| Green are ceasing to trade :( 17:04 - Sep 22 with 1586 views | Ryorry |
Just had an email from my 100% renewables leccy provider, Green, saying they're going under :(
So much for Govt. support for sustainable energy. And I bet they don't switch me to another Economy 10 tariff (which I've been on for decades).
Edit: Apols, hadn't seen Joe's thread when I wrote this, will switch my comments to that one.
[Post edited 22 Sep 2021 17:36]
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 19:52 - Sep 22 with 1446 views | Guthrum |
Umm, how has a 100% renewables electricity supplier been taken down by a hike in gas prices? Or were they mixed but offering special green deals (presumaby underwritten by involvement in the usual hydrocarbons)? |  |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:25 - Sep 22 with 1405 views | JakeITFC |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 19:52 - Sep 22 by Guthrum |
Umm, how has a 100% renewables electricity supplier been taken down by a hike in gas prices? Or were they mixed but offering special green deals (presumaby underwritten by involvement in the usual hydrocarbons)? |
The supplier you are with doesn't have any bearing on the actual electrons that flow through your plugs into your home, and so despite being with a 100% renewable provider, your best estimate of where the power is sourced is buying looking at the national fuel mix at any one time (which isn't 100% renewable).
The way that renewables tariffs work is that for every MW of renewable energy generated, an equivalent certificate to say that specific MW came from a green source. By buying a renewable tariff, you are in effect paying for enough certificates to cover your usage (but getting power from the same grid as everyone else).
This means that Green are subject to the same market conditions as everybody else - rising prices in the wholesale market, credit requirements etc. despite in theory being anti-gas etc. Had Green been backed by a generator with lots of renewable assets themselves, this would be less of an issue (and is why the big 6 and similarly large companies are able to weather this storm). |  | | |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:38 - Sep 22 with 1356 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:25 - Sep 22 by JakeITFC |
The supplier you are with doesn't have any bearing on the actual electrons that flow through your plugs into your home, and so despite being with a 100% renewable provider, your best estimate of where the power is sourced is buying looking at the national fuel mix at any one time (which isn't 100% renewable).
The way that renewables tariffs work is that for every MW of renewable energy generated, an equivalent certificate to say that specific MW came from a green source. By buying a renewable tariff, you are in effect paying for enough certificates to cover your usage (but getting power from the same grid as everyone else).
This means that Green are subject to the same market conditions as everybody else - rising prices in the wholesale market, credit requirements etc. despite in theory being anti-gas etc. Had Green been backed by a generator with lots of renewable assets themselves, this would be less of an issue (and is why the big 6 and similarly large companies are able to weather this storm). |
Have a friend who has seen his energy supplier go under four times. Each time he gets transferred to one of the big six then switches to another 'green' supplier. because he "wants to save the planet" wouldn't be surprised if has been caught again.
Contributing factor seems to be that the split between generation & end usage means that two profits are being made. |  |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:50 - Sep 22 with 1315 views | Guthrum |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:25 - Sep 22 by JakeITFC |
The supplier you are with doesn't have any bearing on the actual electrons that flow through your plugs into your home, and so despite being with a 100% renewable provider, your best estimate of where the power is sourced is buying looking at the national fuel mix at any one time (which isn't 100% renewable).
The way that renewables tariffs work is that for every MW of renewable energy generated, an equivalent certificate to say that specific MW came from a green source. By buying a renewable tariff, you are in effect paying for enough certificates to cover your usage (but getting power from the same grid as everyone else).
This means that Green are subject to the same market conditions as everybody else - rising prices in the wholesale market, credit requirements etc. despite in theory being anti-gas etc. Had Green been backed by a generator with lots of renewable assets themselves, this would be less of an issue (and is why the big 6 and similarly large companies are able to weather this storm). |
Ah, so it's effectively offsetting. Thanks. | |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 21:17 - Sep 22 with 1282 views | JakeITFC |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:38 - Sep 22 by Pinewoodblue |
Have a friend who has seen his energy supplier go under four times. Each time he gets transferred to one of the big six then switches to another 'green' supplier. because he "wants to save the planet" wouldn't be surprised if has been caught again.
Contributing factor seems to be that the split between generation & end usage means that two profits are being made. |
In essence, yes - there is a large secondary market for these renewable certificates (although it may be smaller if millions of customers worth of supply now longer requires them). | | | |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 23:05 - Sep 22 with 1121 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 21:17 - Sep 22 by JakeITFC |
In essence, yes - there is a large secondary market for these renewable certificates (although it may be smaller if millions of customers worth of supply now longer requires them). |
Are you saying you can speculate on renewable certificates? | |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:00 - Sep 23 with 988 views | JakeITFC |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 23:05 - Sep 22 by Pinewoodblue |
Are you saying you can speculate on renewable certificates? |
In theory, yes - they have an intrinsic value (for example a new entrant to the supply market who is promising 100% renewable energy HAS to match off their demand with the equivalent certificates and so there is an associated value to that) and the matching has to be done within the year that you are selling for so there is sometimes a squeeze on price.
