| Messi 07:39 - Oct 11 with 19466 views | chicoazul |
No arguments now surely? The GOAT. A genius. |  |
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| Messi on 09:39 - Oct 11 with 4964 views | itfcjoe |
| Messi on 08:58 - Oct 11 by JakeITFC |
Don't disagree with your Ecuador point.
Think it's one of those you just see with your eyes rather than looking at stats. |
Ronaldo is the modern football prototype with pace and unbelievable power, Messi is a little genius.
Both unbelieavble players, clearly, but I'd rather watch Messi - and it's ridiculous that I haven't.
I'm hoping Man City draw Barca in CL, as would like to see Pep's team vs them and Messi in full flow and will make an effort to go |  |
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| Messi on 09:47 - Oct 11 with 4951 views | Stenvict |
| Messi on 09:00 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
I was going to respond to each or your points but they're all just nonsense so I can't be arsed. |
Have you seen the Portuguese National Team? It really is shocking. The only other decent player is Berni Silva.
Look at Argentina's; Aguero, Di Maria, Dybala, Otamendi, Icardi, Mascherano.
Ronaldo has single handedly taken Portugal to numerous Championships. If it wasn't for him, I doubt Portugal would have done anything significant in recent years. |  |
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| Messi on 09:55 - Oct 11 with 4934 views | Simonds92 |
| Messi on 08:57 - Oct 11 by HarryWright |
But the OP called messi the GOAT for scoring a hattrick against a terrible team - Ronaldo done the same thing four years ago against a much better team.
People's dislike of Ronaldo cloud their judgement on him, the OP is an example of both of them doing the same thing but somehow Messi's is seen as better? Consider the fact Messi has a much better team around him also. |
I think this is spot on. The fact that people just discredit Ronaldo because they don't like him annoys me. Statistically very closely matched and Ronaldo has reached goal milestones quicker than anyone else in la liga history. He also single handed my kept Portugal in the Euros last year in the group stages which they obviously won. People may prefer Messi but it's ignorant to dismiss Ronaldo. | | | |
| Messi on 09:55 - Oct 11 with 4935 views | itfcbw |
How can he be the greatest of all time when he's not even currently the best in the world, in the eyes of the Ballon D'or and Fifa player of the year?
No international success despite, in my opinion, playing with much better players. He won the copa del rey last season whilst Ronaldo won La Liga and the Champions League on the back of a summer winning the euros with Portugal.
I do love this debate and the passion it brings out in people, ultimately you can't deny both will be a huge loss to the game. Messi for his sheer talent with the ball at his feet and Ronaldo purely for the work he's put in to become the athlete he is today to make himself unstoppable. |  | | |
| Messi on 10:09 - Oct 11 with 4906 views | caught-in-limbo |
The official argument for some time has been something like this:
a) it's difficult to compare the two players, they both play for incredible club teams which effectively makes life easy for them. But we still acknowledge that they're great players.
b) how they perform on the biggest stage should determine who is the greatest. And as Argentina are better than Portugal, but Ronaldo has achieved more with Portugal than Messi has with Argentina - the winner therefore is Ronaldo - just.
The fact that Messi was a whisker away from retiring from international football after failing again to win the Copa America seems to be almost forgotten. If he had retired, the official "who's best" would have been settled with Ronny - just, possibly.
That he didn't retire, and that Argentina qualified for the World Cup finals by the skin of their teeth seems now to have re-established the "who's best criteria". It's Messi, because ... erm... he scored a hat trick against Ecuador?
My view is that they are significantly different players. Messi is the type of footballing genius seen only in recent years in Maradonna, Cruyff, Platini and perhaps Ian Marshall. Ronny is unrivalled when it comes to self-belief, energy and athleticism - and when he looks like he's not pulling his weight, he often comes away with a hat trick. |  |
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| Messi on 10:11 - Oct 11 with 4902 views | iamipswich |
Ronaldo Best Goalscorer
Messi Best Footballer |  |
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| Messi on 10:16 - Oct 11 with 4894 views | itfcjoe |
| Messi on 10:09 - Oct 11 by caught-in-limbo |
The official argument for some time has been something like this:
a) it's difficult to compare the two players, they both play for incredible club teams which effectively makes life easy for them. But we still acknowledge that they're great players.
b) how they perform on the biggest stage should determine who is the greatest. And as Argentina are better than Portugal, but Ronaldo has achieved more with Portugal than Messi has with Argentina - the winner therefore is Ronaldo - just.
