| Old Uncle Factual 18:13 - Nov 13 with 850 views | factual_blue |
I've finally got some missing pieces of the jigsaw about his wartime service: precisely which battalion of his regiment he was in, and his service number.
UOF was made by his employer down in Surrey (I think this was Lord Iveagh at Pyrford Court. Pyford Court was, incidentally a key location for the film The Omen) to join the local territorials as a condition of his employment.
From the regiment's website, I've been able to piece together his battalion's movements during the war. They were in France at the start of the war, and were part of the rearguard that retreating to Cherbourg from where they were evacuated.
Then they were on home defence duties until 1942 when they went to Iraq, until March 1943.
Next came 'the longest march' from Kirkuk in Iraq to Libya. As this was over 3,000 miles in about five weeks, I don't think they marched much of the way (unless they could march about 100 miles a day).
They were then in action in April 1943 at Enfidaville in the last stages of the N Africa campaign. They were then in reserve for several months, during which time they were guarding POWs ('them eyeties were dirty beggers. They'd just sit down in the compound to have a sh!t. I'd give them five round sfrom my sten gun, aiming just in front of them. That stopped 'em').
They landed at Salerno in September 1943. Shortly after that UOF was wounded, lying out on a hillside overnight, playing dead as German patrols were shooting the wounded. That was the end of his war.
I'm going to get his service record next. In particular I want to find out whether he was actually in France in 1940. Then I went at some point to go to the Surrey Records Offce and have a look at the appropriate War Diaries.
His elder brother (my dad) didn't see active service, partly due to age and more particularly due to being as blind as a bat. He spent 2-3 years as a RAF chef at Gananoque Airfield near Ottawa in Canada. The airfield was part of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan (BCATP) . I think he was then in Germany at the very end of the war - some German names & addresses in his diary and a photograph of Christmas meal he's serving up under a banner that's in both English and German.
I love a bit of historical research. |  |
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| Old Uncle Factual on 18:19 - Nov 13 with 797 views | Father_Jack |
Your dad and mine might have crossed paths, as mine did some of his pilot training in Canada. He saw a bit of action, mainly in Burma/India but all at the end of the war. |  |
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| Old Uncle Factual on 18:51 - Nov 13 with 758 views | Churchman |
Thank you for sharing this. It’s fascinating to me, as I’m very interested in this sort of thing.
The British Army in WW2 was very much into mechanisation - use up equipment rather than men! My amateur guess, especially given conditions in that part of the world, is that he travelled by lorry or something like a Bren Gun Carrier.
Much of the German army by comparison mostly moved by foot and horse.
The invasion of Italy was considered by Churchill the ‘soft underbelly of the Axis’. It was anything but. World at War correctly titled it ‘Tough Old Gut’. The fighting was desperately hard, including Salerno. Your UOF was a very brave man and clearly had an active war to say the least. A close friend of mine’s dad was wounded at Cassino. A horrific battle. She says he never truly got over it.
It is interesting to learn of your dad’s wartime experience. One of the fascinating things about Britain at the time was that it was the only country that engaged in total war. Everybody did something, men and women and everything was as important as the guys in the front line. Their stories are important. They complete the history.
My mate’s dad was an RAF Fitter in the Western Desert. No Fitters, no aircraft. My dad’s father was a special constable, the other one worked on recovery crews rescuing people from bombed buildings. My mum was in the ATS 1944/45. Everybody did something.
Keep us informed of your research please! |  | | |
| Old Uncle Factual on 19:03 - Nov 13 with 731 views | factual_blue |
| Old Uncle Factual on 18:51 - Nov 13 by Churchman |
Thank you for sharing this. It’s fascinating to me, as I’m very interested in this sort of thing.
The British Army in WW2 was very much into mechanisation - use up equipment rather than men! My amateur guess, especially given conditions in that part of the world, is that he travelled by lorry or something like a Bren Gun Carrier.
Much of the German army by comparison mostly moved by foot and horse.
The invasion of Italy was considered by Churchill the ‘soft underbelly of the Axis’. It was anything but. World at War correctly titled it ‘Tough Old Gut’. The fighting was desperately hard, including Salerno. Your UOF was a very brave man and clearly had an active war to say the least. A close friend of mine’s dad was wounded at Cassino. A horrific battle. She says he never truly got over it.
It is interesting to learn of your dad’s wartime experience. One of the fascinating things about Britain at the time was that it was the only country that engaged in total war. Everybody did something, men and women and everything was as important as the guys in the front line. Their stories are important. They complete the history.
My mate’s dad was an RAF Fitter in the Western Desert. No Fitters, no aircraft. My dad’s father was a special constable, the other one worked on recovery crews rescuing people from bombed buildings. My mum was in the ATS 1944/45. Everybody did something.
Keep us informed of your research please! |
My mum started out with the NAAFI, at an RAF base in Essex (probably). She asked to be moved because it was too upsetting. Far too often the scene from Angels One Five (starring Jack Hawkins) where the half-empty pint glass is still on the mantelpiece the following morning because the flyer didn't come back. She moved instead to an army camp, where the new recruits were there for a few weeks and then left together, which was easier to cope with.
