| Were bomber command war criminals 21:29 - Jun 24 with 12534 views | gtsb |
BBC4 now. Time watch on WW2. Showed a programme from the 70's/early 80's where a panel, including Germans, were debating this. The German argument was that civilians were killed and one British pilot who took part in the raid said that the civilians of Dresden were the people making the armaments that were killing allied soldiers and civilians so the raids were legitimate. Another commentator has said that WW2 was total war so it was legitimate. I can understand the views of those who witnessed or took part in it though and can understand the fors and against. It's fascinating that the debate still rages on today. |  | | |  |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 15:19 - Jun 25 with 5065 views | Guthrum |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:33 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Gubbins
Try and have a read of 'Churchill's Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare', even if you disagree with every single word of it you should still enjoy a damn good set of tales of derring-do. Harry Ree is my new World War II hero. |
Actually gave his name to a slang term: "Gubbins", meaning a collection of assorted (possibly quite random) but useful stuff, the bits you need to do/build something, or the parts which make it work. |  |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:04 - Jun 25 with 5037 views | pickles110564 |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 09:00 - Jun 25 by WeWereZombies |
But isn't the gist of this conversation a judgement of what is allowable under jus in bello? Reducing the matter to tit for tat demeans our War Cabinet. |
Plus you all forget the money we are owed when Germany bombed our country yet you all want to pay a BREXIT fee to them! |  | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:06 - Jun 25 with 5034 views | noggin |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:04 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Plus you all forget the money we are owed when Germany bombed our country yet you all want to pay a BREXIT fee to them! |
lol |  |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:17 - Jun 25 with 5025 views | jeera |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:04 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Plus you all forget the money we are owed when Germany bombed our country yet you all want to pay a BREXIT fee to them! |
Do you mind explaining this to people like me who don't quite understand how this works?
I am not suggesting you are wrong, I just wanna know some details. |  |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 with 5003 views | pickles110564 |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:17 - Jun 25 by jeera |
Do you mind explaining this to people like me who don't quite understand how this works?
I am not suggesting you are wrong, I just wanna know some details. |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. | | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:55 - Jun 25 with 4996 views | WeWereZombies |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 19:04 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Plus you all forget the money we are owed when Germany bombed our country yet you all want to pay a BREXIT fee to them! |
We did get patents, copyrights and a quarter of West Germany for military use for a few decades. However, some money would have been nice - especially as they seemed to get back on their feet a bit quicker than we did. Would rather be in the tent they are p1ssing out of than underneath the shower outside the tent etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations |  |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 21:02 - Jun 25 with 4985 views | noggin |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. |
How much do we owe all the countries we ravaged and pillaged over the years? Or was that just bantz? [Post edited 25 Jun 2018 21:02]
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 21:06 - Jun 25 with 4974 views | jeera |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. |
And this recent event has what to do with modern life?
Can you see how these attitudes just continue to damage lives throughout generations for no reason other than...
Whatever the reasoning is. I can't think of much.
I'm not sure that 'we' are about to pay Germany directly anything, but I may be wrong. | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 05:22 - Jun 26 with 4900 views | Benters2 |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 21:02 - Jun 25 by noggin |
How much do we owe all the countries we ravaged and pillaged over the years? Or was that just bantz? [Post edited 25 Jun 2018 21:02]
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In that case,are we still owed a few quid from the Romans? |  | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 05:42 - Jun 26 with 4895 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 05:22 - Jun 26 by Benters2 |
In that case,are we still owed a few quid from the Romans? |
Who are this "we" you talk of? |  |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 06:34 - Jun 26 with 4880 views | Benters2 |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. |
Yeah but they are great ! | | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 06:34 - Jun 26 with 4881 views | imsureazzure |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 05:22 - Jun 26 by Benters2 |
In that case,are we still owed a few quid from the Romans? |
And when are the Barbary slave traders going to apologise blah blah blah. |  | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 06:35 - Jun 26 with 4879 views | Benters2 |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 05:42 - Jun 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Who are this "we" you talk of? |
I thought we were talking about England and Germany? | | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 07:34 - Jun 26 with 4856 views | WeWereZombies |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 05:22 - Jun 26 by Benters2 |
In that case,are we still owed a few quid from the Romans? |
Exactly, what did the Romans ever do for us? | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:04 - Jun 26 with 4838 views | artsbossbeard |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. |
Pickles, you're now my favourite TWTD poster.
Don't ever change, man. Don't ever change.
*Also, without clicking on the +1 vote, I know who it is. Physic, me. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:21 - Jun 26 with 4823 views | Swailsey |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. |
*wipes eyes in disbelief* |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:31 - Jun 26 with 4812 views | Keno |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 20:43 - Jun 25 by pickles110564 |
Germany started the war, bombed our country, destroyed our building and infrastructure which we wiped out their debt which it would be over a trillion pounds now to rebuild our great nation. |
well if you are looking at it that then you have to face a few facts.