The fact that Messi was a whisker away from retiring from international football after failing again to win the Copa America seems to be almost forgotten. If he had retired, the official "who's best" would have been settled with Ronny - just, possibly.
That he didn't retire, and that Argentina qualified for the World Cup finals by the skin of their teeth seems now to have re-established the "who's best criteria". It's Messi, because ... erm... he scored a hat trick against Ecuador?
My view is that they are significantly different players. Messi is the type of footballing genius seen only in recent years in Maradonna, Cruyff, Platini and perhaps Ian Marshall. Ronny is unrivalled when it comes to self-belief, energy and athleticism - and when he looks like he's not pulling his weight, he often comes away with a hat trick. |
If you look at the Argies record with and without Messi in qualifying it shows that maybe they aren't a particularly good team and he is carrying them
Without - 8 games 7 points
With - 10 games 21 points | |
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| Messi on 10:17 - Oct 11 with 4887 views | Herbivore |
| Messi on 09:55 - Oct 11 by Simonds92 |
I think this is spot on. The fact that people just discredit Ronaldo because they don't like him annoys me. Statistically very closely matched and Ronaldo has reached goal milestones quicker than anyone else in la liga history. He also single handed my kept Portugal in the Euros last year in the group stages which they obviously won. People may prefer Messi but it's ignorant to dismiss Ronaldo. |
Nobody is discrediting Ronaldo. His fans really are a precious bunch. He's an exceptional player and one of the best of all time, he's just not as good as Messi. |  |
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| Messi on 10:21 - Oct 11 with 4878 views | Stenvict |
| Messi on 10:17 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Nobody is discrediting Ronaldo. His fans really are a precious bunch. He's an exceptional player and one of the best of all time, he's just not as good as Messi. |
You still haven't backed up your claim. | |
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| Messi on 10:28 - Oct 11 with 4870 views | Herbivore |
| Messi on 10:21 - Oct 11 by Stenvict |
You still haven't backed up your claim. |
Which claim, that Messi is better? Just watch them play, mate. Nothing further needed than that. | |
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| Messi on 10:32 - Oct 11 with 4861 views | PJH |
| Messi on 10:28 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Which claim, that Messi is better? Just watch them play, mate. Nothing further needed than that. |
For me there are three questions and the same three answers to those questions.
1)Who would you rather have in your team?-answer Messi.
2)Who would you rather watch play?-answer Messi.
3)Who is the better player?-answer Messi. |  | | |
| Messi on 10:36 - Oct 11 with 4853 views | HarryWright |
| Messi on 10:28 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Which claim, that Messi is better? Just watch them play, mate. Nothing further needed than that. |
Saying 'he is just better' isn't really a valid point. |  | | |
| Messi on 10:38 - Oct 11 with 4847 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Messi on 10:16 - Oct 11 by itfcjoe |
If you look at the Argies record with and without Messi in qualifying it shows that maybe they aren't a particularly good team and he is carrying them
Without - 8 games 7 points
With - 10 games 21 points |
It would be interesting to see similar stats for both Messi and Ronny over the last 6-8 years in meaningful international competition.
I don't have a preference actually - as I think I made clear in my previous post. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:45 - Oct 11 with 4833 views | chicoazul |
| Messi on 08:57 - Oct 11 by HarryWright |
But the OP called messi the GOAT for scoring a hattrick against a terrible team - Ronaldo done the same thing four years ago against a much better team.
People's dislike of Ronaldo cloud their judgement on him, the OP is an example of both of them doing the same thing but somehow Messi's is seen as better? Consider the fact Messi has a much better team around him also. |
He scored a hat trick to get his team to the World Cup finals in an unbelievably high pressure game away from home. Interesting that you make the point about the team around him considering if Higuain had been able to finish that last minute chance in 2014 then Messi would be a WC winner and any debates about him being >>> Ron by many times would be moot. [Post edited 11 Oct 2017 10:45]
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| Messi on 10:51 - Oct 11 with 4825 views | itfcjoe |
| Messi on 10:38 - Oct 11 by caught-in-limbo |
It would be interesting to see similar stats for both Messi and Ronny over the last 6-8 years in meaningful international competition.
