| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road 13:49 - Oct 15 with 27957 views | Swailsey |
I am.
*runs* |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:48 - Oct 15 with 4404 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:46 - Oct 15 by Swailsey |
Bit different though isn’t it, as it’s a speciality restaurant. It would be like going to KFC, a place that markets itself as chicken only, and being annoyed you can’t have a hotdog.
If a place is labelled as ‘Meat Only’, like Rio’s in town or even KFC actually, I wouldn’t feel discriminated against by going there to find there’s no veggie option. |
I've never been out for food with company and forced someone to not eat meat. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 22:49]
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:50 - Oct 15 with 4397 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:41 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Not getting into it again, and as I said before I respect the "organic" approach somewhat if someone does it, but killing animals and the meat/dairy industry is wrong full stop and to ask/promote anything less would be a disservice to myself and animals.
I think people are either open to the idea and facts and willing to adjust their diet to whatever extent, or they are not. I've never come across someone who is bothered/offended by veganism who was willing to make those changes. |
Fair enough, two closing points though:
1) Not sure how you can say it's wrong full stop when humans have been eating animals for pretty much all of human history. Whatever your beliefs on whether it is necessary or not, it's a bit arrogant to completely dismiss part of the natural human diet.
2) I think a disservice to animals is ignoring progress that can be made because you are blinded by black and white beliefs. I would argue that unless you're successful convincing a lot of people to go vegan you'd be far better educating people on the difference they can make by making different choices. I won't buy anything but organic eggs now I know about beak trimming. If everyone did that it would make a lot more different than convincing a few to go vegan.
As I said though, I do admire vegans. The planet would benefit if a lot of people gave up part of their meat consumption, no doubt. |  |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:50 - Oct 15 with 4398 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:41 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Not getting into it again, and as I said before I respect the "organic" approach somewhat if someone does it, but killing animals and the meat/dairy industry is wrong full stop and to ask/promote anything less would be a disservice to myself and animals.
I think people are either open to the idea and facts and willing to adjust their diet to whatever extent, or they are not. I've never come across someone who is bothered/offended by veganism who was willing to make those changes. |
I'm not "bothered/offended by veganism", only irriitated by those who keep counterproductively browbeating meat eaters who bother to ethically source the meat they consume.
And I demonstrably have been "willing to make those changes", as I only eat meat (on average) a couple of times a week these days (well for about the last 10 years I should think, guesstimate, have never made a formal log, ho ho). |  |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:52 - Oct 15 with 4391 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:43 - Oct 15 by Ryorry |
In other words you'd be happy with them being discriminated against, if as a minority in the group, they wanted to eat out with their vegan/vegetarian friend - whereas if the veggie/vegan friends were in the minority in the party and wanted to eat out with their meat-eating friends, they wouldn't be discriminated against? |
To be fair, meat eaters can still eat everything on the menu at a vegetarian restaurant. Vegans will only have one option most of the time at somewhere like a steakhouse. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:52 - Oct 15 with 4391 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:44 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Meat eaters are not victims. They never have been and they never will be. |
Where did I say they were victims? (I'll save you the bother - I didn't say it at all). | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:54 - Oct 15 with 4387 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:50 - Oct 15 by Ryorry |
I'm not "bothered/offended by veganism", only irriitated by those who keep counterproductively browbeating meat eaters who bother to ethically source the meat they consume.
And I demonstrably have been "willing to make those changes", as I only eat meat (on average) a couple of times a week these days (well for about the last 10 years I should think, guesstimate, have never made a formal log, ho ho). |
Why would you be so irritated that someone doesn't share the opinion that it's okay to eat meat so long as it's organic? There's no factual evidence behind it to force anyone to accept it, it's simply and opinion. If you're comfortable with it you'd accept you're happy with the choice and not be irritated by it surely? J2 and Texters have both said/done so much in this very thread. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:54 - Oct 15 with 4381 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:46 - Oct 15 by Swailsey |
Bit different though isn’t it, as it’s a speciality restaurant. It would be like going to KFC, a place that markets itself as chicken only, and being annoyed you can’t have a hotdog.
If a place is labelled as ‘Meat Only’, like Rio’s in town or even KFC actually, I wouldn’t feel discriminated against by going there to find there’s no veggie option. |
Hah, apols, missed that bit re "speciality restaurant"! | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:56 - Oct 15 with 4373 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:52 - Oct 15 by Ryorry |
Where did I say they were victims? (I'll save you the bother - I didn't say it at all). |
Discrimination, as you called it, involves a victim by its very meaning. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:58 - Oct 15 with 4358 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:54 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Why would you be so irritated that someone doesn't share the opinion that it's okay to eat meat so long as it's organic? There's no factual evidence behind it to force anyone to accept it, it's simply and opinion. If you're comfortable with it you'd accept you're happy with the choice and not be irritated by it surely? J2 and Texters have both said/done so much in this very thread. |
Well to be precise Callis, I'm simply irritated by you continuing to bang on about it when myself & J2 have accepted your position, but you continue to ignore ours as a reasonable and ethical option. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:59 - Oct 15 with 4358 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:50 - Oct 15 by J2BLUE |
Fair enough, two closing points though:
1) Not sure how you can say it's wrong full stop when humans have been eating animals for pretty much all of human history. Whatever your beliefs on whether it is necessary or not, it's a bit arrogant to completely dismiss part of the natural human diet.
