| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:32 - Feb 7 with 2159 views | Oldsmoker |
So the 'Take back Control' mantra was for our rulers to have absolute power over us.
We lose any means to appeal against rulings that affect us or against those who make the rules.
...apart from a GE vote every 5 years which if they have absolute power will be done away with too. |  |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:56 - Feb 7 with 2136 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:32 - Feb 7 by Oldsmoker |
So the 'Take back Control' mantra was for our rulers to have absolute power over us.
We lose any means to appeal against rulings that affect us or against those who make the rules.
...apart from a GE vote every 5 years which if they have absolute power will be done away with too. |
Quite. Even my staunchly Tory late Dad, as a refugee from Hitler, would have been horrified at the move to remove the UK from the ECHR.
It's no longer hyperbolic or overstating the case to say the tories are trying to engineer a dictatorship, esp when you consider their moves into requiring ID for voters which will particularly hit young people.
"Dictatorship: form of govt. in which ... a small group possesses absolute power without effective constitutional limitations."
Only positive of this horrifying move is that the more they try to push it, the more likely they are to ensure a Labour victory at next GE. Even some of their own MPs are objecting, I believe (need to check) - hence the urgency needed for as many people as poss to contact their own MPs. |  |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 16:09 - Feb 7 with 2014 views | HARRY10 |
"“removes and restricts certain human rights protections that the government finds inconvenient"
Gosh, who would have thought that ?
Brexit was a means for the wealthy to remove standards that ensured equal treatment for workers.
I'll admit Truss is talking of reducing wages (already been done), sick pay, holiday pay - but that is just Truss, surely her idiocy suggests that is just her and not the true voice of brexit.
Were millions so easily conned. Was brexit turkeys voting for Xmas ?
Reemember what the Sun told the thickos
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4141891/food-essentials-such-as-bread-milk-and-mea |  | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 17:48 - Feb 7 with 1950 views | DJR |
Brexit has never had any intellectual rationale or coherence, so the doubling down on removing retained EU legislation in a rush and without proper scrutiny is a desperate attempt to shore up the Tory vote by appealing to Brexit voters. |  | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 18:23 - Feb 7 with 1903 views | HARRY10 |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 17:48 - Feb 7 by DJR |
Brexit has never had any intellectual rationale or coherence, so the doubling down on removing retained EU legislation in a rush and without proper scrutiny is a desperate attempt to shore up the Tory vote by appealing to Brexit voters. |
Whilst that might be a bonus, there is the urgency to get this done before they are thrown out - single or double quilt.
Having Truss admit that the main thrust of brexit was to gain an advantage by removing the need for the UK to have 'costly' regulation, as agreed with the EU this has now become a schorched earth policy, destroy everything so as the delay the next government inreturning the UK to sanity.
Unfortunately, as has been pointed, out it is not known what standards are used to ensure trade between tge UK and the EU - or, in fact what part of the UK will be affected.
As it wull fail, if only that the stick insect is in charge - the thought is however the stab in the back theory will be used.
"We tried but we were thwarted by the traitorous wealthy, sneering, metropolitan, toffee eating, left wing financing, wokist elites"
There is also the quite obvious reality that should the UK try to get one over the EU by undercutting wages or using dodgy ingredients etc it will be treated the same as other non EU countries - tarrifs will be appllied | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 11:20 - Feb 8 with 1802 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 18:23 - Feb 7 by HARRY10 |
Whilst that might be a bonus, there is the urgency to get this done before they are thrown out - single or double quilt.
Having Truss admit that the main thrust of brexit was to gain an advantage by removing the need for the UK to have 'costly' regulation, as agreed with the EU this has now become a schorched earth policy, destroy everything so as the delay the next government inreturning the UK to sanity.
Unfortunately, as has been pointed, out it is not known what standards are used to ensure trade between tge UK and the EU - or, in fact what part of the UK will be affected.
As it wull fail, if only that the stick insect is in charge - the thought is however the stab in the back theory will be used.
"We tried but we were thwarted by the traitorous wealthy, sneering, metropolitan, toffee eating, left wing financing, wokist elites"
There is also the quite obvious reality that should the UK try to get one over the EU by undercutting wages or using dodgy ingredients etc it will be treated the same as other non EU countries - tarrifs will be appllied |
Any chance you could translate your 4th para please, Harry? 😂
Anyway, another nudge for people to email their MPs. Last para of mine sent to Julian Smith (con, Skipton & Ripon) yesterday lunchtime said:
"Irrespective of party politics, it would be absolutely tragic for the UK & a complete betrayal of the humanitarian charter* authored by two Tory greats (Sir Winston Churchill & David Maxwell-Fyfe) as a response to the Holocaust & other horrors of WW2, for your party to now shamefully ditch it. History would not look on that kindly."