I don't have a preference actually - as I think I made clear in my previous post. |
Portugal aren't a great team either, just think there is a bit of a myth around Argentina being a quality team he just adds to.
They've both carried them to and in major tournaments - Ronnie got the win in the Euro's but Messi and Argentina have been perrenial runner ups - 3 times in Copa America and once in the WC. | |
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| Messi on 11:02 - Oct 11 with 4809 views | Stenvict |
| Messi on 10:28 - Oct 11 by Herbivore |
Which claim, that Messi is better? Just watch them play, mate. Nothing further needed than that. |
Hopefully Citeh sign Messi and we can see how Messi does in a competitive league, for once. | |
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| Messi on 11:11 - Oct 11 with 4802 views | vapour_trail |
| Messi on 11:02 - Oct 11 by Stenvict |
Hopefully Citeh sign Messi and we can see how Messi does in a competitive league, for once. |
Badabing.
We've got there in the end. Let's see how he likes it up him on a rainy Tuesday November evening in stoke. |  |
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| Messi on 11:25 - Oct 11 with 4784 views | bluewein |
| Messi on 11:11 - Oct 11 by vapour_trail |
Badabing.
We've got there in the end. Let's see how he likes it up him on a rainy Tuesday November evening in stoke. |
I'm pretty sure if Aguero, one of the best players in the world can come from La liga and constantly rip it up in the Prem, then Messi shouldn't have too much of an issue. |  |
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| Messi on 11:26 - Oct 11 with 4779 views | Stenvict |
| Messi on 11:25 - Oct 11 by bluewein |
I'm pretty sure if Aguero, one of the best players in the world can come from La liga and constantly rip it up in the Prem, then Messi shouldn't have too much of an issue. |
What, like Di Maria and Falcao did? [Post edited 11 Oct 2017 11:26]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:26 - Oct 11 with 4779 views | HarryWright |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:45 - Oct 11 by chicoazul |
He scored a hat trick to get his team to the World Cup finals in an unbelievably high pressure game away from home. Interesting that you make the point about the team around him considering if Higuain had been able to finish that last minute chance in 2014 then Messi would be a WC winner and any debates about him being >>> Ron by many times would be moot. [Post edited 11 Oct 2017 10:45]
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Don't get me wrong it's an incredible performance/achievement, I was just pointing out the fact Ronaldo did the same thing to get Portugal to the last word cup vs a better team.
I think if you look player for player in the Argentinian side vs the Portuguese side then argentina are much better. Dybala, Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria, Mascherano, Otamendi, pastore vs Nani, Quaresma, Renato sanchez, moutinho, pepe
It's quite clear that the Argentina side is better with way more world class players. | | | |
| Messi on 11:27 - Oct 11 with 4771 views | bluewein |
| Messi on 11:26 - Oct 11 by Stenvict |
What, like Di Maria and Falcao did? [Post edited 11 Oct 2017 11:26]
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Di Maria is nowhere near in the same class as those two.
He's the ultimate example of looking better surrounded by excellent players. | |
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| Messi on 11:32 - Oct 11 with 4762 views | vapour_trail |
| Messi on 11:27 - Oct 11 by bluewein |
Di Maria is nowhere near in the same class as those two.
He's the ultimate example of looking better surrounded by excellent players. |
Cant agree about di maria. Plenty of top rate players struggle in their first season when they relocate, he'd have proven his class if he'd stayed longer.
See Seba Veron was in the argie bench last night. Can't believe he's still going. He never quite did it here but he was a class act. | |
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| Messi on 11:38 - Oct 11 with 4745 views | Herbivore |
| Messi on 10:36 - Oct 11 by HarryWright |
Saying 'he is just better' isn't really a valid point. |
Of course it is. We're discussing who is better at football so pointing out that Messi is better at football is perfectly valid. | |
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