the monarchy. |
It really isn't that simple. The need for a sovereign was established after the collapse of the revolutionary parliament that arose from the English Civil War. And then from the replacement of a King who sought to reimpose 'Divine Right'. To have a sovereign who is apart from the populace should give an impartial viewpoint, a disinterested spectator who can make decisions without being compromised by self interest.
But it just needs one person, in a partly privileged and partly disadvantaged position, and it is all the other paraphernalia that I object to. Having a head of state selected by 'meritocracy' (who decides what has merit?) is more likely to lead to a scrabble for power and dog eat dog social norms. | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:11 - Jul 14 with 1001 views | Keno |
Oh I thought you meant in a highly developed culturally aware country
then you said Australia
so basically they changed the prison governor? |  |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:14 - Jul 14 with 994 views | bluelagos |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:03 - Jul 14 by WeWereZombies |
It really isn't that simple. The need for a sovereign was established after the collapse of the revolutionary parliament that arose from the English Civil War. And then from the replacement of a King who sought to reimpose 'Divine Right'. To have a sovereign who is apart from the populace should give an impartial viewpoint, a disinterested spectator who can make decisions without being compromised by self interest.
But it just needs one person, in a partly privileged and partly disadvantaged position, and it is all the other paraphernalia that I object to. Having a head of state selected by 'meritocracy' (who decides what has merit?) is more likely to lead to a scrabble for power and dog eat dog social norms. |
"The need for a sovereign...."
There are fully functioning republics all over the world last time I checked. There is no need, it is a matter of choice. :-) | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:49 - Jul 14 with 935 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:14 - Jul 14 by bluelagos |
"The need for a sovereign...."
There are fully functioning republics all over the world last time I checked. There is no need, it is a matter of choice. :-) |
Republics have a head of state, i.e. a sovereign. Sovereign power does not have to rest with a monarch. | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:53 - Jul 14 with 926 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:11 - Jul 14 by Keno |
Oh I thought you meant in a highly developed culturally aware country
then you said Australia
so basically they changed the prison governor? |
Now, now.I think Australia punches well above it's weight culturally. Think of Clive James, Germaine Greer, Robert Hughes, Barry Humphries and so on. OK, they all left Australia to live in England... | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:53 - Jul 14 with 926 views | bluelagos |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:49 - Jul 14 by WeWereZombies |
Republics have a head of state, i.e. a sovereign. Sovereign power does not have to rest with a monarch. |
So the only debate is who is the sovereign?
An elected person or a person "born to rule"? I'll take the former every day thanks. | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:01 - Jul 14 with 911 views | Keno |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:53 - Jul 14 by WeWereZombies |
Now, now.I think Australia punches well above it's weight culturally. Think of Clive James, Germaine Greer, Robert Hughes, Barry Humphries and so on. OK, they all left Australia to live in England... |
I was thinking more along the lines of their fine upstanding cultural ambassador Sir Les Patterson | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:03 - Jul 14 with 908 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 09:53 - Jul 14 by bluelagos |
So the only debate is who is the sovereign?
An elected person or a person "born to rule"? I'll take the former every day thanks. |
You have failed to consider the reasons, borne out of a gruelling and bloody episode from history, for having one person apart from the voting public to monitor the correct running of a Parliament. Look how easily Trump is playing fast and loose with the United States constitution, despite all its bells and whistles. And that is before you consider Bolsonaro, Orban, Duda, Putin, Xi and Duterte. It seems that more than half the World's population and land mass is suffering autocrats who manage to play electoral systems for their own gain. | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:06 - Jul 14 with 902 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:01 - Jul 14 by Keno |
I was thinking more along the lines of their fine upstanding cultural ambassador Sir Les Patterson |
You think Barry Humphries and Les Patterson are different people?
Which reminds me, I should point out that the Robert Hughes I mentioned is the sadly missed great art critic and not the actor who played the reporter in ABBA: The Movie and who is now jailed (yes, back to that trope) for child sex offences. | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:09 - Jul 14 with 892 views | Keno |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:06 - Jul 14 by WeWereZombies |
You think Barry Humphries and Les Patterson are different people?
Which reminds me, I should point out that the Robert Hughes I mentioned is the sadly missed great art critic and not the actor who played the reporter in ABBA: The Movie and who is now jailed (yes, back to that trope) for child sex offences. |
aren't they????
you'll be telling me next Dame Edna isn't real | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:14 - Jul 14 with 885 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:09 - Jul 14 by Keno |
aren't they????
you'll be telling me next Dame Edna isn't real |
Edna is every bit as real as Norm, Kenny, Bruce, Valmai and Lois. | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:17 - Jul 14 with 880 views | Keno |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:14 - Jul 14 by WeWereZombies |
Edna is every bit as real as Norm, Kenny, Bruce, Valmai and Lois. |
Phew!!
And Skippy? | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:18 - Jul 14 with 878 views | WeWereZombies |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:17 - Jul 14 by Keno |
Phew!!
And Skippy? |
Yes, Edna either married or gave birth to him too... | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:38 - Jul 14 with 847 views | Keno |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:18 - Jul 14 by WeWereZombies |
Yes, Edna either married or gave birth to him too... |
if she was from Norfolk it could be both | |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:41 - Jul 14 with 840 views | hampstead_blue |
It would be a great start for the Monarchy to be taught in school.
I for one don't have the knowledge of the mechanics making things turn.
I'd love to study this and an early education would have helped.
After my recent reading of 1984 I am quite happy with a bunch of real faces in leadership in our country (opens the door for a slagging for not accepting the power is the faceless privileged blah blah blha) |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:47 - Jul 14 with 832 views | Libero |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:41 - Jul 14 by hampstead_blue |
It would be a great start for the Monarchy to be taught in school.
I for one don't have the knowledge of the mechanics making things turn.
I'd love to study this and an early education would have helped.
After my recent reading of 1984 I am quite happy with a bunch of real faces in leadership in our country (opens the door for a slagging for not accepting the power is the faceless privileged blah blah blha) |
I confirm that elements of the Monarchy, it's inner workings and it's history are taught across various different subjects in High School.
Oh, you've just discovered 1984? Is that why you charmingly told me I should "be sent down Winston Smith's chute" :') [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 10:48]
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 11:34 - Jul 14 with 792 views | hampstead_blue |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 10:47 - Jul 14 by Libero |
I confirm that elements of the Monarchy, it's inner workings and it's history are taught across various different subjects in High School.
Oh, you've just discovered 1984? Is that why you charmingly told me I should "be sent down Winston Smith's chute" :') [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 10:48]
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I must have missed those lessons. I was at High School in the mid 80's.
May have been post options in History, which I didn't take.
Still, I'd like my youngest to have a deeper understanding of this country so the Monarchy would be a good topic to delve into. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 11:43 - Jul 14 with 776 views | Libero |
| Forty five years ago an unelected UK official was complicit in removing a PM on 11:34 - Jul 14 by hampstead_blue |
I must have missed those lessons. I was at High School in the mid 80's.
May have been post options in History, which I didn't take.
Still, I'd like my youngest to have a deeper understanding of this country so the Monarchy would be a good topic to delve into. |
I imagine it's changed a lot from your day.
I supported 11-18 year old students studying various facets of the royal family covered by History, PSHE, General Studies, Religious Studies, Media Studies, Sociology and Humanities.
Often when I see people say "X SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS" - it already is being. | | | |
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