| The Labour party.... 08:11 - Sep 11 with 37774 views | itfcjoe |
....I made this mkistake of falling down the Labour rabbit hole on Social Media, it is like rubber necking at an accident site. Absolute carnage on there.
So much in-fighting and disagreements and re-writing of history.
Clair achieved nothing - Sure Start was Tessa Jowell, Minimum Wage was Gordon Brown, etc..............but of course everything bad was solely down to Blair.
Any MP who speaks out about Corbyn or anti-semitism they are trying to get deselected - including someone who won Canterbury for first time (by 186 votes) in forever - although this was all down to Momentum's campaigning and not the candidate at all of course.
Chuka has said that the likes of McDonnell need to 'call off the dogs', you know that common saying.....apparently it means he has called members out as actual dogs. You couldn't make it up.
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious, how do they expect to win an election? All they talk about is how many members they now have as though that is what will win it for them.
I don't understand why being centrist has become such a bad thing, surely most people are or am I just wrong? The nutters I see on both sides of the divide can't be representative of normal people surely? Why don't people want what was New Labour, don't they realise compromises had to be made by likes of Blair and Brown to push through all the reform they did for the poorest people in the country?
It's all very student politics out there, and if there was a GE called now, the Tory party would increase their majority. |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 10:40 - Sep 13 with 3682 views | No9 |
| The Labour party.... on 09:58 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
Given the dead give double the money than live members to the Tory Party, democracy may be an issue...
Wyrmwood is on Film 4. Might give them some ideas |
When so much money comes into the Conservative party from non voter sources it does raise the question as to whether or not the party has any base in democracy.
As the Conservative party is now reputed to be one quarter (or less) the size of labour it also begs the qustion as to whether or not they have any right to stand at elections as a major party failing to tell the public what they represent & who fuds them
Time to change British politics. |  | | |
| The Labour party.... on 11:03 - Sep 13 with 3671 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 10:40 - Sep 13 by No9 |
When so much money comes into the Conservative party from non voter sources it does raise the question as to whether or not the party has any base in democracy.
As the Conservative party is now reputed to be one quarter (or less) the size of labour it also begs the qustion as to whether or not they have any right to stand at elections as a major party failing to tell the public what they represent & who fuds them
Time to change British politics. |
Agreed! It was certainly also a problem with New Labour. Reliance on big donors can only corrupt your policy making processes. There needs to be even greater transparency and discussion over every aspect of party funding. |  | | |
| The Labour party.... on 11:03 - Sep 13 with 3667 views | StokieBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 10:34 - Sep 13 by BrixtonBlue |
Given that you've said you don't understand what he's saying a lot of the time, why are you still engaging?
I haven't seen him resorting to insults. I've seen him put up with a lot of sh!t from some on this thread and stay calm despite a lot of provocation.
It's funny (and you do this a lot) that you slate him a fair bit in that first para but then end with "honestly don't want a fight"! It's like, 'I'm gonna get my digs in but I'll be polite about it so it doesn't come back to me'.
You say he's condescending - but read back what you've just said to him! |
I've not said I don't understand him, he's claimed that. Perhaps go back and read the thread? You did this the other day with my response to callis as well.
"I haven't seen him resorting to insults. I've seen him put up with a lot of sh!t from some on this thread and stay calm despite a lot of provocation. "
I would argue that most posts starts with an insult if it's someone who disagrees with him. Guess it's a matte of opinion but you do tend to give people you agree with far more leeway.
"It's funny (and you do this a lot) that you slate him a fair bit in that first para but then end with "honestly don't want a fight"! It's like, 'I'm gonna get my digs in but I'll be polite about it so it doesn't come back to me'. "
I've said he might feel the same about me and that's fine and he can highlight that in his response. However I am not the one defending a party or policies on here.
It's a genuine question which I'm interested to hear the answer on. It's not insulting or looking for a fight, I want to understand his mindset. I can't see how his postings on here thus far are helping Labour.
I honestly don't know why you jumped in, it's almost like you couldn't wait to start your daily fight.
SB [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 11:09]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:05 - Sep 13 with 3659 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 10:32 - Sep 13 by No9 |
do you have a link to the full interview?