2) I think a disservice to animals is ignoring progress that can be made because you are blinded by black and white beliefs. I would argue that unless you're successful convincing a lot of people to go vegan you'd be far better educating people on the difference they can make by making different choices. I won't buy anything but organic eggs now I know about beak trimming. If everyone did that it would make a lot more different than convincing a few to go vegan.
As I said though, I do admire vegans. The planet would benefit if a lot of people gave up part of their meat consumption, no doubt. |
Every time I've tried educating on here I've been met with resistance. But then I had a DM from Newcy saying he was gonna give it a go. As I said, I think you're even open to the idea or you're not no matter how the point is made. I myself struggle to sugarcoat my side of the debate because in reality it's a gruesome topic. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:00 - Oct 15 with 4348 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:56 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Discrimination, as you called it, involves a victim by its very meaning. |
I may be discriminated against in that situation, but no way would I consider myself a victim. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:01 - Oct 15 with 4347 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:59 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Every time I've tried educating on here I've been met with resistance. But then I had a DM from Newcy saying he was gonna give it a go. As I said, I think you're even open to the idea or you're not no matter how the point is made. I myself struggle to sugarcoat my side of the debate because in reality it's a gruesome topic. |
Fair point. I'm being a bit of a hypocrite to be honest as I have some views where there's no grey area either based on previous life experiences. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:01 - Oct 15 with 4347 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:58 - Oct 15 by Ryorry |
Well to be precise Callis, I'm simply irritated by you continuing to bang on about it when myself & J2 have accepted your position, but you continue to ignore ours as a reasonable and ethical option. |
I've accepted your opinion and I respect your efforts, but I'm still against killing animals so it would be a disservice to myself to claim I'm 100% happy or okay with it. I don't understand why you take such issue with it. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:02 - Oct 15 with 4334 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:00 - Oct 15 by Ryorry |
I may be discriminated against in that situation, but no way would I consider myself a victim. |
I don't think discrimination is the right word to use in that scenario then. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:05 - Oct 15 with 4325 views | gordon |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:43 - Oct 15 by Ryorry |
In other words you'd be happy with them being discriminated against, if as a minority in the group, they wanted to eat out with their vegan/vegetarian friend - whereas if the veggie/vegan friends were in the minority in the party and wanted to eat out with their meat-eating friends, they wouldn't be discriminated against? |
Not sure discrimination is relevant - if my friends want to go paint-balling, and I want to go play golf, but I agree to go paintballing with them, I'm not discriminated against at the paint-balling because I can't play golf there. I just can't do it.
Either way I've not said anything about being happy for people to be discriminated against. |  | | |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:05 - Oct 15 with 4324 views | StokieBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:01 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
I've accepted your opinion and I respect your efforts, but I'm still against killing animals so it would be a disservice to myself to claim I'm 100% happy or okay with it. I don't understand why you take such issue with it. |
Huge numbers of animals were killed during the clearing of vast swathes of the South American rainforest in order to produce soy*.
Nothing is black and white and I think this is key to most issues.
SB
*I know most soy is used to feed animals but it's also a staple of a lot of foods you likely eat. Just pointing out that nothing is black and white and some animals were likely killed to produce soy you have consumed. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:05]
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:05 - Oct 15 with 4321 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:01 - Oct 15 by J2BLUE |
Fair point. I'm being a bit of a hypocrite to be honest as I have some views where there's no grey area either based on previous life experiences. |
Never be a centralist ;)
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:07 - Oct 15 with 4308 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:01 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
I've accepted your opinion and I respect your efforts, but I'm still against killing animals so it would be a disservice to myself to claim I'm 100% happy or okay with it. I don't understand why you take such issue with it. |
There you go. I understand your position, but you don't understand ours (tho I appreciate your saying you now accept/respect our opinion/efforts). I'll leave you to work on it - perhaps bear in mind that less may well be more when trying to win people round, and that constantly banging on can prove a kind of aversion therapy (tho of course I appreciate that you didn't start this thread).
Night night, don't let the mozzies bite! | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:08 - Oct 15 with 4307 views | north_stand77 |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 20:10 - Oct 15 by factual_blue |
And yet 'ordinary' restaurants seem to have been bullied into providing a vegetarian option. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 20:10]
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Sorry Factors, but that's a pretty daft comment.