Still not had a reply other than the automatic 'received' one.
*ie the ECHR | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 18:42 - Feb 8 with 1722 views | Ryorry |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:03 - Feb 13 with 1496 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 11:20 - Feb 8 by Ryorry |
Any chance you could translate your 4th para please, Harry? 😂
Anyway, another nudge for people to email their MPs. Last para of mine sent to Julian Smith (con, Skipton & Ripon) yesterday lunchtime said:
"Irrespective of party politics, it would be absolutely tragic for the UK & a complete betrayal of the humanitarian charter* authored by two Tory greats (Sir Winston Churchill & David Maxwell-Fyfe) as a response to the Holocaust & other horrors of WW2, for your party to now shamefully ditch it. History would not look on that kindly."
Still not had a reply other than the automatic 'received' one.
*ie the ECHR |
So worth emailing him then 
Reply received this morning -
"Thank you for taking the time to write to me. Yours views regarding the UK’s position in the European Convention on Human Rights has been noted.
Kind regards
Julian" | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:35 - Feb 13 with 1450 views | azuremerlangus |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:56 - Feb 7 by Ryorry |
Quite. Even my staunchly Tory late Dad, as a refugee from Hitler, would have been horrified at the move to remove the UK from the ECHR.
It's no longer hyperbolic or overstating the case to say the tories are trying to engineer a dictatorship, esp when you consider their moves into requiring ID for voters which will particularly hit young people.
"Dictatorship: form of govt. in which ... a small group possesses absolute power without effective constitutional limitations."
Only positive of this horrifying move is that the more they try to push it, the more likely they are to ensure a Labour victory at next GE. Even some of their own MPs are objecting, I believe (need to check) - hence the urgency needed for as many people as poss to contact their own MPs. |
I think there is some confusion over the ECHR and the EU - two very separate things and we have only left the latter.
Huge debate about the existing EU laws and how what we do with then when it comes to the our laws - whether they get put on our statute books in one lump and then weed out the ones we don’t want (via parliament votes) or just cherry pick the ones that suit (government preference surprisingly!) |  |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 13:44 - Feb 13 with 1390 views | HARRY10 |
what underpins this is the belief that as regulation cots, the UK could thrive if it freed itself from regulation. However, you only need to look at the intelkect of those who spout this nonsense, Truss, Rees-Mogg..
This overlooks the reality that goids produced at a lower standard will either not be allowed for sale in the EU, and where they are will be hit with tariffs. It also means you end up competing with Oz & NZ, as well as the US in meat products. Agains as that means growth hormones at a level the EU does not deem safe for it's citizens.
This is understodd by serious business people, hence the unanimity in business opposing brexit. Sadly it was not even known by brexit voters as their grasp of the question never went any furthetr than the bleat they had learnt from the betters " master knows best, project fear..... baa baa"
And the irony is while those cranks such as Truss keep squeaking about growth, it is those very brexit policies that have driven up costly checks and delays on UK goods being exported by making the EU a tthird country (non EU).
Elsewhere
" AstraZeneca, the pharmaceutical firm lauded for providing its Covid-19 vaccine at cost to the UK and developing-world countries, said it would make Ireland the location of a new factory once destined to nestle near its existing UK manufacturing centres in north-west England. Before Brexit, the UK’s pharma industry benefited from £2bn of EU research funding. No longer.
In a report earlier this month, Bailey (BoE chief) said the impact of leaving the EU’s single market and customs union was being felt more acutely on the UK’s trade than first estimated. As recently as November, the central bank believed some of the administrative hold-ups at the border and the unwillingness of exporters to overcome the mountain of paperwork and extra costs they face to send goods to the EU would have faded by now. It has not."
Which rather explains the meeting over the weekend where it is thought the need to move back into the EU needs to be speeded, before brexit does much more damage | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 14:30 - Feb 13 with 1331 views | DJR |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:03 - Feb 13 by Ryorry |
So worth emailing him then
Reply received this morning -
"Thank you for taking the time to write to me. Yours views regarding the UK’s position in the European Convention on Human Rights has been noted.
Kind regards
Julian" |
Julian Smith strikes me as one of the more rational Tories. He took a sensible line when Northern Ireland Secretary, did not vote in favour of the Bill overriding the Northern Ireland Protocol, and was also a Remainer, so I imagine he would oppose leaving the ECHR. | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 14:32 - Feb 13 with 1330 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 12:35 - Feb 13 by azuremerlangus |
I think there is some confusion over the ECHR and the EU - two very separate things and we have only left the latter.
