| Niche hive mind request. 22:34 - Sep 9 with 2803 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
If an elderly person living in a mobile home which they own without owning the land ends up in a care home is that property value likely to be included towards the cost of care?
Asking for a friend. |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 22:50 - Sep 9 with 2713 views | Lord_Lucan |
I am certainly no expert Stevie but I can't see any value in the property, unless of course he owns the leasehold of the land perhaps? |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 23:06 - Sep 9 with 2662 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Niche hive mind request. on 22:50 - Sep 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I am certainly no expert Stevie but I can't see any value in the property, unless of course he owns the leasehold of the land perhaps? |
It's a minefield Allan but I think your point is key. This is from an Age UK leaflet....
"It is not always clear whether park or mobile homes should be included
in the financial assessment. Personal possessions (chattel) cannot be
included in the assessment, provided eligible capital is not used to
purchase them to avoid care costs.
There is a spectrum of ownership status from long-term lease to a
license, which is more like rental. Other aspects include the landlord’s
right of entry. There may be other complexities, for example the division
of ownership between the park or mobile home itself and the ground it
stands upon."
It's quite tragic Allan, she fell and banged her head after a few glasses of sambuka and it brought on a sudden case of dementia. [Post edited 9 Sep 2024 23:08]
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| Niche hive mind request. on 07:53 - Sep 10 with 2472 views | DJR |
| Niche hive mind request. on 23:06 - Sep 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's a minefield Allan but I think your point is key. This is from an Age UK leaflet....
"It is not always clear whether park or mobile homes should be included
in the financial assessment. Personal possessions (chattel) cannot be
included in the assessment, provided eligible capital is not used to
purchase them to avoid care costs.
There is a spectrum of ownership status from long-term lease to a
license, which is more like rental. Other aspects include the landlord’s
right of entry. There may be other complexities, for example the division
of ownership between the park or mobile home itself and the ground it
stands upon."
It's quite tragic Allan, she fell and banged her head after a few glasses of sambuka and it brought on a sudden case of dementia. [Post edited 9 Sep 2024 23:08]
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I am no expert in this area, but if the home was bought and has a resale value, I would have thought it would be included.
I might add that I came across this on a park home sale website.
"We are receiving more and more enquiries directly by email and telephone from people looking to rent a park home.
However, we would like to advise that there are very few parks who rent park homes as a general practice, as opposed to selling them." |  | | |
| Niche hive mind request. on 07:59 - Sep 10 with 2432 views | Deano69 |
On a bit of a tangent. What are the rules on equity release? If you cash in a good proportion your property to fund car/holidays/general living costs, is there any way to claw back? |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 08:10 - Sep 10 with 2390 views | Lord_Lucan |
I would also add that TW4TD is probably not as ideal a place of advice as a solicitor, or probably even Bob down the pub. | |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 08:15 - Sep 10 with 2370 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:10 - Sep 10 by Lord_Lucan |
I would also add that TW4TD is probably not as ideal a place of advice as a solicitor, or probably even Bob down the pub. |
She (86) had not granted 'lasting power of attorney' as she has no biological family so the matter is now in the hands of social services. | |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 08:29 - Sep 10 with 2313 views | bluelagos |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:15 - Sep 10 by BanksterDebtSlave |
She (86) had not granted 'lasting power of attorney' as she has no biological family so the matter is now in the hands of social services. |
Sounds a nightmare.
One thing (for all of us middle aged townies) is to sort out a Power of Attorney before you need it. The forms take months to be processed.
We did them for my Dad and I got the power of attorney a day before he passed away, sod all use then.
The doctors were actually very good in taking our views into account ref treatment but legally we would have no input if there had been conflicting wishes. |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 08:40 - Sep 10 with 2270 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The short answer is yes. |  |
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| Power of Attorney on 09:04 - Sep 10 with 2237 views | BlueJudge |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:29 - Sep 10 by bluelagos |
Sounds a nightmare.
One thing (for all of us middle aged townies) is to sort out a Power of Attorney before you need it. The forms take months to be processed.
We did them for my Dad and I got the power of attorney a day before he passed away, sod all use then.
