| Chaplin 11:16 - Apr 20 with 1468 views | darkhorse28 |
Not suggesting he should still be here, he shouldn’t, but watched him at the weekend, encouraging others. His pressing, his work ethic, and remembered what our success was built on …, the press, the energy, running his socks off for 90 minutes, and triggering every press, and getting the ball back in key areas, with burns good at that too. And even Hutchinson could press.
Nunez can’t press as well, not as quick, not as instinctive and can only do it in spells. Philogene, Clarke don’t and can’t do it constantly. And Akpom doesn’t do it at all. Azon too wants to drop deep and be linking play. He’s often too far away to press. It’s a real weakness that we don’t seem to have known our success was built on, and or haven’t been able to identify the traits required for our system.
We signed a hell of a lot of quality, and seemed to just want to try and make it fit a system McKenna believes in completely. Strange when the pieces are so different to what came before.
Not sure where the issues are obviously, but we’ve made a mess of replacing those qualities.
We were SO good at this level at winning ball high up the pitch, and doing it for 60 minutes, then fresh legs for another 30…, we just don’t have those qualities in the team now, not a motivation issue, they just aren’t as good at that part of the game, better, far better in other areas, but our system and style seemed geared around those traits, and Hirst playing high up on the shoulder too, to capitalise.
Makes me wonder if we should have abandoned the press (too late at this stage) and gone with a 3 in midfield.
I’d drool to see a 3 of Mehmeti on the left, Azor and Nunez in the 8 (think he seems better deep, with more time, like recently when chasing games and he drops deeper, good on the ball, and more time, but needs extra cover defensively. And that would leave Taylor and Jens available for those 8 roles too, where they could add more value in forward areas and be more free.
We lose a 10. We probably have to accept we don’t press as much in the opposition half - but just think it would have suited the squad we have.
The extra midfielder would allow Leif to unleash his inner O’Reilly more, especially at home and be an extra wide left player doubling up - AND we could play Philogene and Clarke in the wide roles with less defensive duties. We would have to play Hirst though, we need a threat in behind, away from home especially, and his work rate would be essential.
It would allow us to get our best players on the pitch, more in their natural positions. Doing what we did before, with players that don’t have the attributes, even if we go up, it’s not been a success in terms of performances. We keep repeating the same things and expecting it to click.., but Nunez Akpom, Clarke, Philogene they’re never pressing anyone for even 60 minutes. They don’t know how to like Burns and Chaplin. They had those qualities and traits and I’m sure coaching helped, but they are both naturals at that part of the game. They loved it!!
I miss Chaplin. Everything he stands for. The press, the work, saw him clapping and supporting teammates and he’s clearly a GREAT professional. His enthusiasm for the game. It’s infectious, it improves those around him, like Burns and Sam did too.., those attributes needed to be front and centre, quality is great, it’s essential, but so are those qualities, especially in this division.
We’ve moved on. But the need for those traits if you want to be successful. That never changes.
I miss our press. We were v good at it for two seasons.
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| Chaplin on 11:22 - Apr 20 with 1401 views | Libero |
There were times VS Boro that our press was EXCEPTIONAL.
Multiple times it forced them into errors that resulted in chances! |  | | |
| Chaplin on 11:36 - Apr 20 with 1315 views | bsw72 |
We forced Boro into a couple of monumental errors at the back through our pressing yesterday, at least one of which should have resulted in a goal. We do so in most games.
We used to win the ball higher up the pitch because teams played a different way against us - everything has changed since then, our personel, opposition tactics and the ability for teams to play out from the back.
23-24 and 24-25 saw teams failing more under pressure of a high press, this has reduced this season across most games I have seen, either live or on TV.