Paul Mason has some interesting theories, it would be of interst to listen to all of this conversation |
Afraid not. Just got that snippet as a means to promote what McDonnell is doing as he searches for more radical manifesto idea. | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 11:16 - Sep 13 with 3630 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 11:03 - Sep 13 by StokieBlue |
I've not said I don't understand him, he's claimed that. Perhaps go back and read the thread? You did this the other day with my response to callis as well.
"I haven't seen him resorting to insults. I've seen him put up with a lot of sh!t from some on this thread and stay calm despite a lot of provocation. "
I would argue that most posts starts with an insult if it's someone who disagrees with him. Guess it's a matte of opinion but you do tend to give people you agree with far more leeway.
"It's funny (and you do this a lot) that you slate him a fair bit in that first para but then end with "honestly don't want a fight"! It's like, 'I'm gonna get my digs in but I'll be polite about it so it doesn't come back to me'. "
I've said he might feel the same about me and that's fine and he can highlight that in his response. However I am not the one defending a party or policies on here.
It's a genuine question which I'm interested to hear the answer on. It's not insulting or looking for a fight, I want to understand his mindset. I can't see how his postings on here thus far are helping Labour.
I honestly don't know why you jumped in, it's almost like you couldn't wait to start your daily fight.
SB [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 11:09]
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You've said about him using long words and obfuscating. Is that not you saying what he posts isn't clear/is hard to understand?
I think if you follow the thread he's quite diplomatic for the most part then after extreme provocation a few snidey comments started slipping out but it's certainly not abuse.
I've jumped in because it's a public forum and I see you giving someone's views I agree with sh!t. How is that difficult to understand?
You talk about condescension - look back at some of the stuff you've posted to him. I could write a long list of condescending lines you've posted to him.
I'm not starting a fight I'm offering balance. You don't like being challenged (which is, admittedly, a lot of my so called fights start - people post stuff and expect to get away with it and not be challenged).
Try to forget who's making these points and posting stuff about Dolly wanting a fight and deal with the actual content. It's not personal and it's not looking for a fight. I'm just responding to what you've posted to him. |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:17 - Sep 13 with 3618 views | No9 |
| The Labour party.... on 11:03 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
Agreed! It was certainly also a problem with New Labour. Reliance on big donors can only corrupt your policy making processes. There needs to be even greater transparency and discussion over every aspect of party funding. |
Eventually all politicians become part of the establishment
That is probably why the media are concentrating on Mr Corbyn = to see if he also turns? | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 11:24 - Sep 13 with 3606 views | StokieBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 11:16 - Sep 13 by BrixtonBlue |
You've said about him using long words and obfuscating. Is that not you saying what he posts isn't clear/is hard to understand?
I think if you follow the thread he's quite diplomatic for the most part then after extreme provocation a few snidey comments started slipping out but it's certainly not abuse.
I've jumped in because it's a public forum and I see you giving someone's views I agree with sh!t. How is that difficult to understand?
You talk about condescension - look back at some of the stuff you've posted to him. I could write a long list of condescending lines you've posted to him.
I'm not starting a fight I'm offering balance. You don't like being challenged (which is, admittedly, a lot of my so called fights start - people post stuff and expect to get away with it and not be challenged).
Try to forget who's making these points and posting stuff about Dolly wanting a fight and deal with the actual content. It's not personal and it's not looking for a fight. I'm just responding to what you've posted to him. |
The thing is Dolly, it does just look like you wanting a fight but if you say it's not then that's fine. It's like the monkeys yesterday, you were wrong, you wouldn't admit it, so you go down a semantic rabbit hole with about ten posters until everyone gave up.
I genuinely wanted to hear his thoughts - I don't think he's helping the cause, I wanted to know if that was even his aim.
I certainly don't want to spend the day going round in circles with you so I hope you enjoy your day and hope the book writing goes well.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:40 - Sep 13 with 3584 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 11:17 - Sep 13 by No9 |
Eventually all politicians become part of the establishment
That is probably why the media are concentrating on Mr Corbyn = to see if he also turns? |
I can't see it myself. Even if he caved (and the pressure he's been under for the last 3 years suggests he won't), it will soon be too late. Labour's democracy will shift the emphasis away from the central machine. Given the unpopularity of the policies falsely masquerading as centrist, I also can't see them taking over the party again.