WW2 was by and large the result of the unfair settlement imposed on Germany after ww1 so you could argue WW2 was the fault of the ww1 allies
Then again the causes of ww1 arose from a range of historical factors, the aftermath of the Franco-prussion war leading to anglo French fear of the growth of Germany but perhaps more importantly the tension with the Balkans as the Hapsburg empire started to collaspe
The Hapsburg of course had been supported and propped up over the years by the Western European powers to as a barrier against the Ottomans who had invaded Europe on several occasions
The Ottomans were of course muslims
so basically its all the muslims fault
there that made it clear for you? [Post edited 26 Jun 2018 8:32]
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:46 - Jun 26 with 4802 views | noggin |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:31 - Jun 26 by Keno |
well if you are looking at it that then you have to face a few facts.
WW2 was by and large the result of the unfair settlement imposed on Germany after ww1 so you could argue WW2 was the fault of the ww1 allies
Then again the causes of ww1 arose from a range of historical factors, the aftermath of the Franco-prussion war leading to anglo French fear of the growth of Germany but perhaps more importantly the tension with the Balkans as the Hapsburg empire started to collaspe
The Hapsburg of course had been supported and propped up over the years by the Western European powers to as a barrier against the Ottomans who had invaded Europe on several occasions
The Ottomans were of course muslims
so basically its all the muslims fault
there that made it clear for you? [Post edited 26 Jun 2018 8:32]
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"so basically its all the muslims fault"
Oooh, that'll make benters snigger. | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:50 - Jun 26 with 4792 views | artsbossbeard |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 08:46 - Jun 26 by noggin |
"so basically its all the muslims fault"
Oooh, that'll make benters snigger. |
You spelt aroused wrong. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 09:48 - Jun 26 with 4752 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 06:35 - Jun 26 by Benters2 |
I thought we were talking about England and Germany? |
I think you'll find 'England' was made up of several tribes in Roman times. It wasn't one thing. | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 09:57 - Jun 26 with 4743 views | noggin |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 09:48 - Jun 26 by BrixtonBlue |
I think you'll find 'England' was made up of several tribes in Roman times. It wasn't one thing. |
I believe there was a very large settlement on Bentley Green, that still resides there to this day. | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 14:34 - Jun 26 with 4671 views | WeWereZombies |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 09:48 - Jun 26 by BrixtonBlue |
I think you'll find 'England' was made up of several tribes in Roman times. It wasn't one thing. |
Wait a minute, it was us Iceni in the north of the county (if I take my family tree back far enough) who were proper English, those Trino Vantes in the south of Suffolk and in further afield places like Bentley had their tongues so far up the Roman's backsides... | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 14:46 - Jun 26 with 4656 views | Keno |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 14:34 - Jun 26 by WeWereZombies |
Wait a minute, it was us Iceni in the north of the county (if I take my family tree back far enough) who were proper English, those Trino Vantes in the south of Suffolk and in further afield places like Bentley had their tongues so far up the Roman's backsides... |
Iceni my arse
but a bunch from Norfolk who dressed in funny outfits, had a 'thing' for their sisters and only ever participated in wars but never actually won anything | |
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| Were bomber command war criminals on 14:47 - Jun 26 with 4656 views | theblueginger |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 22:10 - Jun 24 by MattinLondon |
Pardon my ignorance but at the time were the raids controversial? |
Not at all they were seen as justice for the Blitz.
For those interested, I did my Dissertation for my Masters on the American perspective of Strategic Bombing Campaign against Germany. If anyone would like a read through, let me know. | | | |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 14:52 - Jun 26 with 4647 views | theblueginger |
| Were bomber command war criminals on 10:19 - Jun 25 by Guthrum |
Dresden was also a major strategic transport hub at the junction between the northern and southern sections of the German Eastern Front, a regional administrative capital, industrial centre and defended city which held out until the very end of the war.
All bombing raids on cities (by both sides) were intended to break the spirit of the civilian population and inhibit their ability to support the war effort through industrial work. Coventry had a major concentration of motor factories, Hamburg a large port and so on.
Also, figures such as that for civilian deaths caused by the Dresden raid are highly questionable, being based largely on German propaganda of the time. Modern assessments give numbers closer to 20,000. |
The issue with Dresden at the time, was the city was filled with a large concentration of refugees fleeing from the advancing Soviets to the east, so the exact numbers of dead will never be known.
The bombing was worsened by the fact the Americans bombed during the day, and Bomber Command at night-often the 2 Allies worked interdependently from each other, whereas in this case there was no respite for those below. | | | |
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