We are a fine example of a team who has got better at playing out from the back under high pressure, even as this season has progressed. |  | | |
| Chaplin on 11:43 - Apr 20 with 1234 views | longtimefan |
More nonsense. Our press is far more effective when Nunez is in the 10, he doesn't stop running and covers a massive amount of ground. There's always a drop off in that respect once Mehmeti replaces him. | | | |
| Chaplin on 11:44 - Apr 20 with 1235 views | gmanrom |
I'm gonna put this out there. I believe we have recruited with the prem in mind and understanding that press is never going to work in that league, and how we've played this season, a lot more pragmatic than we ever was, and I believe it is all geared towards the prem. Just my thinking anyway. |  |
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| Chaplin on 12:17 - Apr 20 with 1026 views | _CliveBaker_ |
I can't agree with that. McAteer and Burns are excellent out of possession, as are Clarke and Philogene on the other side. Nunez presses well too, I think its an area of our game that's improved as the season has gone on, and by and large we've done well against sides that try to play against us.
Our downfall so far hasn't really been our ease to play through or inability to win the ball high up the pitch, its generally been the opposite when we've face a low block and sides with no appetite whatsoever to attempt to play through us. 1 win away to the current bottom 9 and that was Sheffield Wednesday which doesn't really count. Admittedly 2 of them to come in the next week to improve that position slightly.
We've got the 2nd best ppg in the division, 2nd best GA column (only 1 worse than Cov) and 3rd best goals for (only 2 fewer than Saints in 2nd but with a game in hand). This narrative that we're not one of the best 2 or 3 sides this season is something I can't really get behind at all when you look at the underlying metrics.
We're a strong side, I think the reason we're not a little stronger is nuanced and in part that we've been a bit short in certain areas. We've spent £40m on the right hand side in the past 20 months on Ogbene, Egeli and McAteer, the latter is just starting to show value, Egeli is certainly young and one for the future but has by and large been a bit of a passenger, and Ogbene was unlucky with his injury and now out on loan. Akpom hasn't done anywhere near enough, neither has Cajuste, Neil hasn't either since his arrival and our best 2 attacking players want the same shirt and we can't get them on the pitch together. We've spent £14m on goalkeepers and Walton is still number 1, and we're rumoured to be spending big wages elsewhere with little return.
Recruitment has been messy, and 2 or 3 big tickets really haven't given us enough value. In hindsight would I keep Chaplin and not sign Akpom? Almost certainly, he can't really have contributed any less, but we're not a fundamentally broken side.
We need a win on Wednesday to kick start us. Beat Charlton and then win one of the next 2 to take it to the final day in our hands. Its tougher than it looked a week ago, but its there for us. |  | | |
| Chaplin on 12:40 - Apr 20 with 954 views | SaleAway |
We top the league for goals (11) and shots(63) from high turnovers. I don't think you can claim that we have lost our press. We do it a bit more carefully now, that is all. We don't always press ( we're about mid table in pressing actions), but when we do, we are really good at it.... | |
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| Chaplin on 14:38 - Apr 20 with 698 views | darkhorse28 |
| Chaplin on 11:22 - Apr 20 by Libero |
There were times VS Boro that our press was EXCEPTIONAL.
Multiple times it forced them into errors that resulted in chances! |
It was v v good for 30 minutes. But that’s the point. We can’t sustain it, and that’s the best I’ve seen it all season, on game 44.
Not seen us do it eve at home on a sustained basis, I could be wrong, just feel like that used to be the norm, not the exception. | | | |
| Chaplin on 14:42 - Apr 20 with 678 views | darkhorse28 |
| Chaplin on 11:43 - Apr 20 by longtimefan |
More nonsense. Our press is far more effective when Nunez is in the 10, he doesn't stop running and covers a massive amount of ground. There's always a drop off in that respect once Mehmeti replaces him. |
I didn’t mention Mehmeti in the 10, pressing, for a reason, I totally agree with you.
What about the point though. His pressing V’s Chaplin?? Who’s better?
