| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" 10:51 - Nov 9 with 1171 views | Keno |
a line from one of Phil highly entertaining, informative and well written articles but it prompts a question.
Whats a half back? |  |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 10:56 - Nov 9 with 1133 views | Guthrum |
Midfielder, in modern parlance. |  |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:25 - Nov 9 with 1060 views | Keno |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 10:56 - Nov 9 by Guthrum |
Midfielder, in modern parlance. |
Defensive or more like a number 10? | |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:29 - Nov 9 with 1050 views | PJH |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:25 - Nov 9 by Keno |
Defensive or more like a number 10? |
Either.
Billy Baxter was also a half-back in that 1961/62 team but he was more defensive than Mr Elsworthy.
Everyone basically played with a goalkeeper, two fullbacks, a centre half, two halfbacks, and five forwards, including two wingers.
It is just that Sir Alf set ours up differently to anyone else in the top division at that time. |  | | |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:32 - Nov 9 with 1039 views | bournemouthblue |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:29 - Nov 9 by PJH |
Either.
Billy Baxter was also a half-back in that 1961/62 team but he was more defensive than Mr Elsworthy.
Everyone basically played with a goalkeeper, two fullbacks, a centre half, two halfbacks, and five forwards, including two wingers.
It is just that Sir Alf set ours up differently to anyone else in the top division at that time. |
wasn't it the traditional 442 essentially, cutting edge at the time? |  |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:37 - Nov 9 with 1026 views | MattinLondon |
Never mind that, the other day some commentator labelled Joao Cancelo a ‘false full-back’. What with false number 10s and false number 9s do any players actually play in their stated position? |  | | |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:45 - Nov 9 with 1000 views | PJH |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:32 - Nov 9 by bournemouthblue |
wasn't it the traditional 442 essentially, cutting edge at the time? |
It was a sort of 442 before such a thing 'existed' in England.
I think Brazil played 442 in the 1962 WC but how long before then that they played it, I don't know.
Sir Alf played his two wingers very deep compared with convention at the time, particularly Jimmy Leadbetter.
Crawford and Phillips were certainly a front two, with inside right Dougie Moran playing slightly deeper.
It was not a rigid 442 because Roy Stephenson at outside right was more attacking than Leadbetter so it was certainly different to the England formation under Sir Alf in 1966 | | | |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:53 - Nov 9 with 964 views | Keno |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:45 - Nov 9 by PJH |
It was a sort of 442 before such a thing 'existed' in England.
I think Brazil played 442 in the 1962 WC but how long before then that they played it, I don't know.
Sir Alf played his two wingers very deep compared with convention at the time, particularly Jimmy Leadbetter.
Crawford and Phillips were certainly a front two, with inside right Dougie Moran playing slightly deeper.
It was not a rigid 442 because Roy Stephenson at outside right was more attacking than Leadbetter so it was certainly different to the England formation under Sir Alf in 1966 |
Here’s a little challenge for you
Can you fit players in the current squad into that formation? | |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 14:30 - Nov 9 with 841 views | BasingstokeBlue |
A half-back is a back (defender) that plays not so deep as the full-backs. Their role has been taken, nowaday, by wing-backs and defensive midfielders.
The classic formation of the era was (if memory serves me correctly) something like
--------------------------- - goalkeeper -------------------------
-------------- full-back (R) ---------full-back (L) -------------
----- half-back (R) ----- centre-half ---- half-back (L) ----
---------------- --inside-right --------- inside-left ----------
--------------------------- centre forward -------------------
outside right -------------------------------------- outside-left |  |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 14:47 - Nov 9 with 815 views | oldburian |
Ellsworthy started as a centre forward, saw him score a hat trick against Coventry in October 1953, but a cartilage operation meant he moved back into the midfield.
He would have gone to World Cup in 1958 if Wales could have afforded to take the full quota of 22 apparently. |  | | |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 14:48 - Nov 9 with 812 views | Keno |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 14:30 - Nov 9 by BasingstokeBlue |
A half-back is a back (defender) that plays not so deep as the full-backs. Their role has been taken, nowaday, by wing-backs and defensive midfielders.
The classic formation of the era was (if memory serves me correctly) something like
--------------------------- - goalkeeper -------------------------
-------------- full-back (R) ---------full-back (L) -------------
----- half-back (R) ----- centre-half ---- half-back (L) ----
---------------- --inside-right --------- inside-left ----------
--------------------------- centre forward -------------------
outside right -------------------------------------- outside-left |
You can just imagine if there had been a TWtD back then
Frimmers granddad and factors debating iftown where playing a back 2, 3 or 5 | |
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| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 17:49 - Nov 9 with 750 views | Vic |
| "John Elsworthy, who played at half-back in Sir Alf Ramsey’s side" on 11:45 - Nov 9 by PJH |
It was a sort of 442 before such a thing 'existed' in England.
I think Brazil played 442 in the 1962 WC but how long before then that they played it, I don't know.
Sir Alf played his two wingers very deep compared with convention at the time, particularly Jimmy Leadbetter.
Crawford and Phillips were certainly a front two, with inside right Dougie Moran playing slightly deeper.
It was not a rigid 442 because Roy Stephenson at outside right was more attacking than Leadbetter so it was certainly different to the England formation under Sir Alf in 1966 |
I love your knowledge from all those years ago; it’s one of the lovely things abou5 this place that we have the likes of Sitters who only knows the Naughties through to you and a couple of others that go back even before the glory years. Keep it up! [Post edited 9 Nov 2022 19:58]
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