| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake 18:34 - Jun 16 with 27866 views | imsureazzure |
on the date for the first riot?
16th or 17th of June for me. |  | | |  |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:18 - Jun 16 with 5007 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 20:59 - Jun 16 by StokieBlue |
It's completely wrong to house them there. If you do that then why stop there? Seize all empty homes, disregard rights and house people there.
It's an awful situation and I want the people housed somewhere as soon as possible but we can't bypass the generally accepted ownership laws.
What should happen is that said investors should step forward and offer their homes for nothing or a token fee from the council or a donation to charity but we all know that won't happen which is sad.
I think the end result is that we need to look at property purchases at the point-of-sale. They shouldn't be sold to people who don't intend to use them and if they are empty for a period of time without a good reason (illness or suchlike) then massive fines should be levied (perhaps the stamp duty amount to be paid every year if they are empty).
SB |
The global elites and investment funds need somewhere to park their QE money though, poor things, as well as putting all our prices up through speculating on commodities with the same money tree cash. This tragedy is bringing bigger issues to the surface and it's the same old story as ever. |  |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:21 - Jun 16 with 4999 views | xrayspecs |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 21:58 - Jun 16 by StokieBlue |
I don't disagree at all.
I would think this is outside the Mayor remit - it should be a national body.
SB |
Not sure it is a national project to manage. Yes, government should help, it should though be led locally. |  | | |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:22 - Jun 16 with 4993 views | StokieBlue |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:18 - Jun 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The global elites and investment funds need somewhere to park their QE money though, poor things, as well as putting all our prices up through speculating on commodities with the same money tree cash. This tragedy is bringing bigger issues to the surface and it's the same old story as ever. |
That's a massive generalisation. You know nothing about the properties in question, the circumstances or the specifics. I could give you specifics on at least one case but I doubt you would care. In that case if they were asked rather than "requisitioned" I am sure they would say yes (not within that borough admittedly).
Shame really, you've made some really good posts over the last two weeks but now you've just reverted to norm.
SB
Edit: Didn't mean to down-vote you - sorry. [Post edited 16 Jun 2017 22:23]
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:23 - Jun 16 with 4990 views | vapour_trail |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:21 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
Not sure it is a national project to manage. Yes, government should help, it should though be led locally. |
When the local response isn't up to scratch, there needs to be a second line of defence. |  |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:26 - Jun 16 with 4973 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:05 - Jun 16 by Ftnfwest |
Maybe even just ask rather than requisition |
Especially if, as I suspect, many are owned by institutional investment funds purely as a means of storing wealth! | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:29 - Jun 16 with 4970 views | xrayspecs |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:23 - Jun 16 by vapour_trail |
When the local response isn't up to scratch, there needs to be a second line of defence. |
Responsibility for government has been devolved over the last 10+ years from Westminster to national government and to the regions. We have mayors for London and a number of other cities, the northern power house etc. Subsidiarity has been the game for a long time. It does though mean that these organisations need to manage local issues, a fire in West London is a local issue, however heartbreaking it is.
They have the powers, the resources and now need to step up and deliver. | | | |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:30 - Jun 16 with 4965 views | StokieBlue |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:29 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
Responsibility for government has been devolved over the last 10+ years from Westminster to national government and to the regions. We have mayors for London and a number of other cities, the northern power house etc. Subsidiarity has been the game for a long time. It does though mean that these organisations need to manage local issues, a fire in West London is a local issue, however heartbreaking it is.
They have the powers, the resources and now need to step up and deliver. |
I'm not convinced they do have the resources. Evidence thus far would show the resources seem to be at national rather than devolved level.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:31 - Jun 16 with 4959 views | vapour_trail |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:29 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
Responsibility for government has been devolved over the last 10+ years from Westminster to national government and to the regions. We have mayors for London and a number of other cities, the northern power house etc. Subsidiarity has been the game for a long time. It does though mean that these organisations need to manage local issues, a fire in West London is a local issue, however heartbreaking it is.
They have the powers, the resources and now need to step up and deliver. |
That's theory. The reality is that people need assistance and are not receiving it. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:32 - Jun 16 with 4959 views | xrayspecs |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:30 - Jun 16 by StokieBlue |
I'm not convinced they do have the resources. Evidence thus far would show the resources seem to be at national rather than devolved level.