Of course I could be wrong. I originally thought, for example, that the Chicken Coup was going to work (and the original Labour Left objective of demonstrating continued relevance was going to be the only legacy) | | | |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:11 - Sep 13 with 3552 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 11:24 - Sep 13 by StokieBlue |
The thing is Dolly, it does just look like you wanting a fight but if you say it's not then that's fine. It's like the monkeys yesterday, you were wrong, you wouldn't admit it, so you go down a semantic rabbit hole with about ten posters until everyone gave up.
I genuinely wanted to hear his thoughts - I don't think he's helping the cause, I wanted to know if that was even his aim.
I certainly don't want to spend the day going round in circles with you so I hope you enjoy your day and hope the book writing goes well.
SB |
I wasn't wrong about the monkeys. I proved the analogy doesn't work by the fact that two people had to remove them to explain it!
Maybe I'm just ahead of my time  | |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:59 - Sep 13 with 3505 views | No9 |
| The Labour party.... on 11:40 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
I can't see it myself. Even if he caved (and the pressure he's been under for the last 3 years suggests he won't), it will soon be too late. Labour's democracy will shift the emphasis away from the central machine. Given the unpopularity of the policies falsely masquerading as centrist, I also can't see them taking over the party again.
Of course I could be wrong. I originally thought, for example, that the Chicken Coup was going to work (and the original Labour Left objective of demonstrating continued relevance was going to be the only legacy) |
There are those in labour who would like to become part of the establishment
You are probably right about Corbyn whihc is why the RW media & politico's are spending so muc time trying to discredit him while ignoring more important issues | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 13:05 - Sep 13 with 3492 views | jimmyvet |
| The Labour party.... on 11:03 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
Agreed! It was certainly also a problem with New Labour. Reliance on big donors can only corrupt your policy making processes. There needs to be even greater transparency and discussion over every aspect of party funding. |
What a load of tosh the Labour Party has grown in size mainly because of all the extreme left wing commies and Marxists who were kicked out when Labour were a party able to govern and are now welcomed back into the fold with open arms by Corbyn and co, no other reason at all. | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 13:12 - Sep 13 with 3466 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Labour party.... on 12:11 - Sep 13 by BrixtonBlue |
I wasn't wrong about the monkeys. I proved the analogy doesn't work by the fact that two people had to remove them to explain it!
Maybe I'm just ahead of my time |
The monkeys were not removed, they took the last train to Clarksville. |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 13:18 - Sep 13 with 3450 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 13:05 - Sep 13 by jimmyvet |
What a load of tosh the Labour Party has grown in size mainly because of all the extreme left wing commies and Marxists who were kicked out when Labour were a party able to govern and are now welcomed back into the fold with open arms by Corbyn and co, no other reason at all. |
There's over a half million 'commies and Marxists' in Britain prepared to join a party? Wow, I didn't realise Britain was so revolutionary. Thanks for the heads up! [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 13:21]
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| The Labour party.... on 13:22 - Sep 13 with 3434 views | jimmyvet |
| The Labour party.... on 13:18 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
There's over a half million 'commies and Marxists' in Britain prepared to join a party? Wow, I didn't realise Britain was so revolutionary. Thanks for the heads up! [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 13:21]
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probably about right less than 1% of the population holding extreme views on the hard left of politics wouldn't be out of place.... | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 13:23 - Sep 13 with 3430 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 13:18 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
There's over a half million 'commies and Marxists' in Britain prepared to join a party? Wow, I didn't realise Britain was so revolutionary. Thanks for the heads up! [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 13:21]
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Which one am I, a Commie or a Marxist? I'm not really sure. | |
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| The Labour party.... on 13:28 - Sep 13 with 3410 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 13:22 - Sep 13 by jimmyvet |
probably about right less than 1% of the population holding extreme views on the hard left of politics wouldn't be out of place.... |
So did all the extremists that exist in Britain join the Labour Party? They seem awfully disciplined!