And is Nunez better on the ball than Mehmeti, just my opinion, but Nunez to me is a comprise of both in the 10. | | | |
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| Chaplin on 14:44 - Apr 20 with 668 views | Lanky |
Why shouldn't he still be here? He was exceptional in our system. Think of all of the games before we stumbled across Nunez in the 10 - Chaplin was and still would be superior to Akpom/Szmodics in that position. Frankly also, since injury, I think Chaplin would have performed well in the 10 also. Sub appearances... I am really confident we'd have a few more points on the board if we'd have kept Chaplin at the club. And that might be the difference between automatic promotion or not. |  | | |
| Chaplin on 14:45 - Apr 20 with 666 views | darkhorse28 |
| Chaplin on 11:44 - Apr 20 by gmanrom |
I'm gonna put this out there. I believe we have recruited with the prem in mind and understanding that press is never going to work in that league, and how we've played this season, a lot more pragmatic than we ever was, and I believe it is all geared towards the prem. Just my thinking anyway. |
Totally looks that way. Not sure if by design though, as it might not get you out of this league.
But we couldn’t press last year, and we’ve continued that this season, so yeah, it’s certainly true we’d have the press played though more a level above. Will be interesting if we do go up. If we don’t go up, we’ll need to press and keep the ball better in this league. | | | |
| Chaplin on 14:51 - Apr 20 with 632 views | darkhorse28 |
| Chaplin on 12:17 - Apr 20 by _CliveBaker_ |
I can't agree with that. McAteer and Burns are excellent out of possession, as are Clarke and Philogene on the other side. Nunez presses well too, I think its an area of our game that's improved as the season has gone on, and by and large we've done well against sides that try to play against us.
Our downfall so far hasn't really been our ease to play through or inability to win the ball high up the pitch, its generally been the opposite when we've face a low block and sides with no appetite whatsoever to attempt to play through us. 1 win away to the current bottom 9 and that was Sheffield Wednesday which doesn't really count. Admittedly 2 of them to come in the next week to improve that position slightly.
We've got the 2nd best ppg in the division, 2nd best GA column (only 1 worse than Cov) and 3rd best goals for (only 2 fewer than Saints in 2nd but with a game in hand). This narrative that we're not one of the best 2 or 3 sides this season is something I can't really get behind at all when you look at the underlying metrics.
We're a strong side, I think the reason we're not a little stronger is nuanced and in part that we've been a bit short in certain areas. We've spent £40m on the right hand side in the past 20 months on Ogbene, Egeli and McAteer, the latter is just starting to show value, Egeli is certainly young and one for the future but has by and large been a bit of a passenger, and Ogbene was unlucky with his injury and now out on loan. Akpom hasn't done anywhere near enough, neither has Cajuste, Neil hasn't either since his arrival and our best 2 attacking players want the same shirt and we can't get them on the pitch together. We've spent £14m on goalkeepers and Walton is still number 1, and we're rumoured to be spending big wages elsewhere with little return.
Recruitment has been messy, and 2 or 3 big tickets really haven't given us enough value. In hindsight would I keep Chaplin and not sign Akpom? Almost certainly, he can't really have contributed any less, but we're not a fundamentally broken side.
We need a win on Wednesday to kick start us. Beat Charlton and then win one of the next 2 to take it to the final day in our hands. Its tougher than it looked a week ago, but its there for us. |
Hmm we absolutely aren’t broken. We just aren’t the sum of the karts or close.
Teams regularly get automatic and 100 points with these resources. Often with less.
Way below optimal, but yeah, far from broken.
Scott Parker ‘completed it’ at this level, and he’s not at the level above, and that’s the issue, even though we are measurably a very good side, in terms of results, everyone can see we don’t even get close to the required standard at this level or the one above for resources available.
Akpom being a great example. Player of the season, and Greaves, Clarke, Philogene, O’Shea all team of the season, and Walle the most expensive player to ever kick a ball at this level.
We can be very very good, and way below where the sum of the karts should be, both those things can be true.
