| Trumped up charges on 20:57 - Apr 4 with 1359 views | Guthrum |
They should remand him in custody as a flight risk. |  |
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| Trumped up charges on 21:00 - Apr 4 with 1354 views | ElderGrizzly |
As predicted, the grift continues.
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| Trumped up charges on 21:59 - Apr 4 with 1276 views | Guthrum |
And why will it be December before the case can be further progressed? Eight months! Quite ridiculous, really. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 22:21 - Apr 4 with 1239 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Trumped up charges on 21:59 - Apr 4 by Guthrum |
And why will it be December before the case can be further progressed? Eight months! Quite ridiculous, really. |
Trump’s team have asked for Spring, so it will be well into the Republican primaries.
The AG wants January 2024 for the trial. 4 weeks before primaries begin. Perfect… | | | |
| Trumped up charges on 07:56 - Apr 5 with 1156 views | Guthrum |
| Trumped up charges on 22:21 - Apr 4 by ElderGrizzly |
Trump’s team have asked for Spring, so it will be well into the Republican primaries.
The AG wants January 2024 for the trial. 4 weeks before primaries begin. Perfect… |
Delaying that long could end up clashing with some of Trump's other trials. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 08:22 - Apr 5 with 1144 views | DJR |
I detest Trump but I thought the following was an interesting take from the Twitter feed of the President of El Salvador, who I believe is a centrist.
"Think what you want about former President Trump and the reasons he’s being indicted.
But just imagine if this happened in any other country, where a government arrested the main opposition candidate.
The United States ability to use “democracy” as foreign policy is gone." |  | | |
| Trumped up charges on 08:49 - Apr 5 with 1112 views | Guthrum |
| Trumped up charges on 08:22 - Apr 5 by DJR |
I detest Trump but I thought the following was an interesting take from the Twitter feed of the President of El Salvador, who I believe is a centrist.
"Think what you want about former President Trump and the reasons he’s being indicted.
But just imagine if this happened in any other country, where a government arrested the main opposition candidate.
The United States ability to use “democracy” as foreign policy is gone." |
Except that "the Government" haven't. It's the judiciary, who are constitutionally separate. That comment is more a reflection upon a world where rulers often do directly control the legal system.
I suspect this is actually him taking an opportunity to have a dig at the US (given the history between the latter and Central America), than making a nuanced point. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 08:58 - Apr 5 with 1098 views | DJR |
| Trumped up charges on 08:49 - Apr 5 by Guthrum |
Except that "the Government" haven't. It's the judiciary, who are constitutionally separate. That comment is more a reflection upon a world where rulers often do directly control the legal system.
I suspect this is actually him taking an opportunity to have a dig at the US (given the history between the latter and Central America), than making a nuanced point. |
But as I have pointed out on another thread, the DA in this case is a Democrat, just as those judges who overturned Roe v Wade are Republicans, so (speaking as a lawyer) I am not convinced the US legal and judicial system is so objective as it is in this country.
Indeed, according to Wikipedia, DAs and the like, unlike similar roles in other common law judicial systems, are appointed through partisan political processes, and their holders usually have an allegiance to a political party or faction, rather than being held by a career civil servant appointed on merit in an independent process.
And when it comes to impeachment, that tends to be done on an overwhelmingly party political basis, as in the case of Clinton, on the one hand, and Trump on the other.
[Post edited 5 Apr 2023 9:12]
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| Trumped up charges on 09:06 - Apr 5 with 1080 views | blueasfook |
| Trumped up charges on 08:22 - Apr 5 by DJR |
I detest Trump but I thought the following was an interesting take from the Twitter feed of the President of El Salvador, who I believe is a centrist.
"Think what you want about former President Trump and the reasons he’s being indicted.
But just imagine if this happened in any other country, where a government arrested the main opposition candidate.
The United States ability to use “democracy” as foreign policy is gone." |
The most serious charges are still potentially to come. The state of Georgia are investigating him regarding election interference and in Washington, they are still looking at possible charges of insurrection to do with the storming of the capitol. It is remarkable really that he is still in the running for another shot at the presidency, but then millions of dumbarses still support him. |  |
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| Trumped up charges on 09:10 - Apr 5 with 1067 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Trumped up charges on 08:22 - Apr 5 by DJR |
I detest Trump but I thought the following was an interesting take from the Twitter feed of the President of El Salvador, who I believe is a centrist.
"Think what you want about former President Trump and the reasons he’s being indicted.
