| For those interested in politics north of the border 08:21 - May 27 with 1217 views | GlasgowBlue |
A very good thread by Labour’s Jim Murphy on the SNP’s culture of corruption, secrecy and cover ups. Well worth a read.
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 10:59 - May 27 with 1119 views | Darth_Koont |
There’s been over a decade of politicised attacks from the largely pro-establishment media and stooges like Jim Murphy.
Labour north of the border, but certainly south of the border, should concentrate on having a point rather than going after the smeary stuff. Not least because the current Labour Party are as bad as any organisation in terms of corruption, secrecy and coverups ... the Forde Report anyone? Now getting on for TWO years overdue. |  |
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:28 - May 27 with 1015 views | BlueBadger |
My favourite thing about the SNP is how they vehemently opposed Brexit, but also pretty much utilise exactly the same arguments as Team Blue Passports and No Foreigners to make their case. [Post edited 30 May 2022 6:52]
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:30 - May 27 with 993 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 10:59 - May 27 by Darth_Koont |
There’s been over a decade of politicised attacks from the largely pro-establishment media and stooges like Jim Murphy.
Labour north of the border, but certainly south of the border, should concentrate on having a point rather than going after the smeary stuff. Not least because the current Labour Party are as bad as any organisation in terms of corruption, secrecy and coverups ... the Forde Report anyone? Now getting on for TWO years overdue. |
One of the things that has surprised me since moving to Scotland is that the SNP and Labour seem to hate each other more than they hate the Tories. |  | | |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:35 - May 27 with 982 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:28 - May 27 by BlueBadger |
My favourite thing about the SNP is how they vehemently opposed Brexit, but also pretty much utilise exactly the same arguments as Team Blue Passports and No Foreigners to make their case. [Post edited 30 May 2022 6:52]
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The main ScotNat argument for Independence is Self-determination.
The SNP has a vision of civic nationalism, rather than racial identity nationalism. This is more akin to Canada or New Zealand, for example, and says that if you are in the country legally and want to be considered Scottish, then you are Scottish, regardless of race or country of birth.
The main argument against Independence for Scotland is economic. Brexit has undermined that argument considerably, especially if the SNP are able to extract guarantees about EU accession in the run up to IndyRef2, should it happen. | | | |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:55 - May 27 with 944 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:46 - May 27 by Swansea_Blue |
The difference being they aren’t actually sovereign, whereas the UK always was. There’s some validity to their argument.
I’d like to see it happen so we get to see what happens, if you see what I mean. There’s no overarching (very simplistic) reason they couldn’t be successful as an independent state. Plenty of smaller nations manage it. Reimagining their relationship with the UK and unpicking the ties would make Brexit look like child’s play I imagine. And then what happens if they join the EU and we have a second physical customs border with the EU? An utter minefield  . |
“Reimagining their relationship with the UK and unpicking the ties would make Brexit look like child’s play I imagine”
Bit of a simplistic take given 300 years of intertwined institutions, monetary union, shared national debt, shared armed forces etc.
Ultimately I don’t really care either way regarding Scottish independence- I’ve got no skin in the game. But that’s just really parroting SNP propaganda in the same way we had with Farage et al on Brexit. | | | |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:01 - May 27 with 939 views | Swansea_Blue |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:55 - May 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“Reimagining their relationship with the UK and unpicking the ties would make Brexit look like child’s play I imagine”
Bit of a simplistic take given 300 years of intertwined institutions, monetary union, shared national debt, shared armed forces etc.
Ultimately I don’t really care either way regarding Scottish independence- I’ve got no skin in the game. But that’s just really parroting SNP propaganda in the same way we had with Farage et al on Brexit. |
Sorry if not clear, but that’s what I meant - unpicking 300 years of union would be a nightmare and make Brexit look simple. |  |
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:02 - May 27 with 934 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:01 - May 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Sorry if not clear, but that’s what I meant - unpicking 300 years of union would be a nightmare and make Brexit look simple. |
Ah okay apologies - read that the wrong way around then! | | | |
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:12 - May 27 with 909 views | Swansea_Blue |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:02 - May 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Ah okay apologies - read that the wrong way around then! |
No worries. I’ve got no skin in it either, but I reckon it would make for an interesting experiment and compelling viewing! | |
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:35 - May 27 with 885 views | GlasgowBlue |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:30 - May 27 by ArnoldMoorhen |
One of the things that has surprised me since moving to Scotland is that the SNP and Labour seem to hate each other more than they hate the Tories. |
Where about scare you based Arnie? | |
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| For those interested in politics north of the border on 20:57 - May 27 with 836 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 19:35 - May 27 by GlasgowBlue |
Where about scare you based Arnie? |
Edinburgh.
I moved in 2 days before the first lockdown. Pulled in at Scotch Corner to hear BJ introduce Chris Whitty to the nation.
My timing was either absolutely perfect, given that our entire earthly goods didn't end up in a compound in Hartlepool for 3 months, or fking atrocious, given that a week later and I'd have stayed closer to friends and family.
It has been a very weird two years. | | | |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 11:34 - May 28 with 703 views | Darth_Koont |
| For those interested in politics north of the border on 18:35 - May 27 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The main ScotNat argument for Independence is Self-determination.
The SNP has a vision of civic nationalism, rather than racial identity nationalism. This is more akin to Canada or New Zealand, for example, and says that if you are in the country legally and want to be considered Scottish, then you are Scottish, regardless of race or country of birth.
The main argument against Independence for Scotland is economic. Brexit has undermined that argument considerably, especially if the SNP are able to extract guarantees about EU accession in the run up to IndyRef2, should it happen. |
Good post.
Plus the main arguments FOR independence are also economic. Tied to a flawed and failing centralised UK, the regions and other nations of the UK are the poorest in North Western Europe. Some even to Eastern and Southern European levels.
That reality and clear economic deficit shows that independence would be the better path for Scotland than ploughing on despite the evidence, hoping for a struggling Westminster to start getting things right for a change.
Only simplistic fools see Scottish independence and Brexit the same way. But the context, evidence and benefits are totally different. Re: Scottish independence, they're all overwhelmingly real for starters. | |
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