Huge debate about the existing EU laws and how what we do with then when it comes to the our laws - whether they get put on our statute books in one lump and then weed out the ones we don’t want (via parliament votes) or just cherry pick the ones that suit (government preference surprisingly!) |
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/jan/25/rishi-sunak-told-to-ditch-plans-to-o | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 14:58 - Feb 13 with 1316 views | HARRY10 |
I think Sunak handing the job to the ever dim stick insect is as good as ditching it | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 15:07 - Feb 13 with 1309 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 14:30 - Feb 13 by DJR |
Julian Smith strikes me as one of the more rational Tories. He took a sensible line when Northern Ireland Secretary, did not vote in favour of the Bill overriding the Northern Ireland Protocol, and was also a Remainer, so I imagine he would oppose leaving the ECHR. |
And a very neutral reply is suggesting he is not trying to justify it at all too.
There will be a standard party headquarters reply sent out that will outline the horrors of something they blame on the EU and then deflect to saying how they are spending more and improving the economy all thanks to leaving the EU. If an MP isn't sending that out, it is fairly telling even if they can't bring themselves to openly disagree with the policy.
Well done, Ryorry, for making a point to the MP. |  |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 15:30 - Feb 13 with 1272 views | HARRY10 |
"The UK has suffered a loss of business investment since the 2016 Brexit referendum worth £29bn, or £1,000 a household, according to a study by a senior Bank of England official."
Mon 13 Feb 2023 14.28
What should be disturbing reading is now simply a run of the mill comment.
Far from the idiotic guff of cheaper food, umpteen new deals and a unicorn for every household, what is unfolding is reminiscent of the pandemic. A horror that gets worse by the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/brexit-hit-uk-growth-by-29bn-sa | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 16:14 - Feb 13 with 1215 views | DJR |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 15:07 - Feb 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And a very neutral reply is suggesting he is not trying to justify it at all too.
There will be a standard party headquarters reply sent out that will outline the horrors of something they blame on the EU and then deflect to saying how they are spending more and improving the economy all thanks to leaving the EU. If an MP isn't sending that out, it is fairly telling even if they can't bring themselves to openly disagree with the policy.
Well done, Ryorry, for making a point to the MP. |
Yes well done too, Ryorry.
Sadly it's not worth doing that with my MP, Tom Tugendhat, who, to use a military metaphor, has never put his head above the parapet in his time as an MP.
He was a Remainer, but during the Brexit campaign, he never took part in the local cross party Remain campaign because he was terrified of losing the votes of the Brexiteers in his party and constituency. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 16:15]
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 16:17 - Feb 13 with 1202 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 16:14 - Feb 13 by DJR |
Yes well done too, Ryorry.
Sadly it's not worth doing that with my MP, Tom Tugendhat, who, to use a military metaphor, has never put his head above the parapet in his time as an MP.
He was a Remainer, but during the Brexit campaign, he never took part in the local cross party Remain campaign because he was terrified of losing the votes of the Brexiteers in his party and constituency. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 16:15]
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I do wonder with MPs like that whether it is worth the bother but they will be aware of when their Inbox is more full than normal. | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 16:47 - Feb 13 with 1169 views | DJR |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 16:17 - Feb 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I do wonder with MPs like that whether it is worth the bother but they will be aware of when their Inbox is more full than normal. |
Given the nature of the constituency, I imagine only immigration and the like fills his inbox.
I have a couple of times emailed him but not got any adequate response, so I just don't bother knowing what little backbone he has, even on issues where he should disagree with the Government.
The thing is I have knowledge of him because I was involved with the local Labour party when he first stood as an MP, and I saw him in action at various hustings. He came across as hopeless with no political knowledge or sense, and I don't think he has got any better.
He's a one-trick pony whose only supposed expertise is in things like foreign affairs.
Perhaps what best sums up how clueless he is, is when he appeared on the Week in Westminster about three or four years ago. Asked to come up with a bold new policy, his response was a return to the sort of wider share ownership that Mrs Thatcher promoted. [Post edited 13 Feb 2023 17:26]
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 17:10 - Feb 13 with 1146 views | HARRY10 |
The ERG are fighting a losing battle. They may want the UK to become some sort of latter day North Korea, A stae isolated and inward looking, but they are in a shrinking minority.
They'll huff and they'll puff, just as they did when the bloater told the nottoo bright that he would overturn the NI protocol on the basis that some incompetent had signed the UK to it.
No way was the UK going to pay the so called divorce bill. It has, or is doing so to be exact.