But just imagine if this happened in any other country, where a government arrested the main opposition candidate.
The United States ability to use “democracy” as foreign policy is gone." |
Except he's not the 'main opposition candidate'. The opposition don't yet have a candidate, he's currently a candidate to be the candidate out of six candidates.
Irrespective of his candidature, If he has broken the law, then he should be held accountable for that, whatever his status.
Nayib Bukele, the president of El Salvador is certainly not centrist either, he is widely acknowledged as far right and an authoritarian leader, and so almost certainly a close friend of Trump. |  |
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| Trumped up charges on 09:12 - Apr 5 with 1063 views | Guthrum |
| Trumped up charges on 08:58 - Apr 5 by DJR |
But as I have pointed out on another thread, the DA in this case is a Democrat, just as those judges who overturned Roe v Wade are Republicans, so (speaking as a lawyer) I am not convinced the US legal and judicial system is so objective as it is in this country.
Indeed, according to Wikipedia, DAs and the like, unlike similar roles in other common law judicial systems, are appointed through partisan political processes, and their holders usually have an allegiance to a political party or faction, rather than being held by a career civil servant appointed on merit in an independent process.
And when it comes to impeachment, that tends to be done on an overwhelmingly party political basis, as in the case of Clinton, on the one hand, and Trump on the other.
[Post edited 5 Apr 2023 9:12]
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Oh, by no means does it even pretend to be as neutral as that of the UK. However (as the Roe v Wade repeal demonstrates) neither is it under the direct control of the White House. This was the DA's own decision to prosecute, not upon orders from elsewhere.
Historically, most US officials (down to a very local level) were elected, as being the most democratic way of doing things, in an era when many governments were highly authoritarian. But, sadly and inevitably, organised political parties siezed control of the process for their own advantage.
Besides which, if candidates for high office should be immune from prosecution, what's to stop serious criminals running for President in order to escape charges? Which (along with pursuing creditors) is what I suspect to be one of Trump's primary motivations. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 09:21 - Apr 5 with 1047 views | DJR |
| Trumped up charges on 09:12 - Apr 5 by Guthrum |
Oh, by no means does it even pretend to be as neutral as that of the UK. However (as the Roe v Wade repeal demonstrates) neither is it under the direct control of the White House. This was the DA's own decision to prosecute, not upon orders from elsewhere.
Historically, most US officials (down to a very local level) were elected, as being the most democratic way of doing things, in an era when many governments were highly authoritarian. But, sadly and inevitably, organised political parties siezed control of the process for their own advantage.
Besides which, if candidates for high office should be immune from prosecution, what's to stop serious criminals running for President in order to escape charges? Which (along with pursuing creditors) is what I suspect to be one of Trump's primary motivations. |
Along with the right to bear arms, it appears to be an aspect of the constitution that has not stood the test of time, especially given the increasingly partisan nature of things in the States.
Their system has also led to grave injustices against African Americans over the years. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 9:23]
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| Trumped up charges on 09:27 - Apr 5 with 1029 views | DanTheMan |
| Trumped up charges on 09:06 - Apr 5 by blueasfook |
The most serious charges are still potentially to come. The state of Georgia are investigating him regarding election interference and in Washington, they are still looking at possible charges of insurrection to do with the storming of the capitol. It is remarkable really that he is still in the running for another shot at the presidency, but then millions of dumbarses still support him. |
The Georgia one is the important one.
I've tried to read a bit more about the charges here and from what I've read from a few lawyers, it does seem like a fairly flimsy case. |  |
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| Trumped up charges on 09:41 - Apr 5 with 966 views | Guthrum |
| Trumped up charges on 09:21 - Apr 5 by DJR |
Along with the right to bear arms, it appears to be an aspect of the constitution that has not stood the test of time, especially given the increasingly partisan nature of things in the States.
Their system has also led to grave injustices against African Americans over the years. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 9:23]
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Indeed. That is a danger of using a series of late 18th century documents to direct a 21st century society.
Written constitutions have their problems, too. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 09:48 - Apr 5 with 963 views | Guthrum |
| Trumped up charges on 09:06 - Apr 5 by blueasfook |
The most serious charges are still potentially to come. The state of Georgia are investigating him regarding election interference and in Washington, they are still looking at possible charges of insurrection to do with the storming of the capitol. It is remarkable really that he is still in the running for another shot at the presidency, but then millions of dumbarses still support him. |
Dumbarses, maybe. But also a lot of people who have seen their jobs disappear* while Washington politics promises much but delivers little. Trump offered what they wanted (something between a revolution and a return to the "good old days"), so not surprising they followed. He hasn't been around long enough to disillusion the most desperate.