Why have they been bullied? Why should there only be meat dishes on a menu?
We live in a diverse society, full of 'individuals', our likes and dislikes are not the same and that includes our taste buds.
There are only a couple of vegetarian restaurants that I am aware of in Suffolk. There are literally hundreds of eating places that sell meat. Fortunately most of those have woken up to the fact that there are far more vegetarians/vegans now and take it seriously by catering for them too. It's their business after all.
By your reckoning my other half and I wouldn't be able to eat out in the same restaurant together, one being a vegetarian and the other a meat eater! |  | | |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:08 - Oct 15 with 4305 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:05 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue |
Huge numbers of animals were killed during the clearing of vast swathes of the South American rainforest in order to produce soy*.
Nothing is black and white and I think this is key to most issues.
SB
*I know most soy is used to feed animals but it's also a staple of a lot of foods you likely eat. Just pointing out that nothing is black and white and some animals were likely killed to produce soy you have consumed. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:05]
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I've never claimed veganism is perfect, just that in relation to animal suffering and environmental impact it's factually better than a meat-inclusive diet. That's pretty black and white in my book, the grey areas sit within veganism itself rather than being between the two diets. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:10 - Oct 15 with 4293 views | monytowbray |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:08 - Oct 15 by north_stand77 |
Sorry Factors, but that's a pretty daft comment.
Why have they been bullied? Why should there only be meat dishes on a menu?
We live in a diverse society, full of 'individuals', our likes and dislikes are not the same and that includes our taste buds.
There are only a couple of vegetarian restaurants that I am aware of in Suffolk. There are literally hundreds of eating places that sell meat. Fortunately most of those have woken up to the fact that there are far more vegetarians/vegans now and take it seriously by catering for them too. It's their business after all.
By your reckoning my other half and I wouldn't be able to eat out in the same restaurant together, one being a vegetarian and the other a meat eater! |
Facters is on the wind up as usual, take him with a pinch of salt! | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:11 - Oct 15 with 4289 views | J2BLUE |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:05 - Oct 15 by gordon |
Not sure discrimination is relevant - if my friends want to go paint-balling, and I want to go play golf, but I agree to go paintballing with them, I'm not discriminated against at the paint-balling because I can't play golf there. I just can't do it.
Either way I've not said anything about being happy for people to be discriminated against. |
Many places offer one fairly basic vegan option. I dread to think what the meat version would be if it was the other way round. Anyone who had a vegetarian restuarant because of moral beliefs would refuse to provide a meat option and the others would probably provide something cheap, basic and awful just to say they had the option as well. I doubt either Ryorry or I would ever think of ordering such a meal anyway and would probably prefer they didn't bother than use cheaply produced factory farmed meat. | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:15 - Oct 15 with 4271 views | Ryorry |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:11 - Oct 15 by J2BLUE |
Many places offer one fairly basic vegan option. I dread to think what the meat version would be if it was the other way round. Anyone who had a vegetarian restuarant because of moral beliefs would refuse to provide a meat option and the others would probably provide something cheap, basic and awful just to say they had the option as well. I doubt either Ryorry or I would ever think of ordering such a meal anyway and would probably prefer they didn't bother than use cheaply produced factory farmed meat. |
True - I must admit I hadn't quite thought that one through! | |
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| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:18 - Oct 15 with 4256 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 22:59 - Oct 15 by monytowbray |
Every time I've tried educating on here I've been met with resistance. But then I had a DM from Newcy saying he was gonna give it a go. As I said, I think you're even open to the idea or you're not no matter how the point is made. I myself struggle to sugarcoat my side of the debate because in reality it's a gruesome topic. |
I don't wish to be rude but why should you be trying to educate anyone on here and by what rights are you in a position to educate, it implies your views, moral compass are on a different level to everyone else. |  | | |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:22 - Oct 15 with 4242 views | gordon |
| Anyone at the Vegan fair at Portman Road on 23:05 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue |
Huge numbers of animals were killed during the clearing of vast swathes of the South American rainforest in order to produce soy*.
Nothing is black and white and I think this is key to most issues.
SB
*I know most soy is used to feed animals but it's also a staple of a lot of foods you likely eat. Just pointing out that nothing is black and white and some animals were likely killed to produce soy you have consumed. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 23:05]
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It might not be black and white, but the environmental benefits of reduced meat consumption are well accepted and documented by the scientific literature on the subject. 90%+ (that's a conservative estimate) that's consumed in Europe is grown to feed animals. The cycle of rainforest destruction in South America is that when roads go through an area first subsistence farmers come in clearing small areas, then larger cattle ranchers are able to move in burning larger areas, and then years later the massive soy producers are able to get machinery in to farm intensively. | | | |
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