SB |
They were given the resources, what they spent them on is a different question. | | | |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:33 - Jun 16 with 4948 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:22 - Jun 16 by StokieBlue |
That's a massive generalisation. You know nothing about the properties in question, the circumstances or the specifics. I could give you specifics on at least one case but I doubt you would care. In that case if they were asked rather than "requisitioned" I am sure they would say yes (not within that borough admittedly).
Shame really, you've made some really good posts over the last two weeks but now you've just reverted to norm.
SB
Edit: Didn't mean to down-vote you - sorry. [Post edited 16 Jun 2017 22:23]
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It would be interesting to see the details of ownership but I don't suppose we will. Chinese money has been inflating property prices around the world though from Sydney to Toronto. I imagine pension funds are joining in the party too.
The comments of people on the ground confirm that they are linking this disaster to austerity hence my suggestion that bigger issues are at play. The divide between rich and poor has also been a recurring theme .
Edit...even the bbc admitted the link between QE money, commodity prices and recent inflation this week !I see Lowhouse has given me a reflex down vote (boo hoo) [Post edited 16 Jun 2017 22:36]
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:37 - Jun 16 with 4929 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 18:44 - Jun 16 by vapour_trail |
Well of course not. But it would hardly be surprising to see civil unrest after recent events. |
Did you hear the interview on R4 this afternoon with the ex-head of government disaster response unit? I think it was on just before 5.30. He basically outlined what should have been happening and was quite critical of the local council, central government and May. The accepted view is that slow response and poor engagement allows worry, frustration and then anger to flourish and can easily turn into volatile situations. All avoidable though with correct response. |  |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:37 - Jun 16 with 4926 views | StokieBlue |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:33 - Jun 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It would be interesting to see the details of ownership but I don't suppose we will. Chinese money has been inflating property prices around the world though from Sydney to Toronto. I imagine pension funds are joining in the party too.
The comments of people on the ground confirm that they are linking this disaster to austerity hence my suggestion that bigger issues are at play. The divide between rich and poor has also been a recurring theme .
Edit...even the bbc admitted the link between QE money, commodity prices and recent inflation this week !I see Lowhouse has given me a reflex down vote (boo hoo) [Post edited 16 Jun 2017 22:36]
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Some people have families and may need to spend different parts of the year in different locations. It doesn't make them bad people or horrible multinationals.
They haven't spent your QE money expanding their empires.
As I said, ask, don't requisition - I am sure there are plenty of decent people who would say yes, probably yes and no charge.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:38 - Jun 16 with 4925 views | xrayspecs |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:32 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
They were given the resources, what they spent them on is a different question. |
Despite claims of austerity, total government expenditure has increased year on year since before the 2005 financial crisis.
Osborn did not cut total spending in any year he was Chancellor, and neither has Hammond.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1999_2020UKb_17c1li111mcn_F0t
The issue is that it has not kept up with our rising expectations. JC is fuelling these further. The question then remains how do you raise the revenue to pay for this? | | | |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:42 - Jun 16 with 4905 views | vapour_trail |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:38 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
Despite claims of austerity, total government expenditure has increased year on year since before the 2005 financial crisis.
Osborn did not cut total spending in any year he was Chancellor, and neither has Hammond.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1999_2020UKb_17c1li111mcn_F0t
The issue is that it has not kept up with our rising expectations. JC is fuelling these further. The question then remains how do you raise the revenue to pay for this? |
Claims of austerity?
Good heavens. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:44 - Jun 16 with 4890 views | lowhouseblue |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:33 - Jun 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It would be interesting to see the details of ownership but I don't suppose we will. Chinese money has been inflating property prices around the world though from Sydney to Toronto. I imagine pension funds are joining in the party too.
The comments of people on the ground confirm that they are linking this disaster to austerity hence my suggestion that bigger issues are at play. The divide between rich and poor has also been a recurring theme .
Edit...even the bbc admitted the link between QE money, commodity prices and recent inflation this week !I see Lowhouse has given me a reflex down vote (boo hoo) [Post edited 16 Jun 2017 22:36]
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the down arrow is for imposing a crass political world view on a human tragedy affecting real people. you are the guy who turns up at the back of a crowd of grieving relatives with an swp placard. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:44 - Jun 16 with 4891 views | blue_oyster |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:38 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
Despite claims of austerity, total government expenditure has increased year on year since before the 2005 financial crisis.