From that she went to make 25lb-er shells, and then Bailey Bridges, in Braintree. She ended up as a welder, but didn't follow it up as a post-war career.
My mad aunt worked in Harrods during the day and did nighttime shifts on the building's roof as a fire-watcher. As I say, mad. Who sits on a roof during bombing raids. | |
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| Old Uncle Factual on 19:03 - Nov 13 with 730 views | factual_blue |
| Old Uncle Factual on 18:19 - Nov 13 by Father_Jack |
Your dad and mine might have crossed paths, as mine did some of his pilot training in Canada. He saw a bit of action, mainly in Burma/India but all at the end of the war. |
He never mentioned your dad. | |
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| Old Uncle Factual on 21:19 - Nov 13 with 680 views | Plums |
| Old Uncle Factual on 19:03 - Nov 13 by factual_blue |
My mum started out with the NAAFI, at an RAF base in Essex (probably). She asked to be moved because it was too upsetting. Far too often the scene from Angels One Five (starring Jack Hawkins) where the half-empty pint glass is still on the mantelpiece the following morning because the flyer didn't come back. She moved instead to an army camp, where the new recruits were there for a few weeks and then left together, which was easier to cope with.
From that she went to make 25lb-er shells, and then Bailey Bridges, in Braintree. She ended up as a welder, but didn't follow it up as a post-war career.
My mad aunt worked in Harrods during the day and did nighttime shifts on the building's roof as a fire-watcher. As I say, mad. Who sits on a roof during bombing raids. |
Loving these stories. Whilst I haven't yet put much effort into researching Grandad Plums' 2WW journey, the things I have found out are intriguing.
He was an RAF photographer who travelled to Northern France in August 44 as part of 1 Mobile Field Photographic Section (MFPS). They had fleets of huge trucks with mobile darkrooms and processing kit and used to send the pictures taken by the RAF and other air forces off to the army ASAP so they knew what was ahead of them. Because Grandad was behind the camera, we have very few pictures of him during the war. However we do have pictures he took of the Mona Lisa, Venus de Milo and other treasures and locations (e.g. Cologne cathedral, various Dutch and German bridges etc), presumably as a record for the army of occupation.
For ages I wondered about the photos of burning planes we had but after finding an RAF journal, I think they're Melsbroek airfield near Brussels in the aftermath of Operation Bodenplatte, the Luftwaffe's last big 'show'. It seems one part of the MFPS was billeted on one side of the road and another was opposite. The bombs obliterated one group, the others escaped. Presumably the old boy was in the latter.
We know his guys were also sent to Belsen to record the horrors that were uncovered there. He never spoke of it.
I also have a photo of a Christmas in Germany. It's great to see them making the most of the aftermath of a traumatic few years. I have tracked down the son of his best friend and shared a couple of pictures and am hoping he might have some with Grandad in.
As you say, everybody played their part. We owe them all a huge amount of debt and respect. Let's keep their stories alive. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 21:33]
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| Old Uncle Factual on 21:53 - Nov 13 with 637 views | Coastalblue |
| Old Uncle Factual on 19:03 - Nov 13 by factual_blue |
My mum started out with the NAAFI, at an RAF base in Essex (probably). She asked to be moved because it was too upsetting. Far too often the scene from Angels One Five (starring Jack Hawkins) where the half-empty pint glass is still on the mantelpiece the following morning because the flyer didn't come back. She moved instead to an army camp, where the new recruits were there for a few weeks and then left together, which was easier to cope with.
From that she went to make 25lb-er shells, and then Bailey Bridges, in Braintree. She ended up as a welder, but didn't follow it up as a post-war career.
My mad aunt worked in Harrods during the day and did nighttime shifts on the building's roof as a fire-watcher. As I say, mad. Who sits on a roof during bombing raids. |
There was a group of volunteers who used to sit on the roof of St Paul's to kick the incendiaries off as they came down. I did quite a bit of research into East London during WW2 when I was conducting walking tours around there, what people lived through and how they carried on just beggars belief, and makes you appreciate people in the world who are suffering similar or worse now.
I want to try and trace Grandad Coastal, I knind of know how he spent the early part of the war, training in Ireland mostly, but it gets a bit more difficult after he went to Normandy. |  |
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| Old Uncle Factual on 00:02 - Nov 14 with 582 views | WeWereZombies |
So your uncle was being transported to Libya whilst my uncle was in the Med with the Royal Navy and then closer still as HMS Nubian supported the Allied invasion of Italy as far as Naples, at which point he was suddenly picked for ASDIC (Sonar) training on the Isle of Man before joining the Arctic Convoys. |  |
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| Old Uncle Factual on 04:16 - Nov 14 with 547 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Old Uncle Factual on 18:19 - Nov 13 by Father_Jack |
Your dad and mine might have crossed paths, as mine did some of his pilot training in Canada. He saw a bit of action, mainly in Burma/India but all at the end of the war. |
Might've met my owd fella, too. He drove in fuel convoys to Cox's Bazar and served as ground crew.
In the seventies he met my prospective father-in-law who, as a pilot, had fuelled at Cox's at the time my dad was there. (FiL had trained in Phoenix). |  |
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