The doctors were actually very good in taking our views into account ref treatment but legally we would have no input if there had been conflicting wishes. |
Yes! Set up a Power of Attorney before you need it. It is easy to do yourself online on Gov.uk. You need to know who is going to fulfil certain roles, but the form is simple once you have sorted that. Costs about £80 per PoA and you need one for Finance and one for Health/Care. I got mine and the wife’s sorted recently without the need for a fee-charging 3rd party. I also did will update recently, but used a 3rd party for that element! (Coop Legal services who were very thorough but worth the money). | | | |
| Niche hive mind request. on 09:58 - Sep 10 with 2088 views | Deano69 |
Useful that, thanks. Although if you have gone on lots of holidays, while they may still 'count' this, with no money available, I wonder what's the plan to support ones care then? | |
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| Power of Attorney on 10:40 - Sep 10 with 2025 views | Guthrum |
| Power of Attorney on 09:04 - Sep 10 by BlueJudge |
Yes! Set up a Power of Attorney before you need it. It is easy to do yourself online on Gov.uk. You need to know who is going to fulfil certain roles, but the form is simple once you have sorted that. Costs about £80 per PoA and you need one for Finance and one for Health/Care. I got mine and the wife’s sorted recently without the need for a fee-charging 3rd party. I also did will update recently, but used a 3rd party for that element! (Coop Legal services who were very thorough but worth the money). |
Yes, Mum organised both sorts for herself years before her health problems occurred. Was literally a life-saver when she was in hospital unable to make decisions and my brother (who was on hand and, during Covid time, only one of us was allowed to visit) was able to ask questions and make decisions which enabled her to go home and spend her last year and a half there.
She got a third party to help with setting it up. Cost a bit, but ensured that everything was done right. |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 10:49 - Sep 10 with 1988 views | DJR |
| Niche hive mind request. on 09:58 - Sep 10 by Deano69 |
Useful that, thanks. Although if you have gone on lots of holidays, while they may still 'count' this, with no money available, I wonder what's the plan to support ones care then? |
That's a good point, and I imagine it will depend on when you first take out equity release.
If it is before you develop problems and you are fit enough to go on holiday, then I can't see they will be able to take it into account because the intention would appear to be to enjoy your last few years, rather than avoid care costs.
But if you take out equity release a few months before you need care, they might be a bit more suspicious. | | | |
| Niche hive mind request. on 11:44 - Sep 10 with 1909 views | Basuco |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:29 - Sep 10 by bluelagos |
Sounds a nightmare.
One thing (for all of us middle aged townies) is to sort out a Power of Attorney before you need it. The forms take months to be processed.
We did them for my Dad and I got the power of attorney a day before he passed away, sod all use then.
The doctors were actually very good in taking our views into account ref treatment but legally we would have no input if there had been conflicting wishes. |
I did health and welfare for my Mum and it only took a few days, this was 2019 ish, Mum had set up the financial side but not health, which is equally important to set up at the same time. |  | | |
| Niche hive mind request. on 11:54 - Sep 10 with 1885 views | BloomBlue |
Yes if it's basically in a permanent position, ie like a caravan. If it's a motorhome / camper van, and they're 2 weeks here, and 2 weeks there, then no.
The best way to avoid paying for care is to spend it all a few years before you actually need it.
When my mate Gordon (RIP) was in a care home, he had been stupid enough to save money during his life, meaning it was costing him £50k a year.
The lovely lady in the room opposite told him he was a fool. She said her husband had always said, spend it all and only put the smallest amount in the bank. She said the companies he had worked for paid him in cash, but he did pay tax on it, but it was always in cash. He would only put into the bank the minimal amount to pay any bills. Showed Gordon lots of photos of her many holidays, including a wonderful 4 week cruise her and hubby had around the Caribbean to celebrate a special anniversary, it had apparently cost them nearly £14k - he had paid the travel agent in cash. Hubby had died a couple of years earlier, left nothing, so she had no money for the care home. She wasn't paying anything for the care home, social care were picking up the £50k. Silly Gordon, he should have spent, not saved |  | | |
| Niche hive mind request. on 12:43 - Sep 10 with 1808 views | BlueBadger |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:29 - Sep 10 by bluelagos |
Sounds a nightmare.
One thing (for all of us middle aged townies) is to sort out a Power of Attorney before you need it. The forms take months to be processed.
We did them for my Dad and I got the power of attorney a day before he passed away, sod all use then.
The doctors were actually very good in taking our views into account ref treatment but legally we would have no input if there had been conflicting wishes. |
LPOA is an essential document after 60 in my mind. So many people and their families suffer unnecessary and avoidable distress due to not having this set up. |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 17:02 - Sep 10 with 1611 views | Deano69 |
| Niche hive mind request. on 11:54 - Sep 10 by BloomBlue |
Yes if it's basically in a permanent position, ie like a caravan. If it's a motorhome / camper van, and they're 2 weeks here, and 2 weeks there, then no.