Why do you think Labour's manifesto is so moderate? Are they just trying to be sneaky? Be all moderate and then, when in office, nationalise all land and announce that the Real Diggers were right all along? Perhaps, given Anglia's role in the Peasants Revolt, reward Col U and rename them Red Star? [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 13:28]
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| The Labour party.... on 13:34 - Sep 13 with 3395 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 13:23 - Sep 13 by BrixtonBlue |
Which one am I, a Commie or a Marxist? I'm not really sure. |
Difficult one! Folk are subtle nowadays. Used to be simple. Wear a Crass t-shirt and you're an anarchist. Add in out-of-fashion jeans, you're a commie. Add NHS glasses and you're a Marxist. Now?
Bloke servicing my boiler reads the Morning Star. Perhaps they're infiltrating all key services before the revolution hits? | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 13:42 - Sep 13 with 3371 views | No9 |
| The Labour party.... on 13:22 - Sep 13 by jimmyvet |
probably about right less than 1% of the population holding extreme views on the hard left of politics wouldn't be out of place.... |
Hard left of politics - in the UK?
Where do you live | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 13:51 - Sep 13 with 3358 views | ElGuaje4 |
Maybe centrism is a bad thing because centrism = deregulation, privatisation and in particular cuts and austerity = hits the most vulnerable hardest with a non existent safety net = death. See food bank increase, homelessness increase, suicide increase and Grenfell during the age of austerity.
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| The Labour party.... on 14:07 - Sep 13 with 3332 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 13:42 - Sep 13 by No9 |
Hard left of politics - in the UK?
Where do you live |
Anti-frackers have repeatedly been called extremists. Best stay away from the countryside! Hot bed of revolutionary types, so it is.
And Tooting of course. That place has form [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 14:08]
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| The Labour party.... on 14:49 - Sep 13 with 3291 views | WeWereZombies |
| The Labour party.... on 13:22 - Sep 13 by jimmyvet |
probably about right less than 1% of the population holding extreme views on the hard left of politics wouldn't be out of place.... |
That would be under six hundred thousand, not one and a half million. | |
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| The Labour party.... on 14:51 - Sep 13 with 3288 views | No9 |
| The Labour party.... on 14:07 - Sep 13 by Gromheort |
Anti-frackers have repeatedly been called extremists. Best stay away from the countryside! Hot bed of revolutionary types, so it is.
And Tooting of course. That place has form [Post edited 13 Sep 2018 14:08]
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Not as serious as people who support fracking but don't understand the risks & don't want to | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 16:37 - Sep 13 with 3237 views | monytowbray |
| The Labour party.... on 11:16 - Sep 13 by BrixtonBlue |
You've said about him using long words and obfuscating. Is that not you saying what he posts isn't clear/is hard to understand?
I think if you follow the thread he's quite diplomatic for the most part then after extreme provocation a few snidey comments started slipping out but it's certainly not abuse.
I've jumped in because it's a public forum and I see you giving someone's views I agree with sh!t. How is that difficult to understand?
You talk about condescension - look back at some of the stuff you've posted to him. I could write a long list of condescending lines you've posted to him.
I'm not starting a fight I'm offering balance. You don't like being challenged (which is, admittedly, a lot of my so called fights start - people post stuff and expect to get away with it and not be challenged).
Try to forget who's making these points and posting stuff about Dolly wanting a fight and deal with the actual content. It's not personal and it's not looking for a fight. I'm just responding to what you've posted to him. |
I've div'ed SB again but I can guess what he's doing. The usual condescending and rude dismissal of others, mixed with personal jibes, because they won't bend over backwards to meet in the middle over something that really doesn't need a middle ground? Am I right Dolly?
Imagine how great he'd be if he argued against actual racists, homophobes, sexists and regressive people rather than sitting on the fence telling the left how amazingly impartial and enlightened he is as a centralist?
Here's some memes to summarise this thread.
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| The Labour party.... on 17:38 - Sep 13 with 3165 views | itfcjoe |
| The Labour party.... on 16:37 - Sep 13 by monytowbray |
I've div'ed SB again but I can guess what he's doing. The usual condescending and rude dismissal of others, mixed with personal jibes, because they won't bend over backwards to meet in the middle over something that really doesn't need a middle ground? Am I right Dolly?
Imagine how great he'd be if he argued against actual racists, homophobes, sexists and regressive people rather than sitting on the fence telling the left how amazingly impartial and enlightened he is as a centralist?
Here's some memes to summarise this thread.
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You are just an absolute weapon | |
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