Simiarly the £2bn fine to the EU for allowing fraud. They could go whistle, agreed the bloater. The UK started paying that fine when the gutbucket was PM. The second and final payment was made a couple of weeks back.
I expect there were 'Brexity types' in Bristol and elsewhere who objected to the standardisation of time in the mid 19th century, whereby the country adopted Greenwich mean time - as did the rest of the world eventually.
Brexity types who think that there is something patriotic about being out of sync with everyone else, but who are in reality no more than cranks.
Things are to an agreed standard, for fairly obvious and practical reasons. It is not so much that the UK will struggle by excluding itself from the rest of the world, but that too many have too much to lose by allowing, what are a bunch of nutters, to hold sway.
And that is what will count.....eventually. | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:22 - Feb 13 with 1093 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 15:07 - Feb 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And a very neutral reply is suggesting he is not trying to justify it at all too.
There will be a standard party headquarters reply sent out that will outline the horrors of something they blame on the EU and then deflect to saying how they are spending more and improving the economy all thanks to leaving the EU. If an MP isn't sending that out, it is fairly telling even if they can't bring themselves to openly disagree with the policy.
Well done, Ryorry, for making a point to the MP. |
That's interesting, because what infuriated me was that on this fundamentally important issue, it appeared to have been written by his secretary (uncharacteristic grammar error & short reply saying zilch, when my dozen or so other emails to him over the past 10 years on various issues always elicited a much fuller reply than that, to his credit).
Yes he's a more decent Tory than some & did an excellent job for NI by all accounts, but if he were a *really* decent politician he'd resign as a Tory MP in protest against this Govt. & its policies, force a by-election, & stand as an Independent (or maybe LD) against a new Tory candidate - I think most constituents would accept that, albeit some maybe grudgingly. | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:25 - Feb 13 with 1082 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:22 - Feb 13 by Ryorry |
That's interesting, because what infuriated me was that on this fundamentally important issue, it appeared to have been written by his secretary (uncharacteristic grammar error & short reply saying zilch, when my dozen or so other emails to him over the past 10 years on various issues always elicited a much fuller reply than that, to his credit).
Yes he's a more decent Tory than some & did an excellent job for NI by all accounts, but if he were a *really* decent politician he'd resign as a Tory MP in protest against this Govt. & its policies, force a by-election, & stand as an Independent (or maybe LD) against a new Tory candidate - I think most constituents would accept that, albeit some maybe grudgingly. |
He could simply cross the house. He has no need to resign and face a bye-election. You do have to question how anyone can continue to support what the party is enacting unless they are truly supportive of the policies. | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:30 - Feb 13 with 1076 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:25 - Feb 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
He could simply cross the house. He has no need to resign and face a bye-election. You do have to question how anyone can continue to support what the party is enacting unless they are truly supportive of the policies. |
I know, but my point was that if he were to be decent enough to ditch the Tories, I'd expect him to go the whole hog & respect all of his constituents by getting a mandate from them, instead of just crossing the floor - which understandably often doesn't go down well with those who voted for the tribe, not the person. | |
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| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:41 - Feb 13 with 1055 views | HARRY10 |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:30 - Feb 13 by Ryorry |
I know, but my point was that if he were to be decent enough to ditch the Tories, I'd expect him to go the whole hog & respect all of his constituents by getting a mandate from them, instead of just crossing the floor - which understandably often doesn't go down well with those who voted for the tribe, not the person. |
Far better to resign the whip and sit as an independent - stating that is it is not him who has left the Tories, but it is they who have left him.
There are plenty of examples to give.
he would only join the Lab or Libs were he to be guaranteed to be their candidate in the next elction, as otherwise he would be better off looking for another job now, before an enormous number of ex MPs flood the market. | | | |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 20:11 - Feb 13 with 1036 views | Ryorry |
| Far from taking back control, they are taking away parliament's sovereign power on 19:41 - Feb 13 by HARRY10 |
Far better to resign the whip and sit as an independent - stating that is it is not him who has left the Tories, but it is they who have left him.
There are plenty of examples to give.
he would only join the Lab or Libs were he to be guaranteed to be their candidate in the next elction, as otherwise he would be better off looking for another job now, before an enormous number of ex MPs flood the market. |
"... not him who has left the Tories, but it is they who have left him".
Fair point, my feeling is that many Tory voters would accept that.
I think if he were to have talks with LDs here he'd be certain to get selected by them - he's v. popular (even local Labour party members have a grudging respect for him), & the LDs have a strong history in the area in locals.
Labour have usually beaten LDs into 3rd in GEs here, but in the unlikely event of Smith choosing to go full red, I think his doing so might cause pitchfork riots! | |
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