The best way to avoid paying for care is to spend it all a few years before you actually need it.
When my mate Gordon (RIP) was in a care home, he had been stupid enough to save money during his life, meaning it was costing him £50k a year.
The lovely lady in the room opposite told him he was a fool. She said her husband had always said, spend it all and only put the smallest amount in the bank. She said the companies he had worked for paid him in cash, but he did pay tax on it, but it was always in cash. He would only put into the bank the minimal amount to pay any bills. Showed Gordon lots of photos of her many holidays, including a wonderful 4 week cruise her and hubby had around the Caribbean to celebrate a special anniversary, it had apparently cost them nearly £14k - he had paid the travel agent in cash. Hubby had died a couple of years earlier, left nothing, so she had no money for the care home. She wasn't paying anything for the care home, social care were picking up the £50k. Silly Gordon, he should have spent, not saved |
That's brilliant, love it. May the last cheque I write before croaking it, bounce!
Interesting that we are all told to work hard, save for our retirement, encouraged to buy our homes, build up pensions, yet it will all get taken off us for our 'care'. And someone never worked a day in their lives or spend every penny they earned enjoying life, will still get the same care... I wonder who is getting it wrong? | |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 19:10 - Sep 10 with 1505 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Niche hive mind request. on 17:02 - Sep 10 by Deano69 |
That's brilliant, love it. May the last cheque I write before croaking it, bounce!
Interesting that we are all told to work hard, save for our retirement, encouraged to buy our homes, build up pensions, yet it will all get taken off us for our 'care'. And someone never worked a day in their lives or spend every penny they earned enjoying life, will still get the same care... I wonder who is getting it wrong? |
Just imagine what fun it will be when institutions own all the property and we have to pay them extortionate rents. It's almost like they must have had it all mapped out!! | |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 19:42 - Sep 10 with 1450 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:15 - Sep 10 by BanksterDebtSlave |
She (86) had not granted 'lasting power of attorney' as she has no biological family so the matter is now in the hands of social services. |
Fk. Not a good position to be in. From my experience of having social services/ council handle lasting power of attorney, they are crooks*. They’ll use a ‘friendly’ solicitor and hugely inflated costs will disappear out of the account. If there’s any way to check what they’re up to, they need checking. It was a nightmare as a biological relative, so I’ve no idea how you’d go about such a thing when not related.
Not much help, sorry. I’d strongly recommend everyone sorts out lasting power of attorney though. We’re doing ours now even though we’re miles off needing it (hopefully !). Granted, it must be difficult for someone with no family. |  |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 19:50 - Sep 10 with 1415 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Niche hive mind request. on 19:42 - Sep 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Fk. Not a good position to be in. From my experience of having social services/ council handle lasting power of attorney, they are crooks*. They’ll use a ‘friendly’ solicitor and hugely inflated costs will disappear out of the account. If there’s any way to check what they’re up to, they need checking. It was a nightmare as a biological relative, so I’ve no idea how you’d go about such a thing when not related.
Not much help, sorry. I’d strongly recommend everyone sorts out lasting power of attorney though. We’re doing ours now even though we’re miles off needing it (hopefully !). Granted, it must be difficult for someone with no family. |
Oh!! Not good then. | |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 20:47 - Sep 10 with 1354 views | Swansea_Blue |
It might be fine and we were unlucky (fingers crossed!) | |
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| Niche hive mind request. on 15:36 - Sep 11 with 1145 views | DJR |
| Niche hive mind request. on 08:29 - Sep 10 by bluelagos |
Sounds a nightmare.
One thing (for all of us middle aged townies) is to sort out a Power of Attorney before you need it. The forms take months to be processed.
We did them for my Dad and I got the power of attorney a day before he passed away, sod all use then.
The doctors were actually very good in taking our views into account ref treatment but legally we would have no input if there had been conflicting wishes. |
It is the power of attorney that covers property and financial affairs that is really needed.
The old enduring power of attorney only dealt with such issues, and did not concern health issues, but I found this wasn't an issue because doctors will take wishes into account, and ultimately have the last say.
As regards conflicts on health, this could equally happen if you have more than one attorney, so if you want total control on health make yourself the sole attorney. [Post edited 11 Sep 2024 15:37]
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