Will be an interesting summer either way. We could do with a season without change, but get a feeling we’ll see the opposite of that. Either way. | | | |
| Chaplin on 14:58 - Apr 20 with 587 views | darkhorse28 |
| Chaplin on 12:40 - Apr 20 by SaleAway |
We top the league for goals (11) and shots(63) from high turnovers. I don't think you can claim that we have lost our press. We do it a bit more carefully now, that is all. We don't always press ( we're about mid table in pressing actions), but when we do, we are really good at it.... |
I don’t think we are. And our completed passes and tackling stats I think are 22nd for is it more than …, I like the eye ball test, stats don’t give a full picture we certainly don’t press as high, we go sometimes in ones and twos and we drop off a lot more then we used to .., my eyes aren’t the best tbf, but it’s what see. | | | |
| Chaplin on 15:03 - Apr 20 with 565 views | gmanrom |
| Chaplin on 14:51 - Apr 20 by darkhorse28 |
Hmm we absolutely aren’t broken. We just aren’t the sum of the karts or close.
Teams regularly get automatic and 100 points with these resources. Often with less.
Way below optimal, but yeah, far from broken.
Scott Parker ‘completed it’ at this level, and he’s not at the level above, and that’s the issue, even though we are measurably a very good side, in terms of results, everyone can see we don’t even get close to the required standard at this level or the one above for resources available.
Akpom being a great example. Player of the season, and Greaves, Clarke, Philogene, O’Shea all team of the season, and Walle the most expensive player to ever kick a ball at this level.
We can be very very good, and way below where the sum of the karts should be, both those things can be true.
Will be an interesting summer either way. We could do with a season without change, but get a feeling we’ll see the opposite of that. Either way. |
We will need change, 9 no matter what league we're in, if we go up we are going to need another cm, cf, we're gonna need another 10. I think we need a cb with strong experience in the prem. | |
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| Chaplin on 15:05 - Apr 20 with 559 views | darkhorse28 |
| Chaplin on 14:44 - Apr 20 by Lanky |
Why shouldn't he still be here? He was exceptional in our system. Think of all of the games before we stumbled across Nunez in the 10 - Chaplin was and still would be superior to Akpom/Szmodics in that position. Frankly also, since injury, I think Chaplin would have performed well in the 10 also. Sub appearances... I am really confident we'd have a few more points on the board if we'd have kept Chaplin at the club. And that might be the difference between automatic promotion or not. |
It’s REALLY hard to argue with any of that. I think you’re right.
I guess what I meant was I can understand quality wise. With the resources, why we made the decisions we did.
He’s actually a fantastic finisher in teams that create…, and in terms of quality.., I always thought he’d be short, but then sometimes he’d drop deep, not even look up, and PING a 30 yard ball to Burns’ big toe.
Hard to argue we’d be better with his energy and finishing in the 10 even now…, I’m not sure we’ll see it again.., and I’ll be fascinated to see where he go’s and how he does.
So of his traits.., in that 10.., buzzing around .., one game - I forget which - could be one of very many I remeber we nicked a result.., and he ran his blood to water the entire 95!!! Covered every blade.., got us the result with sheer desire to run though walls.
We miss that.
Wonder if it’s a where he came from thing, the lower leagues, he really appreciated being at that level, loved every second.
Some of our ‘quality’ higher paid players, maybe they have less gratitude, they certainly seem to want it a little less at times .., Akpom an obvious example, slightly under to single him out, as there’s a few.
They should pin a pic of Chaplin on the dressing room wall!!
What a winner looks like - through sheer bloody desire and will!
Maybe he does stay next season, who knows, it’s a funny old game | | | |
| Chaplin on 16:34 - Apr 21 with 266 views | Libero |
| Chaplin on 14:38 - Apr 20 by darkhorse28 |
It was v v good for 30 minutes. But that’s the point. We can’t sustain it, and that’s the best I’ve seen it all season, on game 44.
Not seen us do it eve at home on a sustained basis, I could be wrong, just feel like that used to be the norm, not the exception. |
Nonsense. | | | |
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