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A very brave man, as were his comrades and all those that took part in the largest sea assault in history. RIP.
Remembrance indeed for them but also for those, including my uncle, involved in Operation Husky which the year previous had actually landed more troops on Sicily and there were even more landed the next year at Okinawa. Still, it makes little sense to make a league table out of these (each had its own unique aspect), just to reflect on the sad necessity of these operations at the time and, perhaps fruitlessly, hope that the future holds less peril for those at sea...and then on land.
Remembrance indeed for them but also for those, including my uncle, involved in Operation Husky which the year previous had actually landed more troops on Sicily and there were even more landed the next year at Okinawa. Still, it makes little sense to make a league table out of these (each had its own unique aspect), just to reflect on the sad necessity of these operations at the time and, perhaps fruitlessly, hope that the future holds less peril for those at sea...and then on land.
Absolutely!
The invasion of Italy is kind of forgotten, yet it was important and a hideous campaign for those involved. I lunched with a former work colleague the other day and her father fought at Monte Cassino. A truly appalling battle. She knows little about it and her father refused point blank to talk about it. She and her partner are thinking about visiting the area. I hope they do.
Remembrance for me is all encompassing - world wars and minor conflicts. You are right, it’s no league table.
Remembrance indeed for them but also for those, including my uncle, involved in Operation Husky which the year previous had actually landed more troops on Sicily and there were even more landed the next year at Okinawa. Still, it makes little sense to make a league table out of these (each had its own unique aspect), just to reflect on the sad necessity of these operations at the time and, perhaps fruitlessly, hope that the future holds less peril for those at sea...and then on land.
The D-day dodgers!
I've posted this before but worth repeating given I had uncles involved in both Italy and D-day.
There's even a song set to the tune Lily Marleen, the lyrics of which are biting, given how little their sacrifice is recognised.
[Post edited 4 Jul 2023 13:35]
I think that is the song that Denis Healey gave a, more pacy, rendition of when he was on Desert Island Discs and reminiscing about what Nancy Astor called the soldiers on the Italian campaign.
I think that is the song that Denis Healey gave a, more pacy, rendition of when he was on Desert Island Discs and reminiscing about what Nancy Astor called the soldiers on the Italian campaign.
I didn't know that but this is a report on his appearance which confirms it was.
The invasion of Italy is kind of forgotten, yet it was important and a hideous campaign for those involved. I lunched with a former work colleague the other day and her father fought at Monte Cassino. A truly appalling battle. She knows little about it and her father refused point blank to talk about it. She and her partner are thinking about visiting the area. I hope they do.
Remembrance for me is all encompassing - world wars and minor conflicts. You are right, it’s no league table.
My uncle, being in the Royal Navy, didn't have to suffer the rigours of the land battles (although he had had four years of escort duty on convoys between Alexandria and Malta, the Battle of Cape Matapan, support for the North African coast and so on by then.) When they got to Naples and ere given shore leave he returned after his forty eight hours only to find his ship had sailed and he had new orders. Spent the rest of the war on the Arctic Convoys, which must have been a bit of a shock after the Med.
If you fancy a good read about the Italian war then I recommend 'Private Angelo' by Eric Linklater, Louis DeBernieres has been reported as saying that if you want to find out what the war in Southern Europe was like then forget his own 'Captain Corelli's Mandolin' and read 'Private Angelo'.
My uncle, being in the Royal Navy, didn't have to suffer the rigours of the land battles (although he had had four years of escort duty on convoys between Alexandria and Malta, the Battle of Cape Matapan, support for the North African coast and so on by then.) When they got to Naples and ere given shore leave he returned after his forty eight hours only to find his ship had sailed and he had new orders. Spent the rest of the war on the Arctic Convoys, which must have been a bit of a shock after the Med.
If you fancy a good read about the Italian war then I recommend 'Private Angelo' by Eric Linklater, Louis DeBernieres has been reported as saying that if you want to find out what the war in Southern Europe was like then forget his own 'Captain Corelli's Mandolin' and read 'Private Angelo'.
I’ve read Holland’s books on it and one or two others, but not Private Angelo. I will though.
The Med war at sea was a cruel, long drawn out affair as was the siege of Malta. Operation Pedestal is an operation that fascinates me as it was extraordinary. Matapan - Pola, Fiume and Zara: not good for them. Taranto, convoys, Italian midget submarines at Alexandria, the wipeout of the Germans trying to get people out of N Africa and so on. It was one heck of a campaign.
Arctic convoys - nightmare. Clarkson’s documentary on the ill fated PQ17 is worth a watch as it gives a good description of what a nightmare they were. It sounds like he had a very long war and was very lucky to survive it.
Kieffer is mentioned in the film The Longest Day, using a tank to destroya gun emplacement in the casino at Ouistream.
This chap was 'fortunate' in that a foot injury kept him out of the rest of the war - most of the rest of his unit were either killed (half) or wounded.
Probably in the context of his involvement his greatest contribution was to openly speak of the utter futility of war, and it's horrors. Which does not detract from what at the time was seen as a 'job' - a very necessary job, which had to be done.
If any lesson is to be learnt, it is that, it is not those drawn or forced into the fighting - nor to some degree those at the top (Putin) but those who are unwilling to see beyond the lies that sustain such people in positions of power.
It is the constant demonising of others so as to give a focus to any frustration or stoked up anger. We as a people are best when we work together - built bridges to other folk.
It is no coincidence that Trumps slogan was 'build the wall', or that he was in league (still ?) with Putin.
Kieffer is mentioned in the film The Longest Day, using a tank to destroya gun emplacement in the casino at Ouistream.
This chap was 'fortunate' in that a foot injury kept him out of the rest of the war - most of the rest of his unit were either killed (half) or wounded.
Probably in the context of his involvement his greatest contribution was to openly speak of the utter futility of war, and it's horrors. Which does not detract from what at the time was seen as a 'job' - a very necessary job, which had to be done.
If any lesson is to be learnt, it is that, it is not those drawn or forced into the fighting - nor to some degree those at the top (Putin) but those who are unwilling to see beyond the lies that sustain such people in positions of power.
It is the constant demonising of others so as to give a focus to any frustration or stoked up anger. We as a people are best when we work together - built bridges to other folk.
It is no coincidence that Trumps slogan was 'build the wall', or that he was in league (still ?) with Putin.
I don’t think anyone who’s seen the worst would describe it as anything but wasteful, futile and ghastly. But yes, sometimes it has to be done. Necessity.
My father in law, who was in the navy in WW2 and witnessed/took part in some dreadful things certainly viewed it that way. His focus after leaving the navy in 1946 was building a future, his family and his life. For him, what had to be done was done and a line drawn under it. He knew I was very interested but it wasn’t a period of his life he wanted to talk about.
You correctly used the words building bridges. He did that after the war, travelling with his new wife across Europe and certainly showed now animosity whatsoever towards former enemies.
The Putins and Trumps of this world do not build anything. They literally live like parasites off others, in Putin’s case happily seeing 1000s die for his own perverted view of the world. The only thing he values is what he sees in the mirror. It’s why necessity says he has to be got rid of.
Here's an interesting video on the Italian campaign from a Canadian point of view, with the suggestion that the US wanted to take the glory for capturing Rome.
Here's an interesting video on the Italian campaign from a Canadian point of view, with the suggestion that the US wanted to take the glory for capturing Rome.
My understanding is that against the orders of his superior Alexander, the American Fifth Army commander Mark Clark chose to take Rome, basically for personal glory, over encircling the German army. The decision cost 1000s of lives.
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