The electricity market is very complicated for something that sounds quite routine, and the recent-ish introduction of renewables and carbon certification in both the UK and Europe complicates it further. | | | |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:31 - Sep 23 with 952 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:00 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
In theory, yes - they have an intrinsic value (for example a new entrant to the supply market who is promising 100% renewable energy HAS to match off their demand with the equivalent certificates and so there is an associated value to that) and the matching has to be done within the year that you are selling for so there is sometimes a squeeze on price.
The electricity market is very complicated for something that sounds quite routine, and the recent-ish introduction of renewables and carbon certification in both the UK and Europe complicates it further. |
Well we have to keep the illusion of an economy (financialising everything) going somehow I suppose. |  |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:45 - Sep 23 with 929 views | Dubtractor |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:31 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Well we have to keep the illusion of an economy (financialising everything) going somehow I suppose. |
I've never been convinced by green tariffs/providers for all the reasons outlined in this thread.
Living in Suffolk my electricity will prob be from Sizewell, regardless of provider, and I strongly believe that a move to sustainable energy shouldn't be about market demand from consumers, but should be about clear and decisive policy from governments. |  |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:42 - Sep 23 with 865 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 20:25 - Sep 22 by JakeITFC |
The supplier you are with doesn't have any bearing on the actual electrons that flow through your plugs into your home, and so despite being with a 100% renewable provider, your best estimate of where the power is sourced is buying looking at the national fuel mix at any one time (which isn't 100% renewable).
The way that renewables tariffs work is that for every MW of renewable energy generated, an equivalent certificate to say that specific MW came from a green source. By buying a renewable tariff, you are in effect paying for enough certificates to cover your usage (but getting power from the same grid as everyone else).
This means that Green are subject to the same market conditions as everybody else - rising prices in the wholesale market, credit requirements etc. despite in theory being anti-gas etc. Had Green been backed by a generator with lots of renewable assets themselves, this would be less of an issue (and is why the big 6 and similarly large companies are able to weather this storm). |
Good explanation. That's exactly what mine do (Ovo). It's all labelled as 100% renewable, but in fairness they do have an explainer in the small print. |  |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:46 - Sep 23 with 860 views | BloomBlue |
Well that's one of the problems at the moment, wind power has been an issue recently and hasn't been able to fulfil the energy requirements while the nuclear power station was having some maintenance work done.
If they had allowed fracking in the UK we won't be in this situation of relying upon other countries for gas supplies |  | | |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:56 - Sep 23 with 847 views | Ryorry |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:46 - Sep 23 by BloomBlue |
Well that's one of the problems at the moment, wind power has been an issue recently and hasn't been able to fulfil the energy requirements while the nuclear power station was having some maintenance work done.
If they had allowed fracking in the UK we won't be in this situation of relying upon other countries for gas supplies |
Fracking was never viable in the UK (we don't have the USA's geology, land mass or demographics) even if you disregard the horrendous environmental consequences. | |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:58 - Sep 23 with 842 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:00 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
In theory, yes - they have an intrinsic value (for example a new entrant to the supply market who is promising 100% renewable energy HAS to match off their demand with the equivalent certificates and so there is an associated value to that) and the matching has to be done within the year that you are selling for so there is sometimes a squeeze on price.
The electricity market is very complicated for something that sounds quite routine, and the recent-ish introduction of renewables and carbon certification in both the UK and Europe complicates it further. |
So potentially another layer looking for a profit. | |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:58 - Sep 23 with 841 views | Ryorry |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 08:00 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
In theory, yes - they have an intrinsic value (for example a new entrant to the supply market who is promising 100% renewable energy HAS to match off their demand with the equivalent certificates and so there is an associated value to that) and the matching has to be done within the year that you are selling for so there is sometimes a squeeze on price.
The electricity market is very complicated for something that sounds quite routine, and the recent-ish introduction of renewables and carbon certification in both the UK and Europe complicates it further. |
Sounds like you work in the sector? (apols if you've already said somewhere but I missed it). | |
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| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 12:51 - Sep 23 with 791 views | JakeITFC |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 10:58 - Sep 23 by Ryorry |
Sounds like you work in the sector? (apols if you've already said somewhere but I missed it). |
Yup, 10+ years for a major UK energy company, mostly on the trading side of things. | | | |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 13:22 - Sep 23 with 756 views | Ryorry |
| Green are ceasing to trade :( on 12:51 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
Yup, 10+ years for a major UK energy company, mostly on the trading side of things. |
Ah, cheers 👠| |
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