* Vast numbers of mining and heavy manufacturing jobs gone, agriculture struggling in some areas. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 10:11 - Apr 5 with 931 views | DJR |
| Trumped up charges on 09:10 - Apr 5 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Except he's not the 'main opposition candidate'. The opposition don't yet have a candidate, he's currently a candidate to be the candidate out of six candidates.
Irrespective of his candidature, If he has broken the law, then he should be held accountable for that, whatever his status.
Nayib Bukele, the president of El Salvador is certainly not centrist either, he is widely acknowledged as far right and an authoritarian leader, and so almost certainly a close friend of Trump. |
I couldn't agree more with what you say in your second paragraph, but the general principle in English law, derived from R v Sussex Justices, ex parte McCarthy (1924], is that the mere appearance of bias is sufficient to overturn a judicial decision. This case brought into common parlance the oft-quoted aphorism "Not only must justice be done; it must also be seen to be done."
It is the latter which aspects of the US judicial system appear to me to call in to question. | | | |
| Trumped up charges on 10:14 - Apr 5 with 923 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Trumped up charges on 10:11 - Apr 5 by DJR |
I couldn't agree more with what you say in your second paragraph, but the general principle in English law, derived from R v Sussex Justices, ex parte McCarthy (1924], is that the mere appearance of bias is sufficient to overturn a judicial decision. This case brought into common parlance the oft-quoted aphorism "Not only must justice be done; it must also be seen to be done."
It is the latter which aspects of the US judicial system appear to me to call in to question. |
Ah, but thats English law. American law, (and America), is generally bat sh^t crazy.
You only need look at Depp v Herd to see that they don't follow the same path. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 10:15 - Apr 5 with 925 views | BlueBadger |
| Trumped up charges on 09:06 - Apr 5 by blueasfook |
The most serious charges are still potentially to come. The state of Georgia are investigating him regarding election interference and in Washington, they are still looking at possible charges of insurrection to do with the storming of the capitol. It is remarkable really that he is still in the running for another shot at the presidency, but then millions of dumbarses still support him. |
Whilst we're talking about obvious frauds perpetrated by criminals and supported by idiots, don't you still occasionally come out in support of Brexit? [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 10:16]
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| Trumped up charges on 13:03 - Apr 5 with 835 views | DJR |
Interesting to note that Trump yesterday used a common anti-semitic trope when he accused Bragg of being “hand-picked and funded by George Soros.”
George Soros is Jewish and the subject of many anti-semitic conspiracy theories. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 13:04]
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| Trumped up charges on 13:17 - Apr 5 with 808 views | DanTheMan |
| Trumped up charges on 13:03 - Apr 5 by DJR |
Interesting to note that Trump yesterday used a common anti-semitic trope when he accused Bragg of being “hand-picked and funded by George Soros.”
George Soros is Jewish and the subject of many anti-semitic conspiracy theories. [Post edited 5 Apr 2023 13:04]
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Unfortunately he's been on that band wagon for many years now. | |
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| Trumped up charges on 13:43 - Apr 5 with 768 views | HARRY10 |
| Trumped up charges on 09:27 - Apr 5 by DanTheMan |
The Georgia one is the important one.
I've tried to read a bit more about the charges here and from what I've read from a few lawyers, it does seem like a fairly flimsy case. |
eh !
The element of actus reus is not disputed, the guilty act.
What his idiot lawyers are trying to claim is there was no mens rea - guilty mind.
I watched CNN last night and they interviewed one of his lawyers. As with Johnson and the select committee, he tried all manner of distraction. Finally claiming that paying hush money to someone shortly before an election was not an offence.........though trying to hide that payment so as to avoid it being seen as an electoral expense, should be seen in the context of Trumps high moral standards.
Yes, a man who talked openly of 'gabbing pussy' tried to bribe two women (who had been the recipients of such attention) to spare any embarrassment. That someone should then claim this is flimsy does make you wonder how credulous they are.
This has direct parallels with Johnson. The events happened, but we were asked to believe some ludicrous guff about leaving parties being the explanation.
There are 'lawyers' who will tell you what you want to gear... for a fee. Trump is guilty of these acts. It's whether you believe his absurd explanation for them. |  | | |
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