Osborn did not cut total spending in any year he was Chancellor, and neither has Hammond.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1999_2020UKb_17c1li111mcn_F0t
The issue is that it has not kept up with our rising expectations. JC is fuelling these further. The question then remains how do you raise the revenue to pay for this? |
People don't like facts on here. They just like watching the Shawshank Redemption. |  |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:45 - Jun 16 with 4878 views | xrayspecs |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:42 - Jun 16 by vapour_trail |
Claims of austerity?
Good heavens. |
?
Maybe I am wrong, but I do pick up a narrative that people are fed up of austerity. Yet government spending increases year on year and despite the rhetoric from tory governments.
The issue we may have is that our expectations are rising faster than our ability to pay for them? | | | |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:47 - Jun 16 with 4871 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:37 - Jun 16 by StokieBlue |
Some people have families and may need to spend different parts of the year in different locations. It doesn't make them bad people or horrible multinationals.
They haven't spent your QE money expanding their empires.
As I said, ask, don't requisition - I am sure there are plenty of decent people who would say yes, probably yes and no charge.
SB |
I don't disagree that a proportion of empty properties will be owned by individuals as you describe. I don't remember saying that all empty properties have been bought with money tree QE money but a lot have. People like those you refer to will have had to pay more because of it so should be equally offended. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:47 - Jun 16 with 4866 views | Plums |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 21:56 - Jun 16 by vapour_trail |
Of course you won't cover all bases. But any council should have a plan for a mass of people suddenly homeless. It'll be on the strategic risk register for every single one of them, with a variety of potential causes.
They have failed their residents. Someone should intervene already. I don't know whether that's the mayors office or the home office. |
They will have a plan. But without checking, they will have employed an emergency planning officer on a low salary and with next to no influence to develop it. The Civil Contingencies Act was a bold step but has never been properly implemented or enforced.
We have always been about 30 years behind the USA in terms of community resilience and we certainly have nothing like the Federal Emergency Management Agency to mobilise big resources. |  |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:48 - Jun 16 with 4865 views | vapour_trail |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:45 - Jun 16 by xrayspecs |
?
Maybe I am wrong, but I do pick up a narrative that people are fed up of austerity. Yet government spending increases year on year and despite the rhetoric from tory governments.
The issue we may have is that our expectations are rising faster than our ability to pay for them? |
You need to consider where austerity has been focused.
I'm not sure how this has become the theme here in any case. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:48 - Jun 16 with 4858 views | vapour_trail |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:44 - Jun 16 by blue_oyster |
People don't like facts on here. They just like watching the Shawshank Redemption. |
Pointless. As usual. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:49 - Jun 16 with 4859 views | xrayspecs |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:44 - Jun 16 by blue_oyster |
People don't like facts on here. They just like watching the Shawshank Redemption. |
May be it is a generational thing but my sense is that today everyone feels they are entitled to the moon on a plate, whatever the cost, and in some cases despite their lack of economic contribution.
Simple economics - this is not possible.
I do though accept that over recent decades the concentration of wealth has become more extreme and needs addressing.
Socialism (in its traditional form) is not the answer... | | | |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:51 - Jun 16 with 4842 views | vapour_trail |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:47 - Jun 16 by Plums |
They will have a plan. But without checking, they will have employed an emergency planning officer on a low salary and with next to no influence to develop it. The Civil Contingencies Act was a bold step but has never been properly implemented or enforced.
We have always been about 30 years behind the USA in terms of community resilience and we certainly have nothing like the Federal Emergency Management Agency to mobilise big resources. |
I'd be genuinely surprised if responsibility for crisis management doesn't sit right at the top table. It has anywhere I have worked. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:52 - Jun 16 with 4835 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
In relation to the op I seriously hope rioting doesn't result as it will give an easy get out card for the politicians and will likely be instigated by those at the fringes of this tragedy or with no connection at all. How to keep the pressure high and public though is the real problem as the world will move on.......it's what public enquiries are for, to kick real issues into the long grass. | |
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| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:52 - Jun 16 with 4832 views | blue_oyster |
| Wasn't someone running a sweepstake on 22:48 - Jun 16 by vapour_trail |
Pointless. As usual. |
A lot of people forget the fact that